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Old 04-25-2013, 12:08 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DizBelle View Post
How did limiting food by sticking with a diet not work but limiting food by surgical change did? This is the part I don't understand...
I think sometimes people just don't have the willpower to do it without the surgery. That becomes dangerous because that forced willpower erodes overtime as the body adapts. If the bad habits aren't also addressed along with the surgery it will not work long term. It isn't really any different than yo-yo dieting or jumping from one fad diet to another. It will only work if it is a jumping off point to new habits but that is true of all avenues of weight loss, surgery or otherwise.

Last edited by FireDancer; 04-25-2013 at 01:56 PM.
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:10 PM   #17
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Ive lost a lot of weight, half my body weight actually. It took me 2 years without surgery, but somehow managed. That said, I am a believer that ANY tool you can use to help, is a good thing.

Weight loss surgery, like any kind of aid, is just that, an AID. If you see it as a quick solution, it won't work. Big successful weight loss involves many, many changes. You must figure out how you got to where you are and be willing to change it. If not, it won't work, nothing will.

Different things work for different people. The mental aspect of facing what might seem like a daunting task (losing so much weight and knowing its going to take long) is just as important as the physical aspect of controlling your food intake. Surgeries, drastic, quick loss at first, they can all help to keep you motivated and overcoming weaknesses that are hurting you.

Smaller stomachs, help reducing appetite, etc, all aid. But like I said, they are AIDS, and no long term success will be had if you don't use them that way. That is why you see some people not be successful. It's why you see people gain weight after a diet. Its not that the diet was bad because "after you lose, you gain right back", its because the person probably went right back to old habits.

Im all for whatever helps. Just realize its YOU that needs to make the change, the surgery, crash diet, etc, won't do it for you.
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:11 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DizBelle View Post
How did limiting food by sticking with a diet not work but limiting food by surgical change did? This is the part I don't understand...

I understand there is about to be a pile on about how nasty fat people are. I'll pass on that.

However to answer this question, the weight starts coming off because it's almost equivalent to "starving" oneself at first. Basically that person has cut their food/calorie instake by 75% or more and feels fuller faster. If they are maintaining an exercise regiment then they are going to lose the weight faster because they outputting more calories than intaking.

With straight diet and exercise, if someone is used to eating a specific amount and think about how much it could take to make one feel "full" then that person is just fighting to output the calories from just that day and for some that is a fighting battle.

I'm a fat girl. I'm not as fat as I was and I will always be fat to an extent but I do pay attention to what I eat and follow a pretty good exercise plan. I'm healthier for it of course but not skinnier for it. I'm okay with that even if others around me want to put the finger and judge.

Okay back to the fat people pile on.
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:15 PM   #19
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I don't think it is necessarily bad but also don't think it is the best approach. My biggest issue with the surgery is that it only addresses one aspect of the cause of the patient's obesity...eating too much. It doesn't teach them what they should be eating, address any emotional or psychological issues such as comfort eating, and doesn't address other lifestyle factors.

Losing a lot of weight should take time and should come from a lot of lifestyle changes. If these lifestyle changes are all done and, more importantly, stuck with for the remainder of your life, I do think most people will lose weight without surgery and keep it off long term. If a patient wants to speed up the process with surgery they can but if they ignore all the other issues and expect the surgery to be a catch all they will almost certainly end up gaining all the weight back.
I agree with you but wanted to mention - nutrition classes as well as counseling sessions with a psychologist are required before the surgery will be conducted at a reputable practice offering weight loss surgery. My friend just had the surgery and I have attended the information session for the same hospital group that performed her surgery. Therapy sessions are an absolute pre-requisite, as well as multiple nutrition sessions because what the person will be able to ingest (especially initially) will be radically different after the surgery. Of course, there are 3 different weight loss surgeries (probably more but I only learned about 3 options) - so each would provide the recipient different results. In general, lap band will result in the least amount of weight loss but allows for more "freedom" to eat.
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:18 PM   #20
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My sister had the gastric bypass. My nephew wa 2 years old and she didn't want to be the fat mom. She has steadily gained weight her adult life. She tried various weight loss plans but none seemed to stick.

