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Old 05-14-2013, 10:02 AM   #61
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Putting any discussion about the morals of this practice aside for a moment, here is what I see.

You have these 1% families who have the money to pay high dollar amounts to get what they feel is unattainable for the common folk. They would not consider for a minute doing research into WDW to find effcient touring plans, or how FP's work. They pay others for everything. So the fact that they can use this service and in their view get on rides faster then they will pay and use it.

Now those more knowledgable like the vast majority of folks on this board have the ability to dispute every facet of the article and know that other than Christmas day you will never see a 2 1/2 wait for IASW will call BS to that claim/

So I see it more as a rich, self described priviledged family paying way to much money to go to WDW. Want to bet they stayed concierge floor at the Grand Floridian? Want to bet all dinner reservations were made by a travel agent?

On the other side of the coin is the tour guide. A girl with a real disability is able to make money while doing something she probably loves, going to WDW.

So who is losing in this situation? A rich person spends to much money for a service she could get much cheaper and would probably get her on rides faster? Who cares. A girl with a disability makes a living doing something she loves, good for her! The average parkgoer? This is not slowing my plans down at all. And if they do prevent this type of thing from happening then the rich person spends more money to get the VIP service. Either the guide or the VIP service is something I will never use (unless I win the lottery I might try the VIP tour) and do not feel that it inhibits my current touring plans in any way.

So in the end it seems to be much ado about nothing.

Finally bringing back the moral aspect even if you object on that basis then are you really saying that you don't think a physically challenged person can't be a tour guide?

I think the newspaper was just looking for another story to help the common man dislike the rich.
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:03 AM   #62
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Dream Tours posted on their FB page, in response to someone asking about the article:

Don't believe everything you read. Take a look at our website before making judgement calls based on articles that are going to be in trouble by the ADA. This article has no validity and is based on discrimination. We do many wonderful things for the special needs community.
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:03 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by dlove28 View Post
I agree that there are soulless people out there but I am not sure I agree with the outrage on this. Surely the woman from the article is someone of high means but low class. She is the type of person that thinks they are owed an entitlement and clearly lacks character.

But as the PP said - look at it from a different light. It doesn't mean the entire practice is bad. A person with a disability is making good use of a challenging situation. They have a competitive advantage and are using it (putting aside the argument on just how much better a GAC is over proper planning and fast passes).

If you hired a tour guide, showed up that day and it was someone in a EVC would you decline their services? If you had an excellent time with them and a great day, would you rehire them next time or would you pass because of the GAC? If you say pass, that's getting into a discrimination grey area.

Someone is offering you a cheaper rate and potentially faster lines,why wouldn't you hire them? Should someone with a disABILITY not be allowed to be a tour guide?

The jerks from the article are not placing an ad on Craigslist looking for a disabled person to exploit. They are hiring a professional that has held themselves out for hire.

I think the real issue here should be the sense of entitlement exhibited by some, not that handicapped people are being given jobs.

Perhaps they ask for references not because they're shady, but they are tired of negative reactions to of people who cannot separate a legitimate business that does not go against any policy from some of the people that hire them and then brag to the Post that they exploited someone.
This. While the people from the article might be a bit self important, I really don't see anything wrong with this practice in general. No one is being taken advantage of, no one is being unfairly inconvenienced, and no rules are being broken.
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:04 AM   #64
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Does GAC/a wheelchair really allow you to skip THAT many lines?

I broke my foot 2 weeks before our runDisney trip in 2012. I was in a walking boot and ran Expedition Everest. That was a big mistake (duh) and after the 5k I was in a wheelchair to tour the parks. From what I recall, we still waited in almost all of the lines except for HM at MK and maybe BTM?

Just insane to me.
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:07 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by cfw213 View Post
I find all these inquiries about whether or not it is against Disney policy to do this a bit unsettling. Just because it's not breaking the "rules" doesn't mean it's not morally wrong!
What is morally wrong is very subjective.

I find some things that I feel are morally wrong that you may not and vice versa.

There is a line of thought processing and logic on the DIS that people feel as long as they are following Disney rules or what Disney allows, then they are not doing anything "morally wrong"
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:07 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by ses1230 View Post
Dream Tours posted on their FB page, in response to someone asking about the article:

Don't believe everything you read. Take a look at our website before making judgement calls based on articles that are going to be in trouble by the ADA. This article has no validity and is based on discrimination. We do many wonderful things for the special needs community.
Do they explain what they mean by "special entrance to fast pass line" on their website?


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Old 05-14-2013, 10:09 AM   #67
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LOL This story is hilarious.

