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Old 05-15-2013, 09:40 AM   #31
Spacedog1975
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Originally Posted by ChipnDale79 View Post
Please tell me that you don't think this is ok....
I can't speak for intent, though I would guess that prior statements indicate they have no problem with it. I can speak to this:

There is a difference between illegal and unethical, and they don't always meet. Same with "rules". Just because you aren't running afoul of the rules does not mean that you are being ethical or fair.
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:42 AM   #32
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There is a difference between illegal and unethical, and they don't always meet. Same with "rules". Just because you aren't running afoul of the rules does not mean that you are being ethical or fair.
100% agree.
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:42 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spacedog1975 View Post
I can't speak for intent, though I would guess that prior statements indicate they have no problem with it. I can speak to this:

There is a difference between illegal and unethical, and they don't always meet. Same with "rules". Just because you aren't running afoul of the rules does not mean that you are being ethical or fair.
I totally agree!

Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you SHOULD do something!

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Old 05-15-2013, 09:44 AM   #34
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What rules were broken?
Ethics, for one. But circumventing the traditional tour structure raises a lot of red flags, rule-wise. Its like when you go to the grocery store and there are free samples. While they are indeed free samples, if you were to take the entire tray for yourself, you would probably be called out on it, and be considered "breaking the rules" even though there aren't any specific rules set in place. There are understood rules that one can encounter in life; a lot that don't necessarily NEED to be posted on signs or in official literature, its just common sense.
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:45 AM   #35
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I apologize if this was posted in any of the other threads.

From Dream Tours site:
http://www.dreamtoursflorida.com/vip-tours/
Due to inaccurate press and slander, Dream Tours is not offering VIP tours at this time. Our focus has primarily always been providing magical vacations for adults with special needs and helping their dreams to come true.

From the NY Post article:
Ryan Clement runs Dream Tours Florida with girlfriend Jacie Christiano, whom the rich Manhattan mom indicated was her family’s guide.

A working phone number for Christiano couldn’t be found, and Clement refused to put The Post through to her. A message left on Facebook was not immediately returned by Christiano.

Clement denied that his gal pal uses her disability to bypass lines. He said she has an auto-immune disorder and acknowledged that she uses a scooter on the job.


The first question is if Jacie needs the scooter or if it's a "prop".

Next question is if anything wrong is being done. There has been a rumor that the non-Disney private guides don't just use the normal strategies we use. Make good use of fast passes. Go to popular attractions when the lines tend to be short. Rumor is they have some helpful CMs who generate extra FPs for them or who let them enter the FP lane with a valid FP. Not a reach to think a CM may let a group with a person in a scooter skip the regular line, even when the attraction has ques large enough. Despite the rule we've seen it happen.

There is also the possibility Jacie, and her boyfriend, are good at embellishing their results. Distract their group so they don't see the estimated waiting time sign at Small World. Does a first time guest know what a 2 1/2 hour line at Small World looks like. Good thing you hired me. Instead of waiting 2 1/2 hours we'll be boarding the next boat that can accommodate our needs.
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Old 05-15-2013, 01:16 PM   #36
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http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/15/us/dis...nes/index.html

Disney is investigating.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/nationa...2ugf7PvqQAAiaO
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Old 05-15-2013, 01:58 PM   #37
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GOOD!
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Old 05-15-2013, 02:26 PM   #38
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This is one that really infuriates me. My wife has Progressive MS and is relegated to a wheelchair. We have 4 children ages (14,12,7 and 2) when we go to DW we always see the alternate acess area for wheelchairs being abused by normal very capable of walking families. My children enter with us because we dont want them to be separated. But when I see grown adults all clammering to follow their disabled family member when they could just as easy get in the regular line it makes me mad. I have seen the look CM's give these groups as well, it is like they are thinking the same thing. We are going next summer and have been talking about just using FP to get around all of the drama.
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Old 05-15-2013, 02:37 PM   #39
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This is one that really infuriates me. My wife has Progressive MS and is relegated to a wheelchair. We have 4 children ages (14,12,7 and 2) when we go to DW we always see the alternate acess area for wheelchairs being abused by normal very capable of walking families. My children enter with us because we dont want them to be separated. But when I see grown adults all clammering to follow their disabled family member when they could just as easy get in the regular line it makes me mad. I have seen the look CM's give these groups as well, it is like they are thinking the same thing. We are going next summer and have been talking about just using FP to get around all of the drama.
Depending on how this is happening, I might also be frustrated. This said, I have been to Disney 5 times, 3 of those times with my niece, nephew, sister, brother in law, and mother. While I've never required any special access considerations, I would not want to be seperated from my party if they were being diverted for any reason.

I'll reiterate though that ADA style access should not be abused by anyone. Abuse is not fair to those who play by the rules and get in the regular lines,a nd it is especailly not fair to people who actually require the access.
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Old 05-15-2013, 02:45 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Spacedog1975 View Post
Depending on how this is happening, I might also be frustrated. This said, I have been to Disney 5 times, 3 of those times with my niece, nephew, sister, brother in law, and mother. While I've never required any special access considerations, I would not want to be seperated from my party if they were being diverted for any reason.

