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Old 05-26-2013, 12:32 PM   #1036
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Originally Posted by maiapapaya View Post
Yes, a big freakin' 'IF' indeed! If the speculation is true that TPB look at FP+ as a means to control the masses, who goes where when (which means lots of data manipulation), along with the RDIF, the use of multiple platforms (phone aps, website, in-park equipment ...) the potential for technical issues seems massive! I'm sure Disney always thinks they are capable. But as an example, from what I've heard - don't know from personal experience because non-US guests can't even access the new website yet - it's been glitchy as heck, some recent FP testing made the SB lines a nightmare, the RDIF tests in the shops weren't problem-free etc. My confidence isn't high for FP+. Sometimes high tech seems so cool and cutting edge. Clearly the temptation was too great for TPTB. But I wonder if they are just trying to make it too complex.

I just think there could have been much better ways to compete with the other Orlando attractions.
This was my point. If they can't even get their WEBSITE to work correctly and consistently, HOW IN THE WORLD are they going to manage something as HUGE as FP+???? If you don't even have the basics down, you can't jump to the big stuff. For an example, the Disneyworld site is down AGAIN TODAY!!! Couldn't make an ADR if I WANTED to do so!!! That's JUST NOT GONNA WORK for all this new stuff they want to do. Work out the bugs in the stuff you've GOT first. THEN think about expanding!!! Its very simple.
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Old 05-26-2013, 01:21 PM   #1037
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Originally Posted by joshsmom View Post
This was my point. If they can't even get their WEBSITE to work correctly and consistently, HOW IN THE WORLD are they going to manage something as HUGE as FP+???? If you don't even have the basics down, you can't jump to the big stuff. For an example, the Disneyworld site is down AGAIN TODAY!!! Couldn't make an ADR if I WANTED to do so!!! That's JUST NOT GONNA WORK for all this new stuff they want to do. Work out the bugs in the stuff you've GOT first. THEN think about expanding!!! Its very simple.
They would probably start small, get that right, move on... etc etc. If it were me, I would...

1) First, convert park entry to rfid. Make sure there are no bugs in the system.
2) Work on the RFID payments with RFID tickets and bands. Ensure Magic Band has no issues with room entry.
3) Ensure Wifi is as good as reasonably possible.
4) Work on the app for a while and make sure it has no bugs and works on all platforms. Ensure both the app and the servers running it can handle a huge amount of traffic and still function well.
5) Install Kiosks. Make sure there are enough. Make sure they are simple to use, easy to fix and have spares ready just in case. Use a small test group to see how long people take to navigate them and see how many people need.
6) Launch a virtual test first of new distributions of FP+ with larger and larger test groups. What are the results of this virtual test, can the parks handle a sudden surge in numbers, can fastpass allocation be changed in an adequate amount of time?
7) Launch a small but significant actual test with a limited number of people but full access to all aspects of the system. This brings all of these systems together. Observe the results. If things go wrong, scale back introduction of the full system till these have been worked out.
8) Then use a larger test, say all Deluxe guests. Again, observe results, can the system handle the pressure?
9) Have all onsite guests using it for a few weeks. If that works, expand to offsite guests.
10) Finally, remove current paper FP machines.

Seems sensible to me, I would hope Disney are doing something like this, possibly even more carefully.

I know some of those steps are part of their plan already, but it's the timescale that we don't know. How long will they allocate to each step? How many steps have they done? We are already on the 5th month of the year and they haven't even gotten round to anything more than a small scale limited test, without access to much of the system.

If they are trying to fix issues, they must be some big issues...
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Old 05-26-2013, 01:36 PM   #1038
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Originally Posted by Squidgyness View Post
They would probably start small, get that right, move on... etc etc. If it were me, I would...

1) First, convert park entry to rfid. Make sure there are no bugs in the system.
2) Work on the RFID payments with RFID tickets and bands. Ensure Magic Band has no issues with room entry.
3) Ensure Wifi is as good as reasonably possible.
4) Work on the app for a while and make sure it has no bugs and works on all platforms. Ensure both the app and the servers running it can handle a huge amount of traffic and still function well.
5) Install Kiosks. Make sure there are enough. Make sure they are simple to use, easy to fix and have spares ready just in case. Use a small test group to see how long people take to navigate them and see how many people need.
6) Launch a virtual test first of new distributions of FP+ with larger and larger test groups. What are the results of this virtual test, can the parks handle a sudden surge in numbers, can fastpass allocation be changed in an adequate amount of time?
7) Launch a small but significant actual test with a limited number of people but full access to all aspects of the system. This brings all of these systems together. Observe the results. If things go wrong, scale back introduction of the full system till these have been worked out.
8) Then use a larger test, say all Deluxe guests. Again, observe results, can the system handle the pressure?
9) Have all onsite guests using it for a few weeks. If that works, expand to offsite guests.
10) Finally, remove current paper FP machines.

