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Old 05-01-2013, 06:22 PM   #91
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This thread has gone nuts.
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Old 05-01-2013, 06:53 PM   #92
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I think it's important to remember that this will never prevent all sex offenders from entering WDW, but that said, there are now 75 fewer. I'll take it. Any drop in that bucket is one that could have splashed a child.
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Old 05-01-2013, 07:26 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by faindrops27 View Post
Ok, I am speaking specifically about sexual predators/offenders, who have sexually abused children. Why would anyone befriend, date, or marry a person who they know has raped a child?
That's not the issue at all. You said that anyone who is a significant other, be it a friend love interest etc..., should not be allowed into the parks. You are transferring a punishment from someone convicted of a crime to someone who has done nothing wrong which is ridiculous. I'm all for keeping those who actually committed the crimes in question out of the park, but those who have done nothing wrong being denied access? Come on.
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Old 05-01-2013, 07:54 PM   #94
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I'm sure there are a lot of people that think they are going to be safer at WDW with reports that Disney is now looking for sexual predators. But, in reality? No change whatsoever!!! And I have never thought that Disney, or anyone else for that matter, needs to make life safer for my child. That is my job!! I watch my child in the pool...even though there are lifeguards there, watching. I always knew where my child was, and who she was with, when she was younger. Did I obsess each time she went to the rest room by herself? Nope. Yes, bad things happen to nice people. I get that. But, I am not going to be looking for the boogey man around every corner.
And I really hate the idea that the kid that got drunk and mooned someone when he was 20 and at college is now going to be denied access to WDW. Yes, he is going to be on that offender list. It's been said that the 'list' is changing but not fast enough for all concerned.

And the thought that Disney would expend that kind of money to track sex offenders? That they would have a data base listing them all?? Seriously??? Believe me.....there are pedophiles in WDW right now. They haven't been caught yet, so not on any list anywhere. Are you all feeling safer because someone said that Disney has found a grand total of 75?? I'm not. They are out there...everywhere. So, take responsibility for your own families. Life is no different now than it was 20 years ago...we are just more aware of it thanks to the media!!! We had a pedophile that lived in the house behind ours when I was growing up. I played with this guys kids, in barns and old chicken coops on their property. Thank God I was never touched. But there were rumors. And imagine my father's surprise, after we moved about 25 miles away, when I was 10, to see this former neighbor walking down our new town's main street!! He reported the guy to the police who kept an eye on him. My point?? They are out there.....we need to be aware and take care of our own families. I can only begin to imagine the cost of maintaining a data based of this magnitude!!! And Disney can't figure out how to keep their dining site up and running efficiently!! Can't imagine how they would deal with something like this!!!
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:41 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by ChoppityChops View Post

So what you're saying is that Disney shouldn't bother, because it's pointless... Well then... I'll go ahead and say that while you are entitled to your opinion, I am glad you are not in charge of the safety programs at the parks.
I don't think the poster was saying that at all. He simply pointed out that there are many problems with these lists. I don't see that he said anything close to Disney shouldn't bother or the rule was pointless.
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:40 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by goofy4tink View Post
I'm sure there are a lot of people that think they are going to be safer at WDW with reports that Disney is now looking for sexual predators. But, in reality? No change whatsoever!!!
Sure there's a change. There are apparently 75 fewer people to worry about.

Nobody is saying that Disney has put a "predator-free zone" stamp on its theme parks. Of course parents still need to monitor their kids. But doing that 24/7 is impossible and this move has made the parks just a LITTLE bit more safe.


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I can only begin to imagine the cost of maintaining a data based of this magnitude!!! And Disney can't figure out how to keep their dining site up and running efficiently!! Can't imagine how they would deal with something like this!!!
Registered sex offender lists are readily available. It's no great challenge to cross-reference such a list with a Passholder database, and flag select individuals.

And that sort of a project has no relationship to dining websites. Just because Disney has had hiccups with its online systems during recent upgrades doesn't mean all of Disney IT is incompetent. 8th graders can perform rudimentary database matches.
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Old 05-02-2013, 12:19 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by faindrops27 View Post
Ok, I am speaking specifically about sexual predators/offenders, who have sexually abused children. Why would anyone befriend, date, or marry a person who they know has raped a child?
*Sigh* It's still not clear. Are you talking about the offenders themselves or their families and friends too?

Here you said ...
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Originally Posted by faindrops27 View Post
The thing I find disgusting as well are the people who make excuses for them.. Befriend, date, marry them..I wish they could be banned too, to me they are just as bad..
... which was why am confused about exactly who you want banned from Disney parks. You don't seem to want to own that original comment and you keep on tap dancing around it.

