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Old 05-25-2013, 06:02 PM   #931
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Old 05-25-2013, 06:05 PM   #932
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Originally Posted by AustinTink View Post

We will be driving over to Disney for three of our vacation days. I'm calling it our farewell tour, because I don't see us returning to WDW because of the new system. I can't even begin to list all the things I dislike about it, so I won't even try.

Um, why don't you try just listing one thing you dislike about the new system? You know, the system that hasn't even been rolled out yet that we've only received a very, very little accurate and definite information from Disney about?

If you're the type of person that likes to complain about things that haven't even happened to you yet, please do stay at Universal.
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Old 05-25-2013, 06:08 PM   #933
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Originally Posted by bcrook View Post
I think you have done nice work. Thanks for taking the time to do it.


When this is all said and done one of us will be right, but BOTH of us will claim to be right.
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Old 05-25-2013, 06:16 PM   #934
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Originally Posted by MichiganDVC View Post
Does anyone really think Disney is nervous about Universal?! A. They (Univ) can't really expand much more. B. Disney is an empire: toys, Mickey, movies, and the parks. Universal is a hodgepodge of unrelated movie rides and shows. I mean, if you asked for word association and you said the words "Disney World," what first things would come to mind? Mickey, castle, monorail, princess...
Now say "Universal Orlando:" Harry Potter.
That's it. I am not saying that people who go to Universal don't have anything else to go ther efore. I'm sure Universal fans could name 20 rides they love. I'm just saying as a brand, for someone who's thinking of traveling to the Orlando area and wants to go to the parks when they think Universal, what stands out? All they think of is Harry Potter. There's so much more in terms of brand the Disney offers it keeps people coming to their parks.

And either 2011, the Magic Kingdom alone had 17 million visitors. Universal Orlando and Islands of Adventure combined had 13 million visitors.

WDW total had 37 million visitors.

I really don't think that Universal and fear of Universal is driving anything the Disney does or is going to do.
I have asked this question before (never got a response) but how many unique customers visit the Universal Complex versus the WDW complex? That gap is decreasing quickly.

Here is my simplified logic: 37 million at Disney and counts the same people over and over. Most people visit all four parks. And I would guess that the MK averages two park days per person. So cut the 17 million in half and you get about 8.5 unique visitors a year. I don't have any idea how to figure in AP people. Frequent users would skew the number lower.

Last summer I spent 13 days at Disney. I went into park 10 days, so I counted 10 times in the attendance. My party of 15 all counted 10 times. At universal, I spent 1 day.

As a unique customer it was dead even.

Islands of adventure had about 8 million visitors (I will assume nearly everyone who visited universal also visited IoA).

The number of unique customers visiting each park is probably fairly close. Disney makes its money by keeping people involved for longer stays. This is what Universal is trying to grab, more days. They are doing it with cheaper rates, building more hotels, and adding new attractions.

Disney is tackling this problem by trying to get their customers to commit to their parks 60 days in advance with the fastpass + and bracelet that works like wallet with a giant hole in it.
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Old 05-25-2013, 06:18 PM   #935
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Originally Posted by Squidgyness View Post

How about universal (inc ioa) + seaworld (inc. Aquatica) + wet n wild, + Busch gardens? What would that total? Since they come under the same ticket (flexi ticket)

Isn't universals attendance going up? Which means they are taking at least some business away from disney. Not to mention disney losing ground in the key teen demographic IMO. And it is keen in these days of frugal living. Family vacations should include something for kids of all ages. If people leave teens behind, well that's still money disney has lost.
Technically, yes Universal's attendance is going up. So is world population. I'm looking at the ratio between people who just go to the Magic Kingdom and people who go to all of the Universal Parks. It is heavily favoring the Magic Kingdom and probably always will. Universal's attendance might be going up but their actual park size can't get any bigger. The amount of land that they only build on is finite and they've reached it, I believe.

And Busch Gardens is in Tampa, that's at least an hour and a half away. You really can't lump that in like Bush Gardens is actually taking anybody away from Disney World ever. People really just don't go to the Orlando area and not go to Disney World. But I'm sure that most of the people to go to Disney World do not also go to sea world or universal. In fact I would bet that other than Florida residents a very high percentage of people who go to Universal also go to Disney World on the same trip.

And finally, for the precious teen demographic: one thing I've learned from young cousins who are roughly ages 11 and 14 is that kids these ages are very overscheduled. They have 3 to 4 sports and teams that they have to travel with during every break and every season. They have so many events that they're involved in and I wonder if this just really isn't the time that families get to take long vacations anymore because their kids are so busy with all these extracurriculars. Me personally, 20 years ago, my family stopped taking our annual trips to Disney World probably because I had sports and jobs all summer and there just wasn't time for me to go anymore. I went every year at least from the time I was 2 til 14 years old and then start going again when I was in my 20s when I wasn't so busy anymore.