Keep in mind that it was reported by the New York Post, so there's about a 90% chance that it's completely made up.

Can't decide (if it's true) if it's morally wrong or just hilarious.
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:11 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by UNCFanatik View Post
What is morally wrong is very subjective.

I find some things that I feel are morally wrong that you may not and vice versa.

There is a line of thought processing and logic on the DIS that people feel as long as they are following Disney rules or what Disney allows, then they are not doing anything "morally wrong"

Well, morally wrong would be lying and faking a disability in order to do this. Someone with a legit disability offering their services isn't in any way morally wrong. If they were kidnapping disabled folks and forcing them to do this, then it would be wrong. Of course, no one is doing that.
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:18 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by agavegirl1 View Post
I'm beginning to think this article is a gross exaggeration if not a downright fabrication based on a conversation a "reporter" with some "entitled mom" who thought she was getting a great deal or using her money to buck the system. 2 1/2 hours for IASW??? Really???
Actually, I'm thinking the young tour guide on the scooter probably just wanted her guests to believe that they were getting their money's worth. She may also have wanted them to see her disability as an advantage instead of a disadvantage. I can just imagine the entitled mom in the article showing up at the meeting place, seeing the young lady on a scooter, and making a face. And then being told, "No, me being on a scooter is a PERK!"

I can't say if the young lady oversold the whole "special access" thing, or if the entitled mom built it up in her own mind to make herself feel extra special, but I'd guess most tour guides want their guests to feel like they're getting a deal and "beating the system". Part of being a good tour guide is leaving your guests happy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alice99 View Post
I believe it is morally wrong for anyone to engage in this type of arrangement.... exploiting a handicapped person for this purpose is inexcusable.

But, then why does no one object to Disney VIP tours, which charge an astronomical amount of money and get front of the line privileges.
Why does a "normal, middle income" family stand on lines, while the rich go to the front of the lines with the VIP tour.

And for those of you who will say they do not go to the front of the lines, I've seen it myself.
I don't. The disabled have just as much right to work as anyone else. If she's being paid fairly, and outside guides are permitted by Disney, then she's not being "exploited". I mean, can you imagine saying to a mobility impaired person, "No, YOU can't be a Disney tour guide, because that would be exploitation. Only able-bodied people are allowed to be Disney tour guides, because they don't make us feel bad."??

As for the official Disney VIP tours, they're open to anyone who wishes to pay for them. And they're limited in number. At $275.00-$315.00 an hour, even "middle income" families can afford them - it's all in how you prioritize. You could give up next year's vacation, tell the kids there's no more music lessons, eat nothing but counter service and pack porridge in your suitcase. We make these kind of cost-benefit decisions every day.

The only "immoral" thing here is the attitude of the entitled mom who was interviewed for the story. And the reporter for failing to fact check and deciding to go with a sensationalist approach that's likely to lead to people calling up private tour companies and demanding a "disabled guide". Talk about awkward!
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:19 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happygirl View Post
that is beyond sad. What a lesson to teach your kids



Yep, let's teach our children that we should lie, cheat and take advantage of others to get what we want in life. It is disgusting.
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:21 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by alice99 View Post
........

And for those of you who will say they do not go to the front of the lines, I've seen it myself.
Did you perhaps see someone pass you in a fast pass line while you were in standby? Or are you saying that you watched someone enter from the back of the line and go directly to the very front of the line and board a vehicle or is in a theater? I really do not know how you could even see this as the line entrances and the attraction vehicles or seats are quite far apart and are certainly not visible at the same time to one person,

I know on the safari ride people in wheel chairs and scooters are moved quickly through the fast pass and standby lines because they are then shown through a gate and placed in another usually very long line that is out of sight of the other two lines, It is a much longer wait in the gated line to board special vehicle as there are only a few of them. The perception is that these special people Move to the front of the line and this is not the case at all! We always wait longer in the gated line than even the standby line for the safari.

Some of the Disney run, very expensive VIP tours, will take special guests, like celebrities, through back areas of the attractions and then put them into boarding or seating areas. Disney says this is necessary for crowd control and the safety of the ViP. Years ago, during one of the Disney run promotion this perk was offered at sporadic times to random guests. My family was picked out of the line for the VIP entrance at Soarin'. It was fun to go back stage but it was the same area we had seen on the Behind The Seeds Tour.

There are also a few Disney run Backstage Tours that give the paid participants front row setting for a show. I can remember seeing Peter Pan lead a group through the exit and into the front seats in a theater.