Here is a real simple yes/no question: Do you want the friends and family of the sex offenders who molest children banned from WDW too?
YES - The predators and their family and friends should all be banned.
NO - Only the predator should be banned.

FTR, I have no idea why people would befriend, date or marry someone who raped a child. I have no clue why you keep on asking me that . Maybe you should ask arthropodtodd since he works with offenders.
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Old 05-02-2013, 12:26 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by TheShea's View Post
Interestingly enough, FDOC (FL Dept of Corrections) indicates that Sex Offenders have a high recidivism rate.

http://www.dc.state.fl.us/pub/recidi...toffenses.html
You might want to have read the this report in closer detail. It groups parole violations, non-sexual new offenses, and new sexual offenses in one "recidivism" rate. Many of my younger clients go back on parole violations for alcohol or drug use, failing to get a job, or some other parole violation. In fact the younger the offender, the more likely they will get in trouble with the law again. So that high number is not accurate.

Now Florida does have higher sexual recidivism rate of 5.2% over 5 years and 13.7% after 10 years. Many in my field would point to Florida's mis-management of offenders as one of the reasons.

Mind you I think WDW policy is a good one, and I will contend is a PR move, as Disney is about making money. If sexual assault occurs on site, it could mean a loss of revenue and public relations nightmare. Disney does not want to see their brand in a headline with the words "sexual offender" or "sexual assault", etc. so they aren't going to publicize what they are doing. The best PR moves are not made in front of a camera.

I think it is sad when people are tossing stones at any criminal, regardless of the offense and this is coming from a guy who is pro-death penalty, and supports long sentences, etc. What we don't realize is that we are a part of problem. We have created a culture where someone who might be having some horrible thoughts cannot seek out help with getting reported. We have people hanging posters and looking for the neighborhood child molester, trying to make their life difficult, who end up increasing the offender's chance of re-offending. Case in point, residency restrictions increases recidivism rates.

90% of my clients are "normal" looking and acting guys who started down a path filled with distortions about reality. You wouldn't be able to pick them out of a crowd if you tried. I had had attorneys, police, firemen, architects, doctors, nurses, teachers, landscapers, vets, Disney lovers, carpenters, etc, as clients. Sexual offenders are in many ways no different than the drunk, the drug addict, the thief, the wife beater, the fighter, all of whom can and often to physically violate another person. The difference being the sexual component. Because all these other people violate against minors all the time and no one does anything about it. Now I am not trying to defend or excuse their behavior. You do the crime, you do the time. There are monsters out there who have no idea what they are doing, ie. pedophiles, they just don't see the wrong hence they are dangerous. But, I do believe that most of these guys, if even the right treatment and tools to make up some of their emotional deficits, can make better choices that as result protect other children.

I have often been asked why work with sex offenders. One it is like the super bowl every day, you never know what will happen; like having two murders in class discuss the best way to move a dead body or that moment when a client can fully take responsibility for their behavior and finally get on a better track. But i have done this job because I believe people can change, be it the drunk and addicted, or the offender.

Personally I hope this thread get shut down as it is less about the news of this story and discussing some of the actual research, but has turned into a a thread where the villagers are getting their torches and pitchforks ah la Gastone and are ready to storm the Beast's castle.
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Old 05-02-2013, 05:51 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arthropodtodd View Post
You might want to have read the this report in closer detail. It groups parole violations, non-sexual new offenses, and new sexual offenses in one "recidivism" rate. Many of my younger clients go back on parole violations for alcohol or drug use, failing to get a job, or some other parole violation. In fact the younger the offender, the more likely they will get in trouble with the law again. So that high number is not accurate.

Now Florida does have higher sexual recidivism rate of 5.2% over 5 years and 13.7% after 10 years. Many in my field would point to Florida's mis-management of offenders as one of the reasons.

Mind you I think WDW policy is a good one, and I will contend is a PR move, as Disney is about making money. If sexual assault occurs on site, it could mean a loss of revenue and public relations nightmare. Disney does not want to see their brand in a headline with the words "sexual offender" or "sexual assault", etc. so they aren't going to publicize what they are doing. The best PR moves are not made in front of a camera.

I think it is sad when people are tossing stones at any criminal, regardless of the offense and this is coming from a guy who is pro-death penalty, and supports long sentences, etc. What we don't realize is that we are a part of problem. We have created a culture where someone who might be having some horrible thoughts cannot seek out help with getting reported. We have people hanging posters and looking for the neighborhood child molester, trying to make their life difficult, who end up increasing the offender's chance of re-offending. Case in point, residency restrictions increases recidivism rates.

