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Old 05-24-2013, 08:56 PM   #721
mom2mickeyfan
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Originally Posted by monorailrabbit View Post
I'm sorry, I don't think I said what I was thinking very well. I didn't mean to ruffle feathers! My thoughts were closer to Magicbob - like if you haven't entered the park by 2 and your FP+ expires at 2:30, it goes back into the pool... but then it was brought up how would people be able to snatch it up, who gets dibbs, etc... tricky tricky!

You didn't ruffle my feathers!! All is good here!

BUT!! Lets say I am able to book a FP+ for TSM that expires at 4:00. My family decides we are going to spend our morning sleeping in, then going for a swim and then have lunch. We decided to head over to HS around 3:00. I would not be very happy to find if I come in the gates at 3:31 and find my FP+ had been taken away. If I come through the gates at 3:31, I would still have plenty of time to make it TSM before my FP+ expires. I would say the same for coming through the gates 15 minutes before my FP+ expires. Anything less than that would be very hard to get those FP+s to anyone else.

And like someone else mentioned, how would they go about getting those FP+s to someone else. Will they send the offer to 100 families, 50, 25?? And I guess Disney is counting on most guest having smart phones. Our family does not and it would get kind of annoying seeing others get these bonuses all day and our family would be left out in the cold because we don't have a smart phone. Kind of takes away some of the magic feeling. Now, if that is what it comes to and our family doesn't have a smart phone, I wouldn't BLAME Disney but I certainly wouldn't feel very good about the fact.

Something else I have to say is that we always stay off-site and Disney would have to offer unlimited FP+s for our family to concern staying on-site. We stay in 1 and 2 bedroom condos with full kitchens and washers and dryers in our room for the same or less than the cost of a small Disney room. I couple of extra FP+ would not be worth the extra cost for our family. Not to mention that if our family spends more on our rooms then we have less to spend in the park.
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:18 PM   #722
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I would not be very happy to find if I come in the gates at 3:31 and find my FP+ had been taken away.
Yes. In fact folks would be very, very, very unhappy if this happened.

I doubt that unclaimed FP+s will be given away at all during the FP one-hour window, because I suspect that Disney will "overbook" each time slot, knowing what likely % will be no-shows and feeding that into their FP distribution formula.
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:20 PM   #723
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Why I think EMH is on the way out:

Again note: my arguments are not based on what I think is best for me or my family, my arguments on what I see Disney is thinking is best for their bottom line.

To be absolutely clear, I don't think that EMH is on the way out because of any Disney exec comments, its just my speculation regarding FP+ and what I think Disney hopes to achieve with this system. Also, you must understand that all of these suppositions rely on the fact that not only can Disney sell this prebooking in advance idea to the masses, in order for them to get a substantial return on their investment, they need a threshold percentage to participate.

I would think that it woud be somewhere between 70 and 80% of everybody, both onsite and off site. Many people will say this is not possible. I think its not only possible, but probable, not because I have a magic eightball, its because I think the Disney bean counters are some of the smartest people on the planet. And THEY must think this.

Asking people to prebook their fast passes up to 60 days in advance does several things for Disney


First, lets talk about the data gained by the prebooking of fast passes. Disney would now have an accurate prediction of how many people intend to visit Disney, they will also know which park they intend to visit each day. Right now, Disney probably has some algorithms figured out for on site resort guests, based on their bookings, and their dining reservations. But the off site guests, they would have close to zero data, unless of course the offsite person booked a ts inside a theme park..

Imagine then, if they can convince the off site people to give them more specific data for each and every day they intend to come. Why, Disney could accurately staff the theme parks, maybe even accurately staff the types of attractions at the theme parks (lot of people booked Peter Pan? better make sure this ride is fully staffed!)

Ok- just have to add this-I truly believe that the fp+ is the hook for the off site people. Disney has really ZERO data on them, and no stick or hook at this time. FP+ is the solution. If Disney was only interested in making this an on site resort perk, this system would not be tied to admission media, it would be tied to resort bookings. And they could have cut substantial costs by not having to put so many attractions, eateries, and shows 'on the grid.'

Disney NEEDS this data, and needs a psychological hold on off site guests. To start off though, it may just start with resort people, but its going to include everyone eventually, and soon.


