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Old 05-24-2013, 12:06 PM   #676
HelenParr
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Originally Posted by Rileygirl View Post
doggydoc

6 month short term forecast: life is good, transition will be awesome and you will be able to manipulate the system to have a great time

Mid term forecast: its going to be much harder to jump through the hoops and have the easy access to headliners.

Longterm forecast: life is going to suck.

To answer your question: Oh yes, disney will not even glance back at your business doggydoc. They just replaced you with 3,000 new clients who came to disney and had a good time because they were forced to. I dont think Disney will even shed a tear.

ok- pretty flippant answer, and I dont mean any disrespect. But its what I kinda think on the timeline. And we both know if they can make the majority happy, who cares about 'you' or me. They wont!

Your comment on tech that will work fifteen years from now is right on the money. I dont know that what they are putting in place will stand the test of time, likely not. But prebooking, prescheduling, smart devices will all play a major and evolving role for the future. and your 15 year old will more likely be using it then your grandma. My point is, this prebooking and planning of your disney trip is only an issue right now to a part of the population, but it will not be an issue in the future, according to my crystal ball. Ha!
They care. They have to care about reaction. They act/react based on what they perceive the guests do or do not like. Disney cannot afford to wait and see for too long on anything, they have to make course corrections based on trending.

Right now, it seems like they perceive that the issue is people hate long lines, and think it would help to allow preschedule. Could be true. Might work great.

But if it does not work great, and there is pushback from a vocal minority (I'm not arguing for it, hypothetically) they will react. So one person's unhappiness with FP+, agree strongly, not an issue. But there is a tipping point. With due credit to Robo: if it's new Coke, it can be reformulated. And I am sure Disney is comfortable about that approach.

The fact that virtual ticketing is the wave of the future (totally agree) is really a small part of this.
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Old 05-24-2013, 12:09 PM   #677
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To answer your question: Oh yes, disney will not even glance back at your business doggydoc. They just replaced you with 3,000 new clients who came to disney and had a good time because they were forced to. I dont think Disney will even shed a tear.
I am not alone, many on here have stated the same concerns and I believe many more will when/if such changes become official. If Disney can shrug their shoulders at losing repeat long-term clients then they are exclusive among practically every other business existing, from food service to car repair, in that regard. I find it hard to believe.

The aim of this is supposedly to encourage guests to stay at Disney, this means they must be feeling some heat from the competition. One of your premises is that Disney will make this work though marketing, but what about counter-marketing from competition. Universal is adding newer rides and more on-site hotels. Their on-site guests enjoy UNLIMITED Express Pass usage. Don't you think limitations on FP's will give them an excellent opportunity to market this as superior to FP+? If Disney doesn't care about business lost to Universal then why the big billion dollar effort to keep them in the parks? By your logic they are willing to give up my(and others like me) business and also put themselves at a possible marketing disadvantage. It doesn't make sense to me.

I went to Universal two days during our trip last year. This year I received an invitation for a survey about the new Harry Potter expansion. It took me nearly 30 minutes to complete and asked me to rate my opinion on various permutations regarding the new train between US and IOA. It was very detailed. So US is obviously concerned with my repeat business, and if Disney shows me they are not US/IOA and SeaWorld will get it.
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Old 05-24-2013, 12:24 PM   #678
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Old 05-24-2013, 12:40 PM   #679
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Originally Posted by Rileygirl View Post
Going to do a few rebutals at this time

On the most part Squidyness (I picture squiggy form Laverne and Shirley everytime I see your name , dont know why ) I really agree with almost everything you are saying. I totally agree with you regarding the importance of disney wooing the off site guest. However there are a few points regarding this particular post

I think the new Magic Plus system, and all it entails, will be considered a big perk for on site resort guests, and Disney will certainly spin it this way.

In fact, I have always maintained that Disney will eliminate EMH once this system is fully in place, and will use the FP+ at the incentive to stay on site. How? a few ways (please keep in mind that when i speak of incentives, they are percieved perks that the general population will buy. Not necessarily of any value to an informed Disney goer. Like what a 9:30am Fast Pass to HM would mean to the average person, or to us. To us, RIGHT NOW, its useless. But to regular joe: hey, thats cool. I think actually you and another poster were discussing stitch FP's, exactly the same idea. BUT- if 80% of the average population think this is a perk, then its a selling feature for disney!)

Hmm. Would you say the loss of EMH would be compensated by earlier access to FP's?

1)When factor: On Site Resort guests will have some type of 'plus 10 window' for booking their fast passes. This may end up being a very real value factor
2)Extra's: I really see the MK being able to offer extra. I think that this could be a resort only perk.
3)Who: I can see resort tiers being eventually tied to the when factor. Ie, delux can book 60 plus 20, mods 60 plus 10, values 60 plus 5. This class system is already in place on disney cruise line, you can book earlier for restaurants, spa and excursions depending on how many previous cruises you have done.