I think Disney has this one right: draw in the little kids who can experience the magic and for the rest of their lives every time they go to the park either as young adults or with their own kids they're going to feel like they're kids again! It's the nostalgia keep bringing them back. I have absolutely no nostalgia for Universal Studios, nor will I ever.
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Old 05-25-2013, 06:21 PM   #936
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Originally Posted by MichiganDVC View Post

Um, why don't you try just listing one thing you dislike about the new system? You know, the system that hasn't even been rolled out yet that we've only received a very, very little accurate and definite information from Disney about?

If you're the type of person that likes to complain about things that haven't even happened to you yet, please do stay at Universal.
Some confirmed things I don't like about the new system:

Booking rides in advance.
Three fastpass limit for this (not touching the issue of same day fastpasses)
The expansion of fastpass attractions (without going into specifics.)
One fastpass per ride a day, no repeat riding of headliners using fastpasses in the same day

Things we can reasonably infer from recent tests:

Counter service prebooking

That's four definite and one probable dislikes right off the bat, and pretty big ones too. Most of all I dislike the fundamental basis of this system, booking rides in advance.

You can say that's selfish, but you can't say I only dislike things that aren't confirmed by disney in their terms and conditions or in the official announcement post, or by physical observation.

--------

"Disney is tackling this problem by trying to get their customers to commit to their parks 60 days in advance with the fastpass + and bracelet that works like wallet with a giant hole in it."

Agree. This is where I think corporate thinking diverged from what I want from disney.
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Old 05-25-2013, 06:23 PM   #937
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Originally Posted by fflmaster View Post


When this is all said and done one of us will be right, but BOTH of us will claim to be right.
I will own up. There are about a million posts from me on this topic, there will be nowhere to hide when this whole thing starts working like a dream and it is coolest thing to ever reach the amusement world. I will be in awe of it. Just like I am in awe of the Rapunzel bathroom. Only Disney would create something that elaborate looking for a toilet.

Every person who has posted concerns on this thread and every other thread wants to be wrong. I have 43 years of DVC left. I want that time to be as enjoyable as possible.
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Old 05-25-2013, 06:27 PM   #938
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Originally Posted by Squidgyness View Post
Some confirmed things I don't like about the new system:

Booking rides in advance.
Three fastpass limit for this (not touching the issue of same day fastpasses)
The expansion of fastpass attractions (without going into specifics.)

Things we can reasonably infer from recent tests:

Counter service prebooking

That's four things right off the bat, and pretty big ones too. Most of all I dislike the fundamental basis of this system, booking rides in advance.

You can say that's selfish, but you can't say I only dislike things that aren't confirmed by disney in their terms and conditions or in the official announcement post, or by physical observation.

--------

"Disney is tackling this problem by trying to get their customers to commit to their parks 60 days in advance with the fastpass + and bracelet that works like wallet with a giant hole in it."

Agree. This is where I think corporate thinking diverged from what I want from disney.
I would add only one fp+ per ride per day
Only one park a day.
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Old 05-25-2013, 06:28 PM   #939
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Originally Posted by bcrook View Post

I will own up. There are about a million posts from me on this topic, there will be nowhere to hide when this whole thing starts working like a dream and it is coolest thing to ever reach the amusement world. I will be in awe of it. Just like I am in awe of the Rapunzel bathroom. Only Disney would create something that elaborate looking for a toilet.

Every person who has posted concerns on this thread and every other thread wants to be wrong. I have 43 years if DVC left. I want that time to be as enjoyable as possible.
Oh how I want to be wrong. I'm quite picky in my vacation destinations, and coupled with my available budget, if Florida gets crossed off my list, I'm screwed. None of the others are appealing to me.

I really do hope this works. Ill still think they should have made a new land or something, but ill be even more glad it didn't go kaput.

EDIT: at above, ill put that in now, thanks for reminding me.
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Old 05-25-2013, 06:29 PM   #940
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Originally Posted by bcrook View Post

I have asked this question before, but how man unique customers visit Universal Complex versus the WDW complex? That gap is decreasing quickly.

Here is my simplified logic: 37 million at Disney and counts the same people over and over. Most people visit all four parks. And I would guess that the MK averages two park days per person. So cut the 17 million in half and you get about 8.5 unique visitors a year. I don't have any idea how to figure in AP people. Frequent users would skew the number lower.

Last summer I spent 13 days at Disney. I went into park 10 days, so I counted 10 times in the attendance. My party of 15 all counted 10 times. At universal, I spent 1 day.

As a unique customer it was dead even.

Islands of adventure had about 8 million visitors (I will assume nearly everyone who visited universal also visited IoA).