She did have counseling prior to her surgery and a nutritionist talked to her group about proper eating habits. The surgery not only makes your stomach smaller but bypasses part of your intestines so you don't absorb as much.

It was wildly successful for her. She has kept the weight off several years. She makes sure to eat her protein then her veggies before drinking at a meal. She used to be an emotional eater (like all of us sisters) but has overcome that.

Her doctor says she was a great candidate because although she was morbidly obese, she didn't have any health conditions yet.

OP, in my opinion some people do need the surgery. Some people can lose the weight without intervention but others can't.
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:22 PM   #21
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And, the difference between limiting food by surgery or just plain limiting food is...hunger. Hunger is a basic drive and something you can only fight for so long. People who limit food through surgery do not feel strong hunger pangs, so it's easier.

Eventually, as anyone who has tried to limit food for any length of time will tell you...hunger will always win.

Then you add the addiction/compulsion component that I mentioned earlier, and it's hard.

But weight loss surgery is no quick or easy fix and I for one, do not believe it should be covered by surgery, if it is.
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:25 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovemygoofy View Post
I understand there is about to be a pile on about how nasty fat people are. I'll pass on that.

However to answer this question, the weight starts coming off because it's almost equivalent to "starving" oneself at first. Basically that person has cut their food/calorie instake by 75% or more and feels fuller faster. If they are maintaining an exercise regiment then they are going to lose the weight faster because they outputting more calories than intaking.

With straight diet and exercise, if someone is used to eating a specific amount and think about how much it could take to make one feel "full" then that person is just fighting to output the calories from just that day and for some that is a fighting battle.

I'm a fat girl. I'm not as fat as I was and I will always be fat to an extent but I do pay attention to what I eat and follow a pretty good exercise plan. I'm healthier for it of course but not skinnier for it. I'm okay with that even if others around me want to put the finger and judge.

Okay back to the fat people pile on.

I've seen no "fat people pile on" in this thread.... at least not yet. I hope it doesn't come.
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:25 PM   #23
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I have a friend who had gastric bypass 3 years ago. I and our other friends tried to help her lose weight naturally, but she was determined to have the surgery (even putting on an extra 20 lbs. so she'd meet the minimum requirement). I have to admit that if I tried to hug her, I could not get my arms around her.

She has lost more than half her weight and kept it off. We're happy for her, but what gets to us is if we try to go out for dinner, before we order, she shoves the menu aside, then sits there with a dejected look on her face. Then she gets out a little laminated card that says "This patient is a gastric bypass patient. Please allow her to order a half-portion or order from the children's menu" and it is signed by her doctor. She then flips open the menu...after a few minutes, she'll sigh, push it aside, and put away the card. Then she repeats the process again after a few minutes. We all try to order things she likes so she can pick off our plates, or go to family-style restaurants, but we always get the same reaction.
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:37 PM   #24
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I have had 3 very good friend have g bypass last year. None have had complications. One is at about 14 months out and looks and feels fantastic. She is down 125 pounds, eats properly, has done personal counseling, and exercises 4 days a week. Her problem before was that she solved her emotional issues with binge eating...then she'd gain more weight, feel worse about herself and repeat the process. I think the counseling and then added bonus of not hating her appearance has helped her immensely. I'll be shocked if she gains her weight back because she readily acknowledges that her food addiction was due to emotional issues, and she is dealing with those. The surgery helped the process because she didn't have to have the "willpower" in the beginning because she'd vomit if she overate or ate the wrong foods. Now she's used to her new lifestyle and while she could make poor choices, she chooses not to. It was kinda forced on her with the procedure.

Other one has lost 100 pounds in 9 months - she looks great! She still can't tolerate a lot of different foods and doesn't have a variety in her diet. I also don't think she exercises. I wouldn't be surprised if she gains some back since she doesn't seem to take the "lifestyle change" seriously. Maybe I'm wrong since she's not a big talker.

