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Old 05-10-2013, 11:01 PM   #136
dadddio
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Still, there is a ton of speculation in this thread. If you want to make decisions based on the speculation, that's fine, but that doesn't make the speculation fact, or 'official'.
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:16 PM   #137
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Still, there is a ton of speculation in this thread. If you want to make decisions based on the speculation, that's fine, but that doesn't make the speculation fact, or 'official'.
You have said this 100 times. We have lots of official information from Disney. Until they change it, it is what we should use.
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:51 PM   #138
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You have said this 100 times. We have lots of official information from Disney. Until they change it, it is what we should use.
We do have lots of official information. The problem is that people are taking this official information and then extrapolating from it and then taking that speculation and playing a weird game of telephone with it until the end result is completely removed from the official information that was put out by the company.
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Old 05-11-2013, 12:15 AM   #139
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We do have lots of official information. The problem is that people are taking this official information and then extrapolating from it and then taking that speculation and playing a weird game of telephone with it until the end result is completely removed from the official information that was put out by the company.

Isn't that what's supposed to happen on message boards?

Seriously, I trust the readers to evaluate what they are reading and decide for themselves what makes sense and what doesn't.

For example, in my own situation, speculation in January led me to believe that FP+ might be in force by the time of our March trip, but keeping tabs on the topic throughout February led me to the conclusion that there was little likelihood of it coming to pass.

Happily that turned out to be right, and frankly, it doesn't sound at this point like FP+ will be here before the fall (if even then).
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Old 05-11-2013, 08:22 AM   #140
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We do have lots of official information. The problem is that people are taking this official information and then extrapolating from it and then taking that speculation and playing a weird game of telephone with it until the end result is completely removed from the official information that was put out by the company.
This is why the collection of links to all the information is important. Anybody has the opportunity to read the material.

And there is a difference between known information and hope. The biggest sticking point so far is whether or not someone can book three FP+ in advance and then access the regular in the park.

All official language suggests no. It says it clearly in the terms and conditions.
The question has been asked on all forums - it is the biggest question. But Disney is choosing to not respond any differently than the stated terms. They must know, this will be a problem. If the intent was to use both, Disney would have said this and allayed fears. But, right now we have terms and conditions and it says no. Nick Franklin, danced around the topic in his interview. He was very careful about this subject.

Most people are hoping that they have access to both, and are adamant that ths is Disney's intent. But this is clearly speculation, because nothing supports that (except CM stories).

I would encourage people to read the updated terms and conditions. They are clearly stating how the entire program works. They are logical and well defined.

But to be fair, there isn't a specific number listed in the terms for FP+, it says it can vary day to day, season to season, park to park, and even maybe based on your ticket type. But nick Franklin, v.p. in charge of program did specifically say three per person.

But it does clearly say one park per day and you have to choose either the new system or old not both.
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Last edited by bcrook; 05-11-2013 at 08:29 AM.
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Old 05-11-2013, 08:50 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by bcrook View Post
This is why the collection of links to all the information is important. Anybody has the opportunity to read the material.

And there is a difference between known information and hope. The biggest sticking point so far is whether or not someone can book three FP+ in advance and then access the regular in the park.

All official language suggests no. It says it clearly in the terms and conditions.
The question has been asked on all forums - it is the biggest question. But Disney is choosing to not respond any differently than the stated terms. They must know, this will be a problem. If the intent was to use both, Disney would have said this and allayed fears. But, right now we have terms and conditions and it says no. Nick Franklin, danced around the topic in his interview. He was very careful about this subject.

Most people are hoping that they have access to both, and are adamant that ths is Disney's intent. But this is clearly speculation, because nothing supports that (except CM stories).

I would encourage people to read the updated terms and conditions. They are clearly stating how the entire program works. They are logical and well defined.

But to be fair, there isn't a specific number listed in the terms for FP+, it says it can vary day to day, season to season, park to park, and even maybe based on your ticket type. But nick Franklin, v.p. in charge of program did specifically say three per person.