The number of unique customers visiting each park is probably fairly close. Disney makes its money by keeping people involved for longer stays. This is what Universal is trying to grab, more days. They are doing it with cheaper rates, building more hotels, and adding new attractions.

Disney is tackling this problem by trying to get their customers to commit to their parks 60 days in advance with the fastpass + and bracelet that works like wallet with a giant hole in it.
Yes, if Universal was built out in the middle of a swamp like Disney World was, and they could build and build and build forever and ever and ever more hotels popping up each year, then yes maybe Disney would be worried. Unfortunately Universal is completely surrounded. They have no more room to build really. There's no more room for extra hotels, so unless they knockdown part of it and rebuild that's really their only option.

And in terms of being a unique visitor, the thing that Disney World does really well, that Walt did on purpose because Disneyland did not do this well, was to have this dedicated park system where you would stay on site, eat on-site, transportation on site and go to the park...everything is included and involved. So sure one person in four days might visit for parks and count as four people, but that's four days that they stayed at a Disney resort and ate at a Disney restaurant and bought Disney souvenirs and merchandise for the kids and went to a park and bought all the items in there: food, etc...

Do people go to Universal and think "four days just isn't enough?" No. And unless they figure out a way to build a third theme park 300 feet above the existing theme parks, they'll never really compete.

The funny thing is that everyone on this thread is wringing their hands about how that will have to wait in these horribly long lines now for all their favorite rides. And the same breath they're saying that Universal's doing everything right and Disney is going to lose all their visitors to Universal if they don't watch out. Well which is it?

I, for one, could really appreciate less people at WDW from now on. Especially during Food and Wine... And especially at the Hawaii kiosk!!
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Old 05-25-2013, 06:34 PM   #941
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Yes, if Universal was built out in the middle of a swamp like Disney World was, and they could build and build and build forever and ever and ever more hotels popping up each year, then yes maybe Disney would be worried. Unfortunately Universal is completely surrounded. They have no more room to build really. There's no more room for extra hotels, so unless they knockdown part of it and rebuild that's really their only option.

And in terms of being a unique visitor, the thing that Disney World does really well, that Walt did on purpose because Disneyland did not do this well, was to have this dedicated park system where you would stay on site, eat on-site, transportation on site and go to the park...everything is included and involved. So sure one person in four days might visit for parks and count as four people, but that's four days that they stayed at a Disney resort and ate at a Disney restaurant and bought Disney souvenirs and merchandise for the kids and went to a park and bought all the items in there: food, etc...

Do people go to Universal and think "four days just isn't enough?" No. And unless they figure out a way to build a third theme park 300 feet above the existing theme parks, they'll never really compete.

The funny thing is that everyone on this thread is wringing their hands about how that will have to wait in these horribly long lines now for all their favorite rides. And the same breath they're saying that Universal's doing everything right and Disney is going to lose all their visitors to Universal if they don't watch out. Well which is it?

I, for one, could really appreciate less people at WDW from now on. Especially during Food and Wine... And especially at the Hawaii kiosk!!
If you are there between October 16-20 I'll buy you a beer and we can talk about the beauty of Epcot!
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Old 05-25-2013, 06:37 PM   #942
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Yes, if Universal was built out in the middle of a swamp like Disney World was, and they could build and build and build forever and ever and ever more hotels popping up each year, then yes maybe Disney would be worried. Unfortunately Universal is completely surrounded. They have no more room to build really. There's no more room for extra hotels, so unless they knockdown part of it and rebuild that's really their only option.

And in terms of being a unique visitor, the thing that Disney World does really well, that Walt did on purpose because Disneyland did not do this well, was to have this dedicated park system where you would stay on site, eat on-site, transportation on site and go to the park...everything is included and involved. So sure one person in four days might visit for parks and count as four people, but that's four days that they stayed at a Disney resort and ate at a Disney restaurant and bought Disney souvenirs and merchandise for the kids and went to a park and bought all the items in there: food, etc...

Do people go to Universal and think "four days just isn't enough?" No. And unless they figure out a way to build a third theme park 300 feet above the existing theme parks, they'll never really compete.

The funny thing is that everyone on this thread is wringing their hands about how that will have to wait in these horribly long lines now for all their favorite rides. And the same breath they're saying that Universal's doing everything right and Disney is going to lose all their visitors to Universal if they don't watch out. Well which is it?

I, for one, could really appreciate less people at WDW from now on. Especially during Food and Wine... And especially at the Hawaii kiosk!!
Thinking like that is dangerous. No company is too big to fail. If you think this could in no way bring disneys profits down a lot, and therefore affect business, I'm afraid I disagree.

There is a one billion investment at stake here. They need to recoup that or people will get nervous. If they don't get it by increasing revenue and attendance in park, they'll go after discounts, ticket and resort prices.