90% of my clients are "normal" looking and acting guys who started down a path filled with distortions about reality. You wouldn't be able to pick them out of a crowd if you tried. I had had attorneys, police, firemen, architects, doctors, nurses, teachers, landscapers, vets, Disney lovers, carpenters, etc, as clients. Sexual offenders are in many ways no different than the drunk, the drug addict, the thief, the wife beater, the fighter, all of whom can and often to physically violate another person. The difference being the sexual component. Because all these other people violate against minors all the time and no one does anything about it. Now I am not trying to defend or excuse their behavior. You do the crime, you do the time. There are monsters out there who have no idea what they are doing, ie. pedophiles, they just don't see the wrong hence they are dangerous. But, I do believe that most of these guys, if even the right treatment and tools to make up some of their emotional deficits, can make better choices that as result protect other children.

I have often been asked why work with sex offenders. One it is like the super bowl every day, you never know what will happen; like having two murders in class discuss the best way to move a dead body or that moment when a client can fully take responsibility for their behavior and finally get on a better track. But i have done this job because I believe people can change, be it the drunk and addicted, or the offender.

Personally I hope this thread get shut down as it is less about the news of this story and discussing some of the actual research, but has turned into a a thread where the villagers are getting their torches and pitchforks ah la Gastone and are ready to storm the Beast's castle.



I respect your field of work and your opinion Sir.

But the villagers are tired of lawyers and *pros* in the field that by worrying more about the predators and having limited success in keeping to bad guys away from our families and then telling us we should not worry about it!


In these kind of situations, the Villagers have the right to take up the torch's and pitch forks (in this case really Disney tiring to protect our families and calling it PR is wrong) and protect our kids. Whether it help Disney if their is a problem I really don't care. I applaud them for the effort!

Shutting down discussion is not a answer....just a way out!

PS..So I don't appear unfair, I fully agree with this....people can change Now tell me how to make sure which ones are the few (IMHO), that won't attack their wife's, kids, others and I would be happy to see them in WDW or anywhere!


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Old 05-02-2013, 07:31 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjkraz View Post
Sure there's a change. There are apparently 75 fewer people to worry about.

Nobody is saying that Disney has put a "predator-free zone" stamp on its theme parks. Of course parents still need to monitor their kids. But doing that 24/7 is impossible and this move has made the parks just a LITTLE bit more safe.




Registered sex offender lists are readily available. It's no great challenge to cross-reference such a list with a Passholder database, and flag select individuals.

And that sort of a project has no relationship to dining websites. Just because Disney has had hiccups with its online systems during recent upgrades doesn't mean all of Disney IT is incompetent. 8th graders can perform rudimentary database matches.
Then lets get those 8th graders to work at Disney IT!! Disney is always having issues with their site....just look at how many people are always complaining about it.
But, I digress. Sure, there are 75 fewer pedophiles at WDW...but are they true 'pedophiles' or are they people who may have done something much less serious. I just don't feel any safer....and I would still be watching my own children (if they were that young) myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonka's Skipper View Post
I respect your field of work and your opinion Sir.

But the villagers are tired of lawyers and *pros* in the field that by worrying more about the predators and having limited success in keeping to bad guys away from our families and then telling us we should not worry about it!


In these kind of situations, the Villagers have the right to take up the torch's and pitch forks (in this case really Disney tiring to protect our families and calling it PR is wrong) and protect our kids. Whether it help Disney if their is a problem I really don't care. I applaud them for the effort!

Shutting down discussion is not a answer....just a way out!

PS..So I don't appear unfair, I fully agree with this....people can change Now tell me how to make sure which ones are the few (IMHO), that won't attack their wife's, kids, others and I would be happy to see them in WDW or anywhere!


AKK
You truly can't take only the info that 'proves' your point and ignore all other info!! That merely weakens your point. There are many 'reformed' criminals out there. Pedophiles included. I suppose you would prefer them to have a big ole RP branded on their foreheads that shows they are 'reformed'?

Even if this was a case of Disney PR, it doesn't make one whit of difference to me. And my opinion is just as valid as yours. So, if you go to WDW now and feel safer, then fine. But I truly think it's a false sense of security. And that's worse, by far!!!
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Old 05-02-2013, 07:35 AM   #101
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This is my job. I work for a major children's hospital and I scan Id's all day. We scan everyone. It's a program called Easy Lobby. There is no reason why Disney couldn't use it. It would expensive to start up due to license fees for each scanner. They could require Names and birthdates for ticket purchase and run them at that time not park entry. It's just a shame these scumbags can't be detected before they're caught and registered.
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Old 05-02-2013, 07:44 AM   #102
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T

DID YOU READ THE POST YOU QUOTED? Did you understand what Traveliz posted?

It's impossible to check an online site if you don't know the person's name or address.
Not true you can check just by state
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Old 05-02-2013, 07:52 AM   #103
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I'm still waiting for T Skipper's link documenting a FL law requiring photo ID from every guest checking into a room.