But it does clearly say one park per day and you have to choose either the new system or old not both.
Thank you bcrook for your well thought out post. I also appreciate the blog with dated entries of what we know about FastPass+. Having a systematic, factual list is great.
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Old 05-11-2013, 08:51 AM   #142
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I have been reading everything I can on FP+ and what disappoints me is the thought of having to plan that far out what I want to do. I know some things have said changes can be made but it just seems too close to the 180 ADR's. I dislike having to decide that far out when and where I am going to eat to even have a chance to get into certain places. Heck, I didn't even plan my trip to Disney 180 days out.

I am sure this will appeal to those who love to plan things out like that and that is wonderful but I just feel those of us who like to fly by the seat of our pants are getting more and more left out at Disney.

I do hope they keep the regular fastpass system and it doesn't take away from the available fastpasses there. We shall see.
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Old 05-11-2013, 09:00 AM   #143
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I have been reading everything I can on FP+ and what disappoints me is the thought of having to plan that far out what I want to do. I know some things have said changes can be made but it just seems too close to the 180 ADR's. I dislike having to decide that far out when and where I am going to eat to even have a chance to get into certain places. Heck, I didn't even plan my trip to Disney 180 days out.

I am sure this will appeal to those who love to plan things out like that and that is wonderful but I just feel those of us who like to fly by the seat of our pants are getting more and more left out at Disney.

I do hope they keep the regular fastpass system and it doesn't take away from the available fastpasses there. We shall see.
Just to be clear, the "regular FP system" will have to go away because once they start using the MagicBands, there won't be a magnetic stripe for the legacy FP machines to read. What remains vastly unclear is whether there will be a same-day component to FP+ that resembles the current FP system.
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Old 05-11-2013, 09:01 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by bcrook View Post
The biggest sticking point so far is whether or not someone can book three FP+ in advance and then access the regular in the park.

All official language suggests no. It says it clearly in the terms and conditions.
This statement made me pause and retread the T&C. I could find no verbiage that suggested that same-day additional FPs would not be available. What verbiage are you basing this statement on?
Quote:
The question has been asked on all forums - it is the biggest question. But Disney is choosing to not respond any differently than the stated terms. They must know, this will be a problem. If the intent was to use both, Disney would have said this and allayed fears. But, right now we have terms and conditions and it says no. Nick Franklin, danced around the topic in his interview. He was very careful about this subject.
I wouldn't call that an interview. The entire clip was less than two minutes long. The bit with Franklin was less than half of that and was chopped up to the point where you can't be sure what the actual question was that he was responding to or even if there were questions and he was just giving a quick spiel. In my opinion, almost nothing can be taken away from it.
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Most people are hoping that they have access to both, and are adamant that ths is Disney's intent. But this is clearly speculation, because nothing supports that (except CM stories).
It is speculation, but a few things point to it.

First, the T&C suggest that you can. It states that your initial FP selections will be 'an experience set'. It further explains that you and your connected friends may make FP selections that will count toward the total number of FPs that you can hold. This certainly suggests that the initial three (or whatever) isn't the total number of FPs that can be had.

Second, every test of FP+ had preselected FPs and the ability to get more on-the-fly. While these on-the-fly FPs were from the old machines, there is no reason to believe that they won't be able to be obtained virtually through MM+. Doom-and-bloomers like to forecast information based on how the tests ran. I befuddles me that they always ignore this bit.
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But it does clearly say one park per day and you have to choose either the new system or old not both.
Agreed. It also is clear that you can only have one FP per ride per day.

Last edited by dadddio; 05-11-2013 at 11:11 AM.
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Old 05-11-2013, 09:03 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by figment5 View Post
I have been reading everything I can on FP+ and what disappoints me is the thought of having to plan that far out what I want to do. I know some things have said changes can be made but it just seems too close to the 180 ADR's. I dislike having to decide that far out when and where I am going to eat to even have a chance to get into certain places. Heck, I didn't even plan my trip to Disney 180 days out.
The saving grace for me is that once I plan my ADRs, I know what parks I will be in on what days. That makes it pretty easy to select FPs 60 days out.
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Old 05-11-2013, 09:07 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by figment5 View Post
I have been reading everything I can on FP+ and what disappoints me is the thought of having to plan that far out what I want to do. I know some things have said changes can be made but it just seems too close to the 180 ADR's. I dislike having to decide that far out when and where I am going to eat to even have a chance to get into certain places. Heck, I didn't even plan my trip to Disney 180 days out.