Seems sensible to me, I would hope Disney are doing something like this, possibly even more carefully.

I know some of those steps are part of their plan already, but it's the timescale that we don't know. How long will they allocate to each step? How many steps have they done? We are already on the 5th month of the year and they haven't even gotten round to anything more than a small scale limited test, without access to much of the system.

If they are trying to fix issues, they must be some big issues...
That makes WAY too much sense.

I have it pictured in my mind that someone says "I want this completely rolled out by Christmas" and people start going into overdrive, skipping steps to make the new, less than realistic deadline.

I'd like to hope that a big successful company like Disney would resist such reactionary tactics, but then I see how things have gone with the new website rollout and wonder......

I used to work for one of the major health insurance companies. One would like to think there was a rational process where the underwriters would evaluate claims, runout, overhead, etc and calculate next year's rates. But often in high profile cases, we would go to underwriting and say "this is the rate I really need to make this sell". Then underwriting would work backwards to get there. I could totally see a company working from a declaration of what they want from a marketing perspective and backwards to get there.

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Old 05-26-2013, 01:46 PM   #1039
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Originally Posted by mom2rtk View Post
That makes WAY too much sense.

I have it pictured in my mind that someone says "I want this completely rolled out by Christmas" and people start going into overdrive, skipping steps to make the new, less than realistic deadline.

I'd like to hope that a big successful company like Disney would resist such reactionary tactics, but then I see how things have gone with the new website rollout and wonder......
Well since they can't even seem to get the website working properly how can they expect to get all the rest of it up & running smoothly in a reasonable amount of time?! I agree that they could hit a point when they just push to get it rolled out and the guests will have to deal with the mess, kind of how new computer programs get rolled out before the developers properly trouble shoot everything (letting the consumer do the beta-testing)
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Old 05-26-2013, 01:49 PM   #1040
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Originally Posted by mom2rtk View Post
That makes WAY too much sense.

I have it pictured in my mind that someone says "I want this completely rolled out by Christmas" and people start going into overdrive, skipping steps to make the new, less than realistic deadline.

I'd like to hope that a big successful company like Disney would resist such reactionary tactics, but then I see how things have gone with the new website rollout and wonder......
Yes, companies don't always make the wisest decisions in reaction.

Another recent example of this: Take Microsoft. I know most on here don't know the workings of video game consoles, but I'll be brief.

Sony effectively got their rival product into the public eye first, though they didn't give too much away.

In an attempt to react, Microsoft made some poor decisions in retrospect.

Perhaps the key change: They chose to charge people extra to play second hand games on their system.

A compromise, they would get money from that second sale, people would still be able to buy second hand games.

Microsoft execs I imagine sat back and smiled contentedly. Surely this would please everyone, people would get over the extra charge. Well, it all went pear shaped fast. People started saying what if I borrow a game from a friend, I don't like the extra charge, Sony don't do this, and so on... Massive backlash.

Just one example from recent times of a huge company reacting to a competitor and completely misjudging the market. And it involves technology too.. one of the most volatile areas of industry, and the hardest to make plans for the future in.

Disney are taking a massive, and in my opinion dangerous, risk with this. I calculate the chances of it paying off without a hitch are minimal. The most i'm daring to hope for is it not affecting too many people if something doesn't go as it should.
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Old 05-26-2013, 01:56 PM   #1041
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Originally Posted by maiapapaya View Post
Well since they can't even seem to get the website working properly how can they expect to get all the rest of it up & running smoothly in a reasonable amount of time?! I agree that they could hit a point when they just push to get it rolled out and the guests will have to deal with the mess, kind of how new computer programs get rolled out before the developers properly trouble shoot everything (letting the consumer do the beta-testing)
Maybe that's why the FP+ updates/rollouts have slowed down.
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Old 05-26-2013, 02:04 PM   #1042
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I haven't weighed in on this thread in a while, but I have been diligently reading along. So here we go...

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Somewhere in this thread, I had asked about people scheduling 60 days (or however long) out and then NOT using their time slot for whatever reason (they decided to go to a different park, didn't want to ride then, etc). I know that Disney put CC holds on some ADRs because of no shows. How do you think they could control for FP+ no shows? Wouldn't that kind of defeat the purpose if people scheduled but then didn't show up? With the current system, I'm sure there's a certain percentage that don't use their FPs for whatever reason. Many times we just hand them to other families on our way out. That won't be possible with FP+. So would those slots just go unused??
The difference between an ADR going unused vs. a FP reservation going unused is $$$. Potentially (not always by any stretch) a CM working the host stand at 'Ohana could say to the first two families who walk up before dinner service starts and asks if they could wait for a table that they are free to wait but it could be an hour or more for a table. So two families stay, but all families after that are turned away. There's no other standby queue to pull people from if someone no-shows on an ADR. So that one empty table during dinner service costs Disney $XX.