I'll retract my previous statement if he will supply documentation regarding any new policy which allows merchants to require photo ID (normal circumstances) as a requirement for customers.

Actually all states riquire it but it's only for the person who's name the room is under
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Old 05-02-2013, 08:47 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by goofy4tink View Post
Then lets get those 8th graders to work at Disney IT!! Disney is always having issues with their site....just look at how many people are always complaining about it.
But, I digress. Sure, there are 75 fewer pedophiles at WDW...but are they true 'pedophiles' or are they people who may have done something much less serious. I just don't feel any safer....and I would still be watching my own children (if they were that young) myself.


You truly can't take only the info that 'proves' your point and ignore all other info!! That merely weakens your point. There are many 'reformed' criminals out there. Pedophiles included. I suppose you would prefer them to have a big ole RP branded on their foreheads that shows they are 'reformed'?

Even if this was a case of Disney PR, it doesn't make one whit of difference to me. And my opinion is just as valid as yours. So, if you go to WDW now and feel safer, then fine. But I truly think it's a false sense of security. And that's worse, by far!!!
Goof, what did I leave out?...........in red I stated people can change!

I also pointed out that there are *degrees* to the crimes and that the sties are being revised and improved.

I never said anyone should be branded

I stated its not perfect. Does that mean we should just do nothing?


Where did I say your opinion is worth more or less then mine?


BUT THE BOTTEM LINE IS, ANY CRIMINAL LOSES HIS OR HERS RIGHTS, WHEN THE SAFELY OF MY FAMILY OR ANYONES FAMILY IS CONCERNED!

When they are proved reformed. I'll open the gate myself! There are just to many repeaters out their and the heinous nature of these crimes does not permit guess work on the part of the alleged experts, as their record proves.



As to false sense of security, I beg to disagree and believe almost all parents and people out there are to smart to be tricked into that. They know they need their guards up!


AKK

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Old 05-02-2013, 09:18 AM   #105
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Security Theater that, according to the referenced article, has prevented at least 75 sex offenders from entering Disney Parks. Sounds like they're doing a pretty good job at catching what they can with the information that's available to them.
I'm not seeing how kicking 75 people out proves that they are doing a good job.

Imagine a hypothetical scenario where 25 of those 75 were the dumpster pee-ers and romeo/juliet teenagers and that 200 other random SOs were let in the gates. Is that 75 still evidence of good performance?

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So what you're saying is that Disney shouldn't bother, because it's pointless... Well then... I'll go ahead and say that while you are entitled to your opinion, I am glad you are not in charge of the safety programs at the parks.
No one is suggesting that they shouldn't bother.

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If you read my posts you would have found that nothing is 100%............in this case they have the names and addresses of every annual pass holder and guest at all Disney resorts........some 27,000 plus beds.

There are other facial systems and they can ask for your ID any time.
Could you imagine the firestorm on these boards if it was found that Disney was running facial recognition on their guests? It would make the RFID paranoia pale in comparison.

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I used google and what you've been saying isn't true.

I'm waiting for the link regarding FL law requiring photo ID from all guests checking in.
There clearly is no such law since very typically the easiest way to check in is to send one parent to the counter while the other hits the giftshop or food court with the kids.

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Originally Posted by Paula Sedley-Burke View Post
Good for you AKK re your children & grandchildren. Basically I agree with what Disney is doing. Because there is always a reason something is not 100% full proof but for me I would rather they try even if it just stops a small percentage. My home security system is not 100% intruder proof but it does eliminate say opportunists but ultimately I know if a person really is determined of course they can get in. But I am still willing to guard against the others to lessen my odds!
My issue is not with Disney taking steps to keep identifiable, known sexual predators out of the parks. I get that this is only going to stop a very small percentage of them out and I'm OK with that. My only issue is that their policy seems to also kick out non-predatory offendors simply because they got dumped onto the SO list. That's kind of a bummer.

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Originally Posted by arthropodtodd View Post
It is a PR move in the sense that if anything should happen on Disney property, which is has in the past, then they can stay a head of things in the press showing off what they have been doing. It is a preemptive PR move.
It would also serve them well in the event of a lawsuit, I suspect. They would be able to show that they make appropriate efforts to keep out known sexual predators and have security precautions in place to minimize any predatory activities in the parks.

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No, not innocent. Those who befriend, marry, date, or defend them..Why would anyone want to know, or get to know a sex offender?
I think that you and others are using 'sex offender' and 'sexual predator' analogously. However, I believe that this misses the point (or skews it, perhaps).

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Not true you can check just by state
Absent the person's name or even what state he/she is from, this check is going to be very difficult.
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