Second, Disney can 'lead' the way people book their fast passes. Lets talk about Christmas for the extreme example. Its no news that on XMAS day, everybody seems to want to be in one of the 2 theme parks, MK or Epcot. These are the only 2 theme parks that typically reach maximum capacity and close the gates on xmas day. But, under this new system, when Sammy goes to prebook their fast passes, he notices that he cant get any 'good' fast passes booked for either mk, or epcot, but hey - animal kingdom has both 'legend of the lion king' and the yak and yeti available. Yehaa! Sammy cries, and now plans to go to AK on xmas day.

THIS SYSTEM HAS THE BUILT IN ABILITY TO DISPERSE CROWDS ON MAXIMUM CAPACITY DAYS. Thats amazing, think about it. And if Disney can lessen to a slight degree the overall waits at MK and EPCOT on xmas day, and utilize Studios and AK more, then there will be slightly more time to spend money on food and souvenirs, ect, and slightly less frustration of being in the theme park on xmas day. Also, there would not be wasted cost of incorrectly staffing parks when MK is over used, and AK is under utilized.

This is very subtle crowd control. And during non peak times, or regular park days, its a wonderful way to spread out the crowds between the 4 different parks to lessen the lines everywhere. And, can I say it? Those magic bands look waterproof, and I am thinking eventually those little mickey readers will be showing up at both TL and BB. So, really, it can be crowd control between 6 different Disney parks. WOWZA. And if Disney has minimized the overall crowds between the 5 to 6 parks that are operating in a single day, on a DAILY BASIS, then they will have achieved their goal of allowing more spending to happen, and an overall lessening of lines at attractions, stores and food outlets..

Third, and this is beautiful. Disney can NOT ONLY spread the crowds out in the different theme parks, but they can also spread out the crowds that are in that particular theme park on any given day, and ALSO at any given time. How do they do this? By having the guests prebook the fast passes, Disney controls who goes where when. WOW. And, they will do this not only with the prebooking thing, but they will also do this with the 'here and now feature, or the potential extra fast pass feature. Those non planners that walk in the day of? They will select the here and now button, and presto, they are told to go to the least busiest part of the park to an attraction, or counter service, or a freakin show. The average guest will love this, and THEY will end up waiting substantially less time then left to their own devices (like a 2 hr line at space). Disney can also manage the number of fast passes available for certain attractions or eateries, or what have you, on the actual working day. Staff shortage at BTMRR? no extra fp's go into the here and now today, and any no shows fp will not be re-entered into the system.

How does this tie into EMH? Well, EMH works sorta like fp+, but not really. Disney can certainly predict which park will be busiest and staff it so according to the ehm schedule, so far the same. But it clumps huge crowds together, and does not disperse them throughout the park itself. At the same time, Disney has to staff 4 other parks even though EMH is sucking a majority of Onsite guests into its vacuum. That's not efficient, is it? Also, EMH operates with extended hours, and as we can see, Disney can have much better crowd control, not only within an individual park, but it spreads out crowds evenly between all parks with FP+ WITHOUT EXTENDED HOURS. . And... how much money would Disney save by not having to staff the longer EMH hours, especially in slow season, or even regular season. Chaching!

Both systems are 'crowd control' systems, but as you can see , both work against each other. Having both operate correctly at the same time seems counter productive. And, if Disney can get the 80% to play, I think its very easy to see why FP+ is WAAAAAAAYYYY better from Disney's standpoint.

Ok, I am such a geek. I get giddy when I think of the absolute subtleness of this system, and the potential for Disney. I think it is apparent how disney plans to 'shorten' lines overall, and how this is going to please the 'ignorant' masses. They, who previously rolled into MK at 10:30 am, would stand in line at Space for 2 hrs, be totally frustrated and hungry. They then would go to the nearest CS (after being turned away from any TS location they tried to do a walk up to) and wait in the lunch time rush, wasting another hour. Its now 1:30 and they try to go do BTTMR, and wait another hour and a half.

And we all know, because we have all talked to people that have done Disney wrong, that it happens a lot. Probably a big percentage of people are in this boat. Instead, with a click of the mouse, and an itinerary made 'just for them', they are going to have a much better, much more fun time. Disney is forcing them to be smart, without having to really educate them.

