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Old 05-24-2013, 07:50 AM   #631
g-dad66
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Originally Posted by magicbob View Post
I think it can and probably WILL be exactly that. Remember, at least PART of the reason they are developing a tiered system and adding FP+ to rides that don't need it is to steer people to those rides. As others have pointed out, many casual guests are likely to be quite satisfied that they were able to pre-book their FP+ for Buzz Lightyear, Haunted Mansion, etc. Since they have no frame of reference to compare to (i.e., they don't know that you rarely ever NEED a FP for these rides), they will only now that they were able to "bypass the lines" for these attractions.
Agree.

And if this new system works as intended (spreading out guests to more attractions), it could be that attractions which now rarely have long waits could indeed become attractions where one might "need" (or at least "benefit from") having a Fast Pass.

We know that the Free Dining and other promotions have succeeded in recent years to enticing guests to come during "slow times" so that slow times now are not nearly so slow as they were five or more years ago.

I expect we'll see the same phenomenon occur with FP+ (IF the technology ever works right).

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Originally Posted by magicbob View Post
And there's potentially the additional "social engineering" aspect of sending texts to alert guests that, say, Stitch FP+s are available if they act right now! I'm sure at least a few people will end up trading their Peter Pan FP for Stitch because they don't know the historical wait times for these rides.
Agree.

On our last trip, our group included a granddaughter's friend who had never been to WDW but was very keen on checking the MDE app for available attractions. On our MK day, two different times she said "Look, Stitch's Great Escape has only a 5 minute wait right now. Let's go there." (I told her the attraction was too far away from where we were in Frontierland, and I assured her that the wait would still be very short much later in the day.)
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Old 05-24-2013, 07:52 AM   #632
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I think the biggest fault in the logic people use on the disboards concerning forcasting how FP+ will work, is that they do it based on their own personal stance, how it will effect their personal way of touring, and what it means in the next year or two. Thats a myopic view.

I dont think that is how Disney thinks. This Magic Plus is the BIG IDEA and the BIG PICTURE. If you know what they want to get out of this system, and how it makes them money, then a lot of these debates regarding fp+ and the number that will be available, well, they are not logical in my opinion.

I wont be reading any more on this thread for the next hour or 2 while I compose a post why I think that most of the predictions from you guys are not logical. I am not a confrontational person, and I dont like flaming and fighting, and I am not looking to make this thread close. There will be certain holes in my arguements, and I welcome people to take me to task on it. It makes everyone think. It helps everyone. Maybe it will help us figure out what is really going on. It will definetly help pass the time until the system is unveiled.

So again, I intend to insult no one. I just want to point out a different perspective other then the current one that appears to be prevelent on this thread.

If I think my post is going to be too hot, I may not actually submit it, because it does NO ONE good when intelligent threads get locked.
I don't believe that anything we have talked about are "problems" that Disney is trying to fix. I think Disney wants to everyone to see this is something they are doing to "help" guest but I think it has more to do with their bottom line. And that it actually has nothing to do with the things we have been discussing. I just believe the things we are discussing may OR may not be the results of Disney's current plans. But I'm sure it really has nothing to do with making things better for guest. Disney just wants everyone to believe that.
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:15 AM   #633
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Originally Posted by g-dad66 View Post

And if this new system works as intended (spreading out guests to more attractions), it could be that attractions which now rarely have long waits could indeed become attractions where one might "need" (or at least "benefit from") having a Fast Pass.
This is one of my greatest concerns with the addition of FP+. It has the potential to change things in ways we haven't even considered.
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:35 AM   #634
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I am sorry

I typed in a hurry, there were some misleading comments in my posts

1. The onsite guest perk could be 60 plus 10

2. I dont mean to say they could book 10 days worth of fast passes on a 5 day ticket. Thats silly. I mean to say, they could book 5 days worth of fast passes in that 10 day span.
Oh okay. I misunderstood that second point.

Now for the first, in a quote so you can skip the long rambling bit if you want (summary at the bottom.)

Quote:
The onsite guest perks seem to be only that they get the band at this point in time (see quote above from Disney when they announced MyMagic+)

I'm not entirely sure that this system is specifically designed to give advantage to the onsite guest anyway. In the parks every guest will spend money while not in lines, not just on-site guests, so it makes no sense to only go after on-site with this. They don't have to give anyone perks, just keep everything simple under one class of system. (The difference between ticket and band seems minimal from what I can see at this point.)

This just doesn't seem like a system designed in order to entice people to on-site resorts, but primarily to keep them out of lines and from wandering off-park (i.e. to universal.) I'm not saying this system wouldn't result in more attendance on-site (which I'm sure Disney would love), nor am I saying it was designed with off-site guests in mind. I'm saying they seem more focused about what happens in park not which resort people are going to.

If they really wanted more people to stay on-site because of this system it would have been designed far more on a class system, even with different access amongst the more expensive disney resorts. As it stands, the basic components (touch to enter, pay, and redeem fastpass+) are available for everyone, off-site, basic, mod, deluxe.