What do you mean when you say extras? Do you mean more Fastpasses that day or other things? If more fastpasses, I don't know if I can see them doing more at one park than another. It might get complicated, even more so than now. (Though I really wouldnt be that bothered by more fastpasses for MK as we don't go on many of the kids rides like peter pan etc now.)

I could see on-site guests having slightly earlier access to booking fastpasses. (Again, this wouldn't bother me as I wouldn't book 60 days early anyway.) I just can't really see a class system being introduced amongst on-site resorts. The cruise thing you mention seems more geared up to reward customer loyalty, not what accomodation you use.


Also, I am not positive that Disney is using this new system to hold more people captive in their theme parks for longer periods of time. I think its more about them getting people (and in particular the off site guest) to show up and not be tempted by the competing parks and attractions. As long as they get you through the gate and use a day on your pass, they have already had a major win. Now its just a matter of how long they can keep you there.

An example I used in the past: its a gorgeous day and the holiday inn guest wants to go to the local waterpark. But the misses already booked space mountain and wishes for today, and they are hard fp's to get. Oh no, we cant change them for another day that we are here, we just checked our playbook. Guess we better go to the MK.... its all a psychological thing. Disney is brilliant about that.

The theme park ticket expense is enough to keep the average theme park goer from not going to Disney's competitors, not many people can afford to do pay for Disney's tickets, and then say, Universals on top, in a single day. Disney already has the 'psychological hold' on you because of the way they front load the ticket expenses too. If they can get you through the gate first, they win.

I wasn't talking about leaving the same day, I meant in the sense you did, in that the situation you described can apply to off-site guests as much as on-site.

E.g. If all guests were staying off-site and planning a six day disney pass, and a day at universal or seaworld, they too could be swayed to get another day at Disney by a prebooked fastpass.

Off-site guests are even more likely to visit universal for a day, so it would make sense to give them access to pre-ordering fastpasses too as an enticement. The "Get em in the Disney parks instead of universal" applies to them too, that's what I meant.


My coffee is wearing off, I hope this post makes sense.
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Old 05-24-2013, 12:43 PM   #680
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Originally Posted by Rileygirl View Post
I think the new Magic Plus system, and all it entails, will be considered a big perk for on site resort guests, and Disney will certainly spin it this way.

In fact, I have always maintained that Disney will eliminate EMH once this system is fully in place, and will use the FP+ at the incentive to stay on site.
If this is the route Disney goes, they run the risk of disappointing millions of repeat on-site visitors. Unless FP+ performs much better than expectations, it will be perceived by many as a step in the wrong direction from the current FP system. If it ALSO replaces EMH as the on-site perk, it could be a PR nightmare if enough people are unhappy with FP+ as it is.


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Originally Posted by Rileygirl View Post
The theme park ticket expense is enough to keep the average theme park goer from not going to Disney's competitors, not many people can afford to do pay for Disney's tickets, and then say, Universals on top, in a single day. Disney already has the 'psychological hold' on you because of the way they front load the ticket expenses too. If they can get you through the gate first, they win.
Consider, even for the onsite guest, Disney does a good job of marketing when it comes to "holding guests hostage." When you book a package online, the default is to buy as many days worth of tickets as the length of your stay. Then they have you add WPFM. Many people don't realize that they can (and in some cases should) purchase less days of tickets, since those water park days could mean wasted park days. But, hey, Disney already has your money at that point. And if you plan to go to SW, UNI/IA, BG, etc., you need to have planned that ahead of time or else, as you said, you'll have to "waste" one of the days you already paid for at Disney.

Of course, it is possible to get the "right" number of days worth of tickets for those types of plans to work out. But many people when presented with the "package" of 5 days worth of tickets for a 5 night stay are just going to click on "add to cart" without researching the options further.

This is likely how many people will pre-book their FP+. Disney will offer a convenient pre-packaged selection as part of your package and you will have to MANUALLY change it if you want a different selection.
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Old 05-24-2013, 12:43 PM   #681
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Old 05-24-2013, 12:55 PM   #682
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EMH is the controversial Misconception I wanted to talk about, and also, how lines are suppose to get shorter (not).

I will post more about both of these later, because they will be lengthy.

but I just wanted to say, I dont think FP+ replacing EMH is going to be better for us. I dont know if it will be worse. I just think that EMH is the antithis of what disney really wants out of FP+, and that is crowd control.

The PR people will wrap it up in a pretty bow, and try to sell it.

So, just know that I dont think FP+ SHOULD replace EMH, I just think that it will. And, I understand the pain it will cause for many who love EMH. Back on my very first lengthy post, I said this new system will be a game changer, and in part, I said this because of what I see as the slow death of EMH.

But, I could be totally wrong. I will present what I consider the facts, and you guys can dissect it. This is just speculation on my part.

I will be back in a few hours!
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Old 05-24-2013, 12:56 PM   #683
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My saucy answer of Disney not shedding a tear: it really was about numbers. If a small number objects, Disney wont care. If a large number objects, Disney will care. I dont think the Dis, large as it is, counts as even 10% of Disney Vacation goers. And, the number who are very dissatisfied with Disney that voice their concerns, are often drowned out by several who say the exact opposite.