The last one? Gained 25 pounds in order to qualify for the surgery, has lost 45 pounds in 7 months, doesn't exercise, I know she eats food that's not allowed, will eat until she gets sick frequently, and drinks the fattening coffee drinks daily from Starbucks. I'd be shocked if she DOES have good results.

I think the biggest benefit of the surgery is that it forces you to eat less food in the beginning because otherwise you feel awful. Then it's up the individual to keep up with the lifestyle change. I don't feel as if I can judge since I don't struggle with my weight...sure I'd like to be 20 pounds lighter, but I know if I set my mind to it, I could lose it. I got other issues I can claim. Haha
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:40 PM   #25
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I joined Weight Watchers over a year ago and I have lost 52 pounds. I am currently at my goal weight and struggling every day to stay there. I just wanted to add my 2 cents.

People struggle to lose weight for lots of reasons, all of them personal. For me, it was a struggle mostly because I was surrounded by co-workers and family members that for whatever reason, could NOT stop shoving cupcakes and donuts in my face and saying, come on... one won't hurt you. Come on... just have half... come on... you can have ONE slice of this pizza... just don't write the points down... come on... you may die tomorrow...

THAT was what was the hardest thing to overcome for me. Right now while I type this... my coworkers are out to lunch celebrating a birthday. I stayed at the office.

Please, if you know someone trying to do the right thing... do not sabotage their efforts. Sheesh.
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Old 04-25-2013, 01:03 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apirateslifeforme View Post
I have a friend who had gastric bypass 3 years ago. I and our other friends tried to help her lose weight naturally, but she was determined to have the surgery (even putting on an extra 20 lbs. so she'd meet the minimum requirement). I have to admit that if I tried to hug her, I could not get my arms around her.

She has lost more than half her weight and kept it off. We're happy for her, but what gets to us is if we try to go out for dinner, before we order, she shoves the menu aside, then sits there with a dejected look on her face. Then she gets out a little laminated card that says "This patient is a gastric bypass patient. Please allow her to order a half-portion or order from the children's menu" and it is signed by her doctor. She then flips open the menu...after a few minutes, she'll sigh, push it aside, and put away the card. Then she repeats the process again after a few minutes. We all try to order things she likes so she can pick off our plates, or go to family-style restaurants, but we always get the same reaction.
It sounds like your friend is still having emotional issues with regards to food. It is very hard to change your relationship with food when it has been filling an emotional need.

I have had a gastric band for nearly two years. Having WLS was simply the best thing that I ever did for myself. Prior to surgery, my BMI was in the "morbidly obese" category; I am now 6 lbs away from a normal, healthy BMI. The band helps control physical hunger, so I can make appropriate choices regarding food and portion sizes.

Choosing to have surgery was a choice of last resort. In order to have the surgery, I had to provide my insurance company with a history of my weight loss efforts. I had to show a history of obesity through my medical records. I had to attend nutrition counseling and receive clearance from a psychologist. My sleep apnea has resolved 100%. My AC1 has gone from boderline diabetic to low-normal. My blood pressure readings have dropped from boarderline high to low normal. I no longer have any knee pain or foot pain. At my last doctor's appointment, instead of scheduling a quarterly appointment for follow up, she told to schedule an appointment next year.

My nutritionist accurately compared life after WLS as the difference between driving a car with standard steering versus a car with power steering. I am still in control, but after WLS, it is much easier to go in the right direction.
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Old 04-25-2013, 01:04 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovemygoofy View Post
I understand there is about to be a pile on about how nasty fat people are. I'll pass on that.

However to answer this question, the weight starts coming off because it's almost equivalent to "starving" oneself at first. Basically that person has cut their food/calorie instake by 75% or more and feels fuller faster. If they are maintaining an exercise regiment then they are going to lose the weight faster because they outputting more calories than intaking.

With straight diet and exercise, if someone is used to eating a specific amount and think about how much it could take to make one feel "full" then that person is just fighting to output the calories from just that day and for some that is a fighting battle.

I'm a fat