See this article for a Disney statement on their aims (what they admit anyway) http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2013-...s-mymagic-plus.

Quote:
So if we can get people to plan their vacation before they leave home, we know that we get more time with them. We get a bigger share of their wallet
Nowhere in that article does it mention anything about encouraging people to spend more time in Disney resorts, but about getting people to spend more time at Disney full stop, which includes the parks. I think It's more about ensuring people don't leave WDW parks to go to other parks.

I can see some small benefits being given like you posted but some people seem certain they will get more FP+ for staying on site. I'm not saying i'm definitely right, but I can't see them giving a fundamentally different level of service to on-site guests, like more FP+. It's not neccesary, as in-park everyone has money to spend, and Disney will want tour groups, on-site, off-site, everyone to spend more money.
For a summary: While I agree that some small perks for on-site might be included in the final system (personalisation of ride endings was mentioned at the start of MyMagic+ for example) I don't think they are going to give too many benefits to on-site guests, such as more FP+ available per guest for example as other commentators on other websites seem to think (some are still under the impression only resort guests will be able to access it at all!) I don't think this is because they want to help off-site guests but that it makes more financial sense to get everyone to spend less time in lines and more spending in park.

More FP+ for on-site... I just can't see it, nothing seems to indicate it. Once you get in park, you will spend money regardless of where you are staying. Disney wants to maximise profits with this, I can't see them prioritising on-site. To put it bluntly, Disney will want as much money from as many people as they can get. Of course they will maintain it is because they don't want to segregate and create class structures, and who knows maybe thats a reason too. I just think they know on-site people will spend more in-park under MyMagic+ regardless of benefits, and if they can get both on- and off-site people spending under an equal system, cha-ching!

Also, as a disclaimer I don't mean any of these posts in an aggressive or snarky manner.
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:42 AM   #635
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Originally Posted by Sammie View Post
Pete summed it up best on the Podcast and while I can't use his words, here due to filters, basically no one is forced to use it and why be against something that you know so little about it. Give it a chance first.
He stated that no one will force you to wear a Magic Band, because they have a KTTW RFID option. He VERY unequivocally stated that regular FP is going away at some point and FP+ will be the only option.

And the reason to voice our displeasure at possible negative changes is that many times in the past, especially recently, large companies have changed course due to public hue and cry. It is pretty obvious that there are times that corporate decisions are made in a vacuum created by the disconnect between what is perceived in the boardroom and what is fact on Main Street. If we don't voice our opinions we guarantee that decisions continue to be made based on corporate perceptions.
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:59 AM   #636
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And the reason to voice our displeasure at possible negative changes is that many times in the past, especially recently, large companies have changed course due to public hue and cry. It is pretty obvious that there are times that corporate decisions are made in a vacuum created by the disconnect between what is perceived in the boardroom and what is fact on Main Street. If we don't voice our opinions we guarantee that decisions continue to be made based on corporate perceptions.
And maybe, just maybe, feedback is getting back to those who have control, and might be going, "Hmmm...did we take that into consideration?" etc.

There was a large cry out when this stuff was announced in January. Since then, we've heard very little new, but the rumblings about things continue that might just indicate that there may have already been changes. Problem is, we don't know that for sure. So we still only have the original information to go on, plus some anecdotal info, and information of various reliability which often conflict.
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:09 AM   #637
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And maybe, just maybe, feedback is getting back to those who have control, and might be going, "Hmmm...did we take that into consideration?" etc.

There was a large cry out when this stuff was announced in January. Since then, we've heard very little new, but the rumblings about things continue that might just indicate that there may have already been changes. Problem is, we don't know that for sure. So we still only have the original information to go on, plus some anecdotal info, and information of various reliability which often conflict.
With the amount of money invested in this, given the lack of info or even widespread testing, I don't think it's crazy to say there have been problems thrown up, otherwise they'd have at least been doing some limited testing soon I'd have thought.

At the very least, surely they'd have wanted to get this thing tested before summer, otherwise it's going to be under a lot of stress from the start, not a big adjustment period or room to manouver.

Unless like you say they are adjusting things right now, which would make more sense.
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:10 AM   #638
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:17 AM   #639
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So far I think Rileygirl is hitting it on all cylinders...this is about getting more out of every guest, not just the resort guests.

In fact, I think the potential increase in margin might be higher with the off-site guests...
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:23 AM   #640
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Originally Posted by doconeill View Post
So far I think Rileygirl is hitting it on all cylinders...this is about getting more out of every guest, not just the resort guests.

In fact, I think the potential increase in margin might be higher with the off-site guests...
I agree. Think about it, once they've gotten that extra $$$ out of you for staying onsite, you don't really give Disney any more money than offsite in park, or at least I'd have thought not. In-park spending figures will probably show that onsite and offsite guests spend much the same, or at least not wildly different, amounts in park. Another thought, could off-site guests represent a better margin for disney when it comes to things like dining? (The DDP reducing profit?)