Let me define Front Of Line access as some one who is taken right from the entrance of the attraction ride (back of all lines) and taken directly to the boarding cars or seating. This is only done for MAW kids and a few exceptions like the ones I mentioned above.

Being in a wheelchair gives you a sore butt, poor circulation to your legs, and a poor view of everything in the park. The view is normally other guests butts. It certainly does not get you directly onto rides or into shows.
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:22 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brerrabbit View Post
Putting any discussion about the morals of this practice aside for a moment, here is what I see.

You have these 1% families who have the money to pay high dollar amounts to get what they feel is unattainable for the common folk. They would not consider for a minute doing research into WDW to find effcient touring plans, or how FP's work. They pay others for everything. So the fact that they can use this service and in their view get on rides faster then they will pay and use it.

Now those more knowledgable like the vast majority of folks on this board have the ability to dispute every facet of the article and know that other than Christmas day you will never see a 2 1/2 wait for IASW will call BS to that claim/

So I see it more as a rich, self described priviledged family paying way to much money to go to WDW. Want to bet they stayed concierge floor at the Grand Floridian? Want to bet all dinner reservations were made by a travel agent?

On the other side of the coin is the tour guide. A girl with a real disability is able to make money while doing something she probably loves, going to WDW.

So who is losing in this situation? A rich person spends to much money for a service she could get much cheaper and would probably get her on rides faster? Who cares. A girl with a disability makes a living doing something she loves, good for her! The average parkgoer? This is not slowing my plans down at all. And if they do prevent this type of thing from happening then the rich person spends more money to get the VIP service. Either the guide or the VIP service is something I will never use (unless I win the lottery I might try the VIP tour) and do not feel that it inhibits my current touring plans in any way.

So in the end it seems to be much ado about nothing.

Finally bringing back the moral aspect even if you object on that basis then are you really saying that you don't think a physically challenged person can't be a tour guide?

I think the newspaper was just looking for another story to help the common man dislike the rich.
Great post. Far too often I see these threads being used as a means for people to assert their perceived moral authority over others. Not pointing fingers in this thread at all - I just appreciate that there are still people out there who analyze information objectively instead of immediately running it through the "outrage" filter.
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:23 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Magpie View Post
Actually, I'm thinking the young tour guide on the scooter probably just wanted her guests to believe that they were getting their money's worth. She may also have wanted them to see her disability as an advantage instead of a disadvantage. I can just imagine the entitled mom in the article showing up at the meeting place, seeing the young lady on a scooter, and making a face. And then being told, "No, me being on a scooter is a PERK!"

I can't say if the young lady oversold the whole "special access" thing, or if the entitled mom built it up in her own mind to make herself feel extra special, but I'd guess most tour guides want their guests to feel like they're getting a deal and "beating the system". Part of being a good tour guide is leaving your guests happy.



I don't. The disabled have just as much right to work as anyone else. If she's being paid fairly, and outside guides are permitted by Disney, then she's not being "exploited". I mean, can you imagine saying to a mobility impaired person, "No, YOU can't be a Disney tour guide, because that would be exploitation. Only able-bodied people are allowed to be Disney tour guides, because they don't make us feel bad."??

As for the official Disney VIP tours, they're open to anyone who wishes to pay for them. And they're limited in number. At $275.00-$315.00 an hour, even "middle income" families can afford them - it's all in how you prioritize. You could give up next year's vacation, tell the kids there's no more music lessons, eat nothing but counter service and pack porridge in your suitcase. We make these kind of cost-benefit decisions every day.

The only "immoral" thing here is the attitude of the entitled mom who was interviewed for the story. And the reporter for failing to fact check and deciding to go with a sensationalist approach that's likely to lead to people calling up private tour companies and demanding a "disabled guide". Talk about awkward!

Seems like they promote the fact that you'll skip lines https://www.biddingforgood.com/aucti...3?id=190040561

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Old 05-14-2013, 10:24 AM   #74
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I've seen (on FB) someone, who is a local with a GAC, brag openly about her "front of the line pass" (that's what SHE called it) AND offer at least one FB friend the opportunity to meet up--so she can "help them out".

I understand that she may completely need her GAC, but to offer to help others out by using it is just wrong, IMO.
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:27 AM   #75
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That's sick. My niece is special needs and my sister spends a lot of time taking care of her. We try not to use the GAC pass but if the line is longer then about 15 minutes she can't handle it. But she only uses it for 4 people. (We usually have about 12 to 20 in our group.) Some one goes with my sister to help her and my niece gets to pick 1 cousin to go with her. All others wait in the regular line.
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