And Angel Ariel: the fact is you tried the mobile ap. What if it worked perfectly? What if everything was in place, and all you had to do is click on your ticket media button, and followed the prompts? Would you have booked the fast passes? I think many would have. There is also the 'toy' mentality we are all suckers for in our personal gadgets. I would be hard pressed not to get sucked in, even if i knew that it may be better to just do the old fp system while its still available.

Now, all you IT people can see the big hole in my argument. I live in Utopia, where the system will work flawlessly, at maximum potential. And given Disney's past IT history, plus what has been ongoing on these little tiny tests, there are some big question marks regarding this system, and even if it can get off the ground ever. So, if Disney cannot make this system operate close to flawlessly, it will lead to frustration (which we already see daily regarding this new app), then there is little hope they will get the masses on board.

But the idea is there. The potential is there. And if they can get the sucker to work. its going to make Disney an awful lot of money.

Many many great points made here but one thing I think about is this. These families that have come in the park at 10:30 and then aren't happy because they end up in a Space line for 2 hours are going to be happy to be pushed into lesser rides to spread out the crowds for Disney? These same families have been coming into the parks at 10:30 for years and walking past the 5 minute wait for Stitch to get in that 2 hour Space line. Why?? Because they want to ride Space. So will they be happy when they come into the park at 10:30 with no booked FP+s, do a quick pick in which Disney pushes them to lesser rides and then 3 hours later find themselves in a 3 hour SB line for Space?
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:20 PM   #724
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Originally Posted by mom2mickeyfan View Post

You didn't ruffle my feathers!! All is good here!

Something else I have to say is that we always stay off-site and Disney would have to offer unlimited FP+s for our family to concern staying on-site. We stay in 1 and 2 bedroom condos with full kitchens and washers and dryers in our room for the same or less than the cost of a small Disney room. I couple of extra FP+ would not be worth the extra cost for our family. Not to mention that if our family spends more on our rooms then we have less to spend in the park.
This is the thing. I honestly don't think they'll sway many people with a few more fastpasses for staying onsite. People stay offsite because they want to OR have to due to budget reasons. Whereas people onsite stay onsite mainly because they want to. Disney realises they can't convert everyone staying offsite IMO (imagine if even half of offsite guests switched to disney resorts, it would be havoc!), and they won't risk annoying a lot of off site people with longer lines, and losing their in park money as they wait in these longer lines, just to give on site guests a couple more fastpasses.

EDIT:

Just realised Riley summarised it better. Reasons this will be for one system for everybody:
1. Disney need more data on offsite, and need to be able to factor them in for crowd control purposes. It would certainly help them a lot.
2. Offsite also spend money in the parks. Wouldn't be worth annoying them to throw a few more passes at onsite guests. This wouldn't be enough to sway more than a minority of people to stay onsite IMO.
3. Nothing mentioned anywhere about onsite getting more perks other than the magic band, which offsite can purchase anyway. Aesthetic choice only? (Just with room key on too as well as ticket) Corroborated by the idea of designer bands.
4. Linked to tickets, NOT reservations. Key thing here. Not tickets OR reservations, just tickets. Suggests one system for all.

Those last two points are key here IMO.
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:27 PM   #725
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If Disney does have it all figured out, why don't they come out with the details? Why did they start giving details and then abruptly stop?

Something changed or went wrong, and I don't think it is just a tech issue. Disney stopped trying to get people excited about all this, and it doesn't seem like a tech delay is a good enough reason.
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:38 PM   #726
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If Disney does have it all figured out, why don't they come out with the details? Why did they start giving details and then abruptly stop?

Something changed or went wrong, and I don't think it is just a tech issue. Disney stopped trying to get people excited about all this, and it doesn't seem like a tech delay is a good enough reason.
Exactly. Where is the publicity... Given the size of the investment they should be shouting it from the rooftops. It wouldn't be that early considering the announcements of some rides and areas of theme parks have been made over a year in advance from what I recall.

From what I've seen of walt he'd have given a detailed presentation of this by now, heck he did that for Epcot back before it was even certain it would go ahead in that form (it didn't but I digress). It's the sensible thing to do, can you imagine ford just saying "yeah the new mustang is coming folks and its completely different it looks a little like this *vague picture*" then clamming up for months?