Whereas with FP (or FP reservations), the place in line simply gets filled by the next FP person or someone from the standby line. It costs Disney absolutely nothing. Disney sees FPs as a courtesy to guests, nothing more.

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If it helps, we could all make some up for you.....



I have been encouraged that the lack of more kiosks in the parks yet is due to technical glitches slowing down (changing?????) the entire project. But I've also been afraid it could just be that they are working on them behind the scenes and could potentially just show up overnight.

As for the tickets, back when this discussion started in earnest, someone threw that idea out there (maybe bcrook even then???? I've lost track.) But it would be somewhat like airline tickets with dynamic pricing. I could TOTALLY see them doing that. But it saddens me as well. My only recourse in all of this has been to stick with trying to find the slowest time of the year I can stand the weather and going then, hoping any FP adjustments would have less impact. But I do think Disney's discount offerings have already shifted many of the peak crowds into those slower weeks. Add dynamic ticket pricing and it would undoubtedly shift even more. It's just starting to feel like a losing battle.
I'm feeling far more cynical that one night, Disney will simply unscrew half the current FP machines and plug in the new FP+ kiosks. Those machines and their wiring already had the infrastructure to connect to the park's mainframe (to lock people out until they were due for another FP).

At a Dine with an Imagineer lunch I attended in January, the Imagineer is a project manager for New Fantasyland. He oversaw Ariel's ride and Grotto before their opening and now is overseeing the 7 Dwarfs coaster. He had some really interesting tidbits about how the attractions were the first to have the RFID and next-generation system technology built right in. He happened to mention that as other attractions have gone down for refurb in the past 18 months, that same technology has been retrofitted into those attractions.

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I've had a feeling all along that's where they would head with the numbers. That it would be a moving target. I could be wrong, but if they go with dynamic pricing AND dynamic FP allocations, they are putting themselves dangerously close to complicating too much for the average visitor. And isn't that the visitor they seem to want to be helping?

They would do well to follow the KISS principle. "Keep it simple, stupid".
Can you imagine the ticket questions on these boards if they went to dynamic pricing? Instead of 10 threads a day asking if they can add days to their tickets, people will be asking "my current ticket is a C-stage ticket, but if I add a day to the beginning of the trip, will it bump it up to a B-stage ticket." Oy, poor Cheshire Figment.

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Originally Posted by joshsmom View Post
This was my point. If they can't even get their WEBSITE to work correctly and consistently, HOW IN THE WORLD are they going to manage something as HUGE as FP+???? If you don't even have the basics down, you can't jump to the big stuff. For an example, the Disneyworld site is down AGAIN TODAY!!! Couldn't make an ADR if I WANTED to do so!!! That's JUST NOT GONNA WORK for all this new stuff they want to do. Work out the bugs in the stuff you've GOT first. THEN think about expanding!!! Its very simple.
Fun Disney Web site story... In January, we had a pre-opening Akershaus ADR. I brought my confirmation number with me, as any good Disboarder would. And when we got to the International Gateway, we weren't on the early ADR list. But since I had my confirmation, they waved us through.

We got to the host desk at Akershaus and they couldn't find us in the system. The CM called over their supervisor and he took our confirmation number and began looking through the computer. Apparently, when he looked up the history of our confirmation number, he saw the date when I made the reservation and saw that the system canceled it about two months later. Not a CM cancelling it, simply the system doing it all on its own.

The supervisor apologized for the inconvenience and said this wasn't the first time he'd encountered this and it was supremely frustrating for the guests and the CMs. They had no problem fitting us in, but can you imagine if this system rolls out and just starts deleting random FP+ reservations from the system??!?

I'm also terrified of what is supposed to happen if the system goes down for whatever reason. What happens in the parks? How do people check their FP times? How do the CMs check people into the FP lines? Disney's track record with IT isn't good and yet they're putting all their eggs in the IT basket.
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Old 05-26-2013, 02:08 PM   #1043
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I'm also terrified of what is supposed to happen if the system goes down for whatever reason. What happens in the parks? t.

I would guess that it would standby-lines only, until the system is back up.
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Old 05-26-2013, 02:25 PM   #1044
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Can you imagine the ticket questions on these boards if they went to dynamic pricing? Instead of 10 threads a day asking if they can add days to their tickets, people will be asking "my current ticket is a C-stage ticket, but if I add a day to the beginning of the trip, will it bump it up to a B-stage ticket." Oy, poor Cheshire Figment.
Poor CF!