It is in all our interests to hope for a system that pleases the most amount of people and gets the majority of people spending more and coming back, and not going offsite to universal anymore, or at least not as much. I don't think this is it. We may have to disagree on this.
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Old 05-25-2013, 06:39 PM   #943
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Originally Posted by Squidgyness View Post

Some confirmed things I don't like about the new system:

Booking rides in advance.
Three fastpass limit for this (not touching the issue of same day fastpasses)
The expansion of fastpass attractions (without going into specifics.)
One fastpass per ride a day, no repeat riding of headliners using fastpasses in the same day

Things we can reasonably infer from recent tests:

Counter service prebooking

That's four definite and one probable dislikes right off the bat, and pretty big ones too. Most of all I dislike the fundamental basis of this system, booking rides in advance.

You can say that's selfish, but you can't say I only dislike things that aren't confirmed by disney in their terms and conditions or in the official announcement post, or by physical observation.
.
Just for arguments sake, can you point me to the Disney site where they say all of these things are going to happen? Or is it CM's that people are talking to that are releasing/revealing this information? Because if it's the latter, I just read a recent post where someone had spoken to a CM at Polynesian who swore that there was zero chance of a DVC being built there. And other people swear it's going to happen. So many CM's, although maybe they mean well or just be prone to gossip, probably have no real idea what's really going to happen. Nor do we.

It's fine to be skeptical about changes that you think might happen and that you think might affect your touring plan. But the previous poster was basically saying that they were never coming back to Disney World because of the system that hasn't even been rolled out yet. It's a system they've never encountered, never had the opportunity to work with, or never actually seen the final product of, but they are sure that they are never coming back because of it.

Overreaction theater!

But like I said before: please oh please everybody who's reading this... go to Universal as much as possible!! Do not go to Food and Wine, especially in early November on the weekends. And please don't stay at the Boardwalk resort or Beach club in F&W season. And if you could be a doll and avoid all of the parks this July 17 through the 23rd, it would be much appreciated. :-)
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Old 05-25-2013, 06:47 PM   #944
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Just for arguments sake, can you point me to the Disney site where they say all of these things are going to happen?
Here is an article about FastPass+ testing for Be Our Guest at Lunch: http://blog.touringplans.com/2013/02...-during-lunch/

I for one like this idea, but they have to have more options. If you can place your order to be ready at a specific time, that would be awesome in my world. I'm a planner. I wonder what percentage of travelers like to have an itinerary that is planned out for most of the day? I appears Disney is investing heavily to get that market.
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Old 05-25-2013, 06:55 PM   #945
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Just for arguments sake, can you point me to the Disney site where they say all of these things are going to happen? Or is it CM's that people are talking to that are releasing/revealing this information? Because if it's the latter, I just read a recent post where someone had spoken to a CM at Polynesian who swore that there was zero chance of a DVC being built there. And other people swear it's going to happen. So many CM's, although maybe they mean well or just be prone to gossip, probably have no real idea what's really going to happen. Nor do we.

It's fine to be skeptical about changes that you think might happen and that you think might affect your touring plan. But the previous poster was basically saying that they were never coming back to Disney World because of the system that hasn't even been rolled out yet. It's a system they've never encountered, never had the opportunity to work with, or never actually seen the final product of, but they are sure that they are never coming back because of it.

Overreaction theater!

But like I said before: please oh please everybody who's reading this... go to Universal as much as possible!! Do not go to Food and Wine, especially in early November on the weekends. And please don't stay at the Boardwalk resort or Beach club in F&W season. And if you could be a doll and avoid all of the parks this July 17 through the 23rd, it would be much appreciated. :-)
Right, I may edit this as I go.

See http://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blo...he-next-level/ for the ability to book rides, shows and "etc" in advance.

A complete list of current fp attractions can be found here https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/gu...ces/fast-pass/ for reference.

For the fact that expansion is taking place, they tested fp+ at haunted mansion according to those who have been when the test was on (I haven't but I take their word for it as they have seen it themselves)

But also for this and the restrictions on numbers people refer to the terms and conditions for fastpass plus. They (or a link) were posted somewhere a while back but I can't find it ATM. If anyone could find it I'd be grateful. Given that everyone agrees this is what the terms and conditions say (even if not the complete picture), I'm going to safely assume they aren't part of a conspiracy to deceive us poor people who aren't willing to trawl through them. Apologies, i will keep looking .

The press release (http://static.wdwnews.com/files/2013...Experience.pdf) is interesting as it mentions changing based on feedback. (Pleeeease be true!)

However as far as I know no one has suggested taking as fact anything given to them by a cm. well, I think someone did earlier about a cm mentioning it being rolled out at a certain resort first or similar vague info but people said don't trust them. (Or was it a phone operator?)

If you search for articles on fastpass plus there are some good ones floating about from various stages of progress.
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