I am sure this will appeal to those who love to plan things out like that and that is wonderful but I just feel those of us who like to fly by the seat of our pants are getting more and more left out at Disney.

I do hope they keep the regular fastpass system and it doesn't take away from the available fastpasses there. We shall see.
If you read the article quoting the CFO, He explains that having people plan further out helps lock them into staying at Disney and not be distracted by the other new attractions like Antarctica at SeaWorld.

I guess it really depends on what you want to fly by the seat of your pants to do. If you want to have drinks at la Cava or eat at yak n yeti, you won't be affected. You can still easily watch all the shows, catch off kilter, enjoy shopping, fireworks, illuminations, and parades without much change. Many of the rides will still be easily accessed.

I would say fly by the seat of your pants type visitors would have considerable trouble with the e-ticket attractions and things like enchanted tales with belle or Jedi academy. And even most of those attractions should have FP+ available the day of. The times might not be ideal.

The thing about limiting everyone to three FP+ selections means there will always be selections for lots of things available for walk ups the day of. Of course, all bets off for toy story midway mania.
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Old 05-11-2013, 09:10 AM   #147
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The thing about limiting everyone to three FP+ selections means there will always be selections for lots of things available for walk ups the day of. Of course, all bets off for toy story midway mania.
Thats where the one FP per ride per day rule becomes important.
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Old 05-11-2013, 09:18 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by Missyrose View Post
Just to be clear, the "regular FP system" will have to go away because once they start using the MagicBands, there won't be a magnetic stripe for the legacy FP machines to read. What remains vastly unclear is whether there will be a same-day component to FP+ that resembles the current FP system.
Thank you, I didn't really think about that.
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Old 05-11-2013, 09:20 AM   #149
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The saving grace for me is that once I plan my ADRs, I know what parks I will be in on what days. That makes it pretty easy to select FPs 60 days out.
That is true, and we have had to adjust to planning which park we will be in so that we can make our ADR's.
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Old 05-11-2013, 09:28 AM   #150
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This statement made me pause and retread the T&C. I could find no verbiage that suggested that same-day additional FPs would not be available. What verbiage are you basing his statement on?
I wouldn't call that an interview. The entire clip was less than two minutes long. The bit with Franklin was less than half of that and was chopped up to the point where you can't be sure what the actual question was that he was responding to or even if there were questions and he was just giving a quick spiel. In my opinion, almost nothing can be taken away from it.
It is speculation, but a few things point to it.

First, the T&C suggest that yu can. It states that your initial FP selections will be 'an experience set'. It further explains that you and your connected friends may make FP selections that will count toward the total number of FPs that you can hold. This certainly suggests that the initial three (or whatever) isn't the total number of FPs that can be had.

Second, every test of FP+ had preselected FPs and the ability to get more on-the-fly. While these on-the-fly FPs were from the old machines, there is no reason to believe that they won't be able to be obtained virtually through MM+. Doom-and-bloomers like to forecast information based on how the tests ran. I befuddles me that they always ignore this bit.
Agreed. It also is clear that you can only have one FP per ride per day.
It is simple, if Disney intended for people to race to park and log In to their phones and snatch up more FPs on top of their prebooked three, it would be stated in the terms and trumpeted all over. That would be amazing. There would be very little to talk about. Everyone would agree this could be cool. I posted from the parks last year in June how excited I was about being able to use my iPad to book FP from my room or my wife's phone in the park for times I wanted and without running all over the park. That would be a huge public relations score.

But the devil is in the details. This is about turning FP into a marketing, management, and data tool. For that to work all the FP have to be collected and doled out equitably to the 125,000 plus people a day. That doesn't lend itself to easy and free access by patrons. The FP are now valuable chips to be earned.

It is ok. The rules have changed. Some will benefit others won't. But understanding that changes may not be good for all and then articulating how those changes will be negative for some is not doom and gloom. It is smart business practice.

Disney is a business and they are regularly lauded for finding new ways to make more money.

But, I am a consumer along with hundred of thousands of others on this board, and it is our job to carefully watch how products are changing and evaluate if the product is still worth the cost.

I appreciate all the insightful comments from all perspectives. I also appreciate your enthusiasm Dadddio. It does help provide hope. I want the FP+ to work as you dream. I just can't find any support of it.
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