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Fun Disney Web site story... In January, we had a pre-opening Akershaus ADR. I brought my confirmation number with me, as any good Disboarder would. And when we got to the International Gateway, we weren't on the early ADR list. But since I had my confirmation, they waved us through.

We got to the host desk at Akershaus and they couldn't find us in the system. The CM called over their supervisor and he took our confirmation number and began looking through the computer. Apparently, when he looked up the history of our confirmation number, he saw the date when I made the reservation and saw that the system canceled it about two months later. Not a CM cancelling it, simply the system doing it all on its own.
Scary, but not the least bit surprising.

And I put dining and ride access in two completely distinct categories. I can put up with issues that might come up with lodging or dining. But ultimately I am there, and have already paid for access with my ticket....... to experience the attractions. Start chipping away at my access to those........ and we have a real problem.
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Old 05-26-2013, 02:28 PM   #1045
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Fun Disney Web site story... In January, we had a pre-opening Akershaus ADR. I brought my confirmation number with me, as any good Disboarder would. And when we got to the International Gateway, we weren't on the early ADR list. But since I had my confirmation, they waved us through.

We got to the host desk at Akershaus and they couldn't find us in the system. The CM called over their supervisor and he took our confirmation number and began looking through the computer. Apparently, when he looked up the history of our confirmation number, he saw the date when I made the reservation and saw that the system canceled it about two months later. Not a CM cancelling it, simply the system doing it all on its own.

The supervisor apologized for the inconvenience and said this wasn't the first time he'd encountered this and it was supremely frustrating for the guests and the CMs. They had no problem fitting us in, but can you imagine if this system rolls out and just starts deleting random FP+ reservations from the system??!?

I'm also terrified of what is supposed to happen if the system goes down for whatever reason. What happens in the parks? How do people check their FP times? How do the CMs check people into the FP lines? Disney's track record with IT isn't good and yet their putting all their eggs in the IT basket.
But with a FP+ we wouldn't even have a confirmation number (or would we) so if the system cancelling your FP+, you show up at HS in the afternoon after being at AK and find your FP+ for TSM is gone with no more to be had and a SB line of 2 hours! Those poor CMs that would have to deal with that family!
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Old 05-26-2013, 02:31 PM   #1046
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But with a FP+ we wouldn't even have a confirmation number (or would we) so if the system cancelling your FP+, you show up at HS in the afternoon after being at AK and find your FP+ for TSM is gone with no more to be had and a SB line of 2 hours! Those poor CMs that would have to deal with that family!
This is why I print-to-pdf every quote/customer service response/confirmation I have! Nothing can be denied
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Old 05-26-2013, 02:38 PM   #1047
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This is why I print-to-pdf every quote/customer service response/confirmation I have! Nothing can be denied
This is so not how I want to go on vacation... oy vey.

I'm only half kidding there
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Old 05-26-2013, 02:39 PM   #1048
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What makes this more amazing? Disney had purchased AVATAR, another huge franchise, just a year before, in September 2011. Directly lifted from the new york times "Groundbreaking was planned for 2013, with an expected opening three years later. Executives estimate the cost of the project to be about $500 million "
Just a clarification...Disney has not purchased Avatar. They have entered into an agreement with Cameron to license the property. Very different than Disney acquiring LucasFilm itself.

In fact, it's very similar to how Universal has Marvel in their park.

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Kiosks

Colour me stupid, I just had a thought.
Perhaps the reason we have not seen any 'physical new structures' hitting all the theme parks is because Disney intends to revamp the existing fast pass machines.

I have had this though because of something Doconeil said, that to change the interface of hardware is not too hard from a tech standpoint.

If you take that in conjunction with the conjecture that paper media is on the way out, then the current fp machines will be useless in a couple of years.

Perhaps they just intend to change say 50% of the fp machines over to fp+ magic kiosks. Serve both purposes for the temporary transition, and slowly phase out the old fp with the new fp+

It could be done easily I bet, but perhaps the IT people could weigh in on this idea.
I am an "IT people". I actually work as an IT consultant.

What is a strike against this is that they could have added RFID to the existing kiosks without interfering with the current magstripe reader...but they didn't. And given their apparent rush to convert the turnstiles - which they didn't need to do at all as it turns out since there are no MagicBands among the guests yet and the RFID cards could still be read in the old turnstiles - I would have expected them to do likewise to the FP kiosks - but they didn't.
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Old 05-26-2013, 02:39 PM   #1049
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This is why I print-to-pdf every quote/customer service response/confirmation I have! Nothing can be denied
Of course it can. Any CM making a response can make a mistake, and a mistake doesn't have to be honored.
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Old 05-26-2013, 02:42 PM   #1050
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can you imagine if this system rolls out and just starts deleting random FP+ reservations from the system??!?
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