I'll reiterate though that ADA style access should not be abused by anyone. Abuse is not fair to those who play by the rules and get in the regular lines,a nd it is especailly not fair to people who actually require the access.
I totally agree. I just get frustrated by those that just (In my Opinion) abuse the privilege. My wife most of the time refuses to even go to the ADA entrance and goes through the line. She only uses the alternate entrance when she is getting tired or overheated.
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Old 05-15-2013, 02:50 PM   #41
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Agree

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizznee Freak View Post
This is one that really infuriates me. My wife has Progressive MS and is relegated to a wheelchair. We have 4 children ages (14,12,7 and 2) when we go to DW we always see the alternate acess area for wheelchairs being abused by normal very capable of walking families. My children enter with us because we dont want them to be separated. But when I see grown adults all clammering to follow their disabled family member when they could just as easy get in the regular line it makes me mad. I have seen the look CM's give these groups as well, it is like they are thinking the same thing. We are going next summer and have been talking about just using FP to get around all of the drama.
My son is Paraplegic and my niece is has very strong special needs on the Autism spectrum. Anyone who abuses GAC's without a disability has a reservation being held in HEdouble hockey sticks for them. The world is a pretty unfriendly place to disabled people and ADA enforcement is sometimes is pretty scant. This story is a horrible reflection on the worst types of human beings. Shame shame shame.
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Old 05-16-2013, 05:02 AM   #42
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What I am seeing is this is coming from an author who wrote a book about the behavior of the 1 %. What's sensationalizing it is that they are talking about skipping lines at Disney, and using diabled people to do it.

Now, is anyone really surprised that the rich do things that are unethical and don't believe the rules for the rest of us apply to them? That is often how they got there to begin with - by stepping on the backs of others.

But, truthfully, isn't this something anyone that's been on these boards have heard before. We've all heard stories of people using "grandma in a wheelchair who doesn't really need it" to "skip the lines". The thing is, Disney has done a lot over the years to make it more "fair" for those disabled. It used to be they got first priority, now it is not quite that good a situation.

Even so, don't we all know that Disney has VIP program for the rich anyways? They mention in the article that hiring this guide is cheaper, but is it really that much of a difference? I though the Disney VIP was like $150 a hour as well.

Look, I don't disagree that if this is true that it is wrong, but I think it's making a mountain (albeit a small one) out of a molehill.
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Old 05-16-2013, 05:07 AM   #43
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hmmmm something is indeed fishy...
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Old 05-16-2013, 07:28 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizznee Freak View Post
This is one that really infuriates me. My wife has Progressive MS and is relegated to a wheelchair. We have 4 children ages (14,12,7 and 2) when we go to DW we always see the alternate acess area for wheelchairs being abused by normal very capable of walking families. My children enter with us because we dont want them to be separated. But when I see grown adults all clammering to follow their disabled family member when they could just as easy get in the regular line it makes me mad. I have seen the look CM's give these groups as well, it is like they are thinking the same thing. We are going next summer and have been talking about just using FP to get around all of the drama.
Where do you draw the line?

We plan to go to WDW with my mother and stepfather next year. She generally uses a wheelchair due to nerve damage in her leg. She can walk short distances but cannot stand in a line for long (or anywhere for long). The whole point of our trip is for us all to go together, so they can have a trip to WDW with their grandchildren. Should my mother ride every ride alone while we go through the regular lines? We don't want to cut the lines at all, but to ride together, just as we would if she were able to stand in the lines. Are three other adults and two children too much?
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Old 05-16-2013, 07:54 AM   #45
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The lines for almost all attractions at WDW are "mainstreamed". This means that the queue is set up to allow wheelchairs and/or ECVs to go through the line just as a person without a mobility problem. As it was built prior to the ADA, the Magic Kingdom is most likely to have non-mainstreamed lines. Some attractions, such as Splash Mountain and Haunted Mansion you will go part way through the regular queue and then be diverted. Other attractions, such as Big Thunder Mountain or SpaceShip Earth you will initially be directed to an accessible entrance.

All the theaters are set up with seats (usually in the back row) removed so a wheelchair or ECV can pull into a space and there will be regular seating on either side of the space for the others in the party.

Where there are quantity limits on space, or other limitation involving accessibility, you may have to wait longer to see a show or ride an attraction than people without disabilities.

The normal (and official) response of Guest Relations to people with mobility and/or stamina issues is to recommend rental of a wheelchair or ECV. The Guest Assistance Card (GAC) is intended for "invisible" disabilities not related to mobility or stamina. A wheelchair or ECV is sufficient to notify Cast Members of special assistance normally needed. However, if a person has other issues, such as auditory or visual, they would probably also need a GAC.

Note that a GAC is not intended to allow bypassing of lines, and it so states on the card itself. The only people who will get the special Front Of The Line GAC are where a terminal or medically fragile child is traveling on a trip from Make A Wish or similar foundation.
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