Ergo, it is probably going to be for every guest, don't expect much special treatment for staying onsite.

I too think that post is marvellous to behold! It's much better worded than mine was.
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:33 AM   #641
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I have yet to comment on any of these related threads. Just popping in to say, thank you Rileygirl for your well thought out post. Back to my regularly scheduled program.
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:36 AM   #642
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Misconception #4

Booking in Advance will only be for resort guests, not for off site guests.


Please read Misconception #3, and you will know why I think this is a total crock. One of the reasons Disney spent the billions is because (IMO) that could get their hands on off - site guests, and suck them in.

Ok, this post is long enough, I will continue on another.

I understand and agree with several things you say but I still believe Disney has a HUGE uphill battle to pull these off-site guest into this booking in advance. They will have NO contact with these off-site guest until the day they show up at the park. No pays attention to commericals! How else will Disney reach them? I guess maybe Facebook?? But am I the only one that just gives the post from businesses a passing glance?? The fact is, planners are planners, will learn about the system and MAY decided to book FP+s in advance. These are the same ones that have been using the current system. Non-planners are non-planners and could very well have no idea this system is even in place. Disney can not change the way people are!! My DSIL is very much a non-planner. I can see NOTHING Disney will do that will make her book her FP+s 60 days out. I can't even get her to decide if they want to have dinner together tomorrow night!!! BUT that is a whole different problem than this FP+!

I think there is a chance that Disney hopes this will change things but I really believe it has NOTHING to do with making ANY guest happier or spreading around the FPs. There is a chance this may be the results but there is also a chance that some of the things we worry about may be the results also. It could very well be some of both! But I believe Disney's goal as nothing to do with the guest but with their bottom line. They just want to find a way to make everyone believe they are doing this to make guest happier. Some will be, some will not and some will know no difference but that is not their goal!
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:43 AM   #643
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So here is a thought, you made a reservation for a Disney resort room only and that gave you the ability to book FP+s 60 days out. Does the system keep track that those FP+s are tied to that reservation and cancel them if you cancel the reservation??
To do otherwise would leave open a massive loophole that will, no doubt, be exploited by all those who don't care about the intent of a particular program.
Quote:
Also if you have a reservation for 10 days but only a 5 day ticket included in the package, will you be able to book FP+s for all 10 days or for 5 days since your ticket only shows you will be able to be in the parks for 5 days, not 10?
Given WDW's on-line track record, I think it's beyond their ability to limit FP+ reservations to five days of a ten-day reservation. Besides, there's nothing that says you won't extend your five-day ticket to ten while there.
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:46 AM   #644
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I understand and agree with several things you say but I still believe Disney has a HUGE uphill battle to pull these off-site guest into this booking in advance. They will have NO contact with these off-site guest until the day they show up at the park. No pays attention to commericals! How else will Disney reach them? I guess maybe Facebook?? But am I the only one that just gives the post from businesses a passing glance?? The fact is, planners are planners, will learn about the system and MAY decided to book FP+s in advance. These are the same ones that have been using the current system. Non-planners are non-planners and could very well have no idea this system is even in place. Disney can not change the way people are!! My DSIL is very much a non-planner. I can see NOTHING Disney will do that will make her book her FP+s 60 days out. I can't even get her to decide if they want to have dinner together tomorrow night!!! BUT that is a whole different problem than this FP+!

I think there is a chance that Disney hopes this will change things but I really believe it has NOTHING to do with making ANY guest happier or spreading around the FPs. There is a chance this may be the results but there is also a chance that some of the things we worry about may be the results also. It could very well be some of both! But I believe Disney's goal as nothing to do with the guest but with their bottom line. They just want to find a way to make everyone believe they are doing this to make guest happier. Some will be, some will not and some will know no difference but that is not their goal!
In this climate though a lot of Disney's trade comes from return guests imo. Yes they need to attract new guests but they also need to keep attracting repeat guests.

Who are the ones who will know about FP already? Repeat guests. I know a lot of people in the UK who go and stay in a Villa regularly and who use FP. In fact I'd say the majority of people I know who go to WDW go offsite and use FP.

So I think there will be a fair number of repeat off site guests who will know of FP. If not, an aggressive poster campaign and suggestions from CM's they meet can help to spread the news.

I understand there will be a smaller percentage of offsite guests who know of FP than On-site guests, but it's no reason to exclude offsite from prebooking. And I do think people will start to learn.

I hope they set aside a lot of that budget for advertising though. They could make it a part of ordering tickets and vacation packages through Disney, one of the steps to go through. That might help spread the news.
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:49 AM   #645
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...I just want to point out a different perspective other then the current one that appears to be prevelent on this thread.

If I think my post is going to be too hot, I may not actually submit it, because it does NO ONE good when intelligent threads get locked.
I don't see anything controversial in there yet...
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