Something smells fishy...
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:41 PM   #727
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Originally Posted by mom2mickeyfan View Post
You didn't ruffle my feathers!! All is good here!

BUT!! Lets say I am able to book a FP+ for TSM that expires at 4:00. My family decides we are going to spend our morning sleeping in, then going for a swim and then have lunch. We decided to head over to HS around 3:00. I would not be very happy to find if I come in the gates at 3:31 and find my FP+ had been taken away. If I come through the gates at 3:31, I would still have plenty of time to make it TSM before my FP+ expires. I would say the same for coming through the gates 15 minutes before my FP+ expires. Anything less than that would be very hard to get those FP+s to anyone else.

And like someone else mentioned, how would they go about getting those FP+s to someone else. Will they send the offer to 100 families, 50, 25?? And I guess Disney is counting on most guest having smart phones. Our family does not and it would get kind of annoying seeing others get these bonuses all day and our family would be left out in the cold because we don't have a smart phone. Kind of takes away some of the magic feeling. Now, if that is what it comes to and our family doesn't have a smart phone, I wouldn't BLAME Disney but I certainly wouldn't feel very good about the fact.

Something else I have to say is that we always stay off-site and Disney would have to offer unlimited FP+s for our family to concern staying on-site. We stay in 1 and 2 bedroom condos with full kitchens and washers and dryers in our room for the same or less than the cost of a small Disney room. I couple of extra FP+ would not be worth the extra cost for our family. Not to mention that if our family spends more on our rooms then we have less to spend in the park.
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Yes. In fact folks would be very, very, very unhappy if this happened.

I doubt that unclaimed FP+s will be given away at all during the FP one-hour window, because I suspect that Disney will "overbook" each time slot, knowing what likely % will be no-shows and feeding that into their FP distribution formula.
Excellent points again! Maybe it would be better off to just let these disappear then (yay for people in SB line anyway ) But goodness I do hope they don't "overbook" too much and then everyone actually DOES show up!

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If Disney does have it all figured out, why don't they come out with the details? Why did they start giving details and then abruptly stop?

Something changed or went wrong, and I don't think it is just a tech issue. Disney stopped trying to get people excited about all this, and it doesn't seem like a tech delay is a good enough reason.
This!
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:41 PM   #728
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How do you purchase the armed salute fx passes Angel Ariel? I have to know in order to answer your question.

~A

long post in the works coming up to answer that chasgoose, and the whole emh thing. Or, at least, my answer. Its worth 2 cents, you may be asking for change :>)
You can purchase AFS tickets in 3 places:

1.) Base/Post MWR/ITT ticket offices (no tax)
2.) Shades of Green (no tax)
3.) WDW ticket windows (taxed)

Personally, I have always chosen option #1 and bought them from the nearest military installation's ticket office.
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:44 PM   #729
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Mom2Mickeyfan

I think 'they' would be still able to get at least one decent fast pass. Because disney has really closed the lid on multiple mountain fp's, and if you look at the tier system that was used in the trial system, you can see disney 'safeguards' the ability for many many people to score at least one good fast pass.

And I suspect, they will release fp attraction availability of the 'hot' commodities, the same way they release dining venues. Not everything becomes available at the 190 day mark, Not everything becomes available at the 180 day mark, not everything is available at the 60, 45, 30 or 7 day mark. Some inventory usually makes it in to the system all through out the timeline. They will save some for the 'day of' and they will also save some to 'float' the whole system for making changes right up until the day of. And if its like dining ressies, there are always some held back for VIPS until the day of.

So, they will get to do something great, something mediocre, some type of dining thing, maybe score a 'here and now' and be left to their own devices. Overall, this is FANTASTIC compared to what they are doing. And if they decide to hop into that brutal line, they will have enough to make them happy with their tour day. Is that a stretch? maybe. Maybe thats a weak argument.

Also, people are getting excited about fp+ and the ability to of them to be self cancelling. This may or may not happen. If the IT people can make this system work like a dream, the potential is there. However, I dont think it would be the scenario of, hey, I didnt enter the park until 30 minutes before my fp time, and it got canceled. I think it may work more along the lines of, the system recognizes your bracelet and you are currently going through the epcot turnstiles at 3:30. Your FP+ is for BTMRR. It knows you cannot possibly make it, so it could self cancel.