If your opinion starts to make up 20% of vacation goers, then Disney will lend an ear. Thats just what I think though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rileygirl View Post
EMH is the controversial Misconception I wanted to talk about, and also, how lines are suppose to get shorter (not).

I will post more about both of these later, because they will be lengthy.

but I just wanted to say, I dont think FP+ replacing EMH is going to be better for us. I dont know if it will be worse. I just think that EMH is the antithis of what disney really wants out of FP+, and that is crowd control.

The PR people will wrap it up in a pretty bow, and try to sell it.

So, just know that I dont think FP+ SHOULD replace EMH, I just think that it will. And, I understand the pain it will cause for many who love EMH. Back on my very first lengthy post, I said this new system will be a game changer, and in part, I said this because of what I see as the slow death of EMH.

But, I could be totally wrong. I will present what I consider the facts, and you guys can dissect it. This is just speculation on my part.
If FP+ replaces EMH, it will affect a lot more people than just DISboard members. Vast numbers of onsite guests take advantage of this perk each year. Anything that replaces it will either be perceived as an improvement or a negative. FP+ will need a proven track record and enjoy a highly positive perception by guests to avoid the latter. I think it won't just be DISboard members who cry "foul" if they replace EMH with an offering that is considered by the masses to be inferior to the old perk.
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Old 05-24-2013, 01:29 PM   #684
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i'm probably missing something obvious here, but i keep seeing the phrase "valid ticket" in order to prebook. I also keep reading that it could be 60 days out for prebooking. What constitutes a valid ticket? if i book a package at WDW, currently i get my tickets on my KTTW card at check in. so does this mean there will be a change in ticketing as well? like i said, i'm probably missings something obvious here.
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Old 05-24-2013, 01:38 PM   #685
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i'm probably missing something obvious here, but i keep seeing the phrase "valid ticket" in order to prebook. I also keep reading that it could be 60 days out for prebooking. What constitutes a valid ticket? if i book a package at WDW, currently i get my tickets on my KTTW card at check in. so does this mean there will be a change in ticketing as well? like i said, i'm probably missings something obvious here.
Even though you don't have a physical ticket in hand, you have already purchased your ticket when you book. So I'm pretty sure they would consider you to have a "valid ticket" at that time.
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Old 05-24-2013, 01:43 PM   #686
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Even though you don't have a physical ticket in hand, you have already purchased your ticket when you book. So I'm pretty sure they would consider you to have a "valid ticket" at that time.
ok, so that makes sense to me. then those who stay offsite or are locals would have to purchase park tickets in advance in order to prebook FP+ in advance?
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:07 PM   #687
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ok, so that makes sense to me. then those who stay offsite or are locals would have to purchase park tickets in advance in order to prebook FP+ in advance?
Presumably. Which is basically a big rude gesture to everyone from international markets, but I digress.

'Valid ticket' means a ticket to get into WDW. Magic Your Way as they so confusingly call it.
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:10 PM   #688
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This is in response to Rileygirl's thoughts

I think the predominant theme in your posts is that FP+ has two objectives. However, they are mutually competing:

1. Incentive to stay onsite
2. Lure to keep off-site guests to go to Disney each day, and not get distracted by Seaworld bilboards (maybe I'd go to Seaworld if I didn't have FP+ scheduled for each day)

In order for #1 to be of value, it must be much better than off-site guests can get with FP+. But, then the offsite won't be captivated to only do Disney
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:11 PM   #689
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.If only they could come up with a system that only those that are actually in the park could take up places in the FP lines.
Perhaps there would be a way that these FP+ options aren't actually ACTIVE in the system until your RFID tells the park you there? I hope that makes sense, lol.
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:14 PM   #690
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Originally Posted by Squidgyness View Post
Presumably. Which is basically a big rude gesture to everyone from international markets, but I digress.
Not sure why...they can order tickets and book packages just like anyone else as far as I know.


Quote:
'Valid ticket' means a ticket to get into WDW. Magic Your Way as they so confusingly call it.
Magic Your Way is a particular class of ticket, and currently the most common one as it applies to most everyone. But there are a bunch of different classes of tickets that aren't MYW tickets - Annual Passes, YES, Conference, Ultimate (UK), etc...

The T&C doesn't specify anything about other classes of tickets currently. They do say that MYW ticket holders will get the 60 day window. Others could potentially get more or less. It remains to be seen.

The way it looks to be set up, all you will need is a valid ticket associated with your profile. It doesn't need to be a physical ticket in your hand. But if you purchased a physical ticket, there will (presumably, it doesn't exist yet) a way to enter the ticket ID into the web site to get it associated.

I'm predicting that those who have a package associated with their profiles will automatically have the ticket associated as well for the purposes of FP+. Those ordering tickets online for will-call pickup likewise.
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