PrincessArlenesDad
Certainly on the internet the info is slowed down. And so has the testing. But, I just got my DisneyFiles magazine today. I opened it, and a shiny leaflet fell to the floor. Guess what it was on? A 2 page insert on My Disney Experience, and the upcoming FP+.

Now, its not impossible that the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing, but, Im not sure your argument holds water.

But I am truly concerned the with IT stuff.

Sqidgy - isnt it lilke 2 or 3 am in the morning for you? Go get some rest, we can argue another day! :>)
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:45 PM   #730
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And Angel Ariel: the fact is you tried the mobile ap. What if it worked perfectly? What if everything was in place, and all you had to do is click on your ticket media button, and followed the prompts? Would you have booked the fast passes? I think many would have. There is also the 'toy' mentality we are all suckers for in our personal gadgets. I would be hard pressed not to get sucked in, even if i knew that it may be better to just do the old fp system while its still available.
The only thing I wanted the app for was the current wait times...so I had no need of it (or want of it) until I was in the park. If FP+ is only about pre-booking, I would not have ever seen it/used it, as I didn't even want to use it until I was in the park already.

Also, while I do love my smartphone, I do not love being tied to it on vacation. It was wonderful to be able to put it down and just be in the moment with my family. I don't particularly *want* to feel like i need to have my smartphone with me in order to tour WDW well.
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:48 PM   #731
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The only thing I wanted the app for was the current wait times...so I had no need of it (or want of it) until I was in the park. If FP+ is only about pre-booking, I would not have ever seen it/used it, as I didn't even want to use it until I was in the park already.

Also, while I do love my smartphone, I do not love being tied to it on vacation. It was wonderful to be able to put it down and just be in the moment with my family. I don't particularly *want* to feel like i need to have my smartphone with me in order to tour WDW well.
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:48 PM   #732
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Something changed or went wrong, and I don't think it is just a tech issue. Disney stopped trying to get people excited about all this, and it doesn't seem like a tech delay is a good enough reason.
This is what I've been thinking for a while now. They are letting the rumors FLY with no end in sight. If they had something [anything] to say that could mitigate all the speculation, they should have shared by now.... or at least been proactively quashing the worst of the rumors.

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Old 05-24-2013, 09:55 PM   #733
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And to add my 2 cents to the whole smart phone issue... I seem to recall not too long ago plenty of dissers up in arms over Parent X texting while on IASW instead of enjoying time with their family in such a magical place [or lighting up a dark ride with their too bright screen, or stepping on heals while they walked blindly through the crowds, etc.]. Imagine an entire park filled with people, nose down trying reschedule a FP+. I don't think that would be fun at all.

Besides kiosks, they are going to need slow lanes for people looking at their screens
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:55 PM   #734
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The only thing I wanted the app for was the current wait times...so I had no need of it (or want of it) until I was in the park. If FP+ is only about pre-booking, I would not have ever seen it/used it, as I didn't even want to use it until I was in the park already.

Also, while I do love my smartphone, I do not love being tied to it on vacation. It was wonderful to be able to put it down and just be in the moment with my family. I don't particularly *want* to feel like i need to have my smartphone with me in order to tour WDW well.
Precisely why I'm fervently hoping the kiosks in park will let you book fps as well as change them, if not for the same day then at less later in the week. Don't fancy lugging my ipad across the Atlantic, and the only one of us who has an android phone is tech challenged, and I've never used android, nor do I want to, particularly on a vacation. Ironic really.

I know so many other people who don't bring phones on vacation though, I guess people in certain industries do bring them so they can be contacted, but we don't need to. No reason to be tethered to the phone... Yet. Long may it remain so.

Also I find it hilarious that people on here were accusing some of being a little negative (not aimed at anyone in particular, don't start a war or anything ) but at this point I think I'd take any news over no news.
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:59 PM   #735
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When we went last year, we left our phones at home. Crazy, maybe, but it was SO nice not to look at those stupid things. We lived in the moment. We saw many people on their cells etc., which to us, was like... why? we are in Disney World! Enjoy being here! Anyway... if this FP+ is in and basically you have to have a phone in order to book these things on the fly... I won't be enjoying this vacation nearly as much as the last one. And I probably won't come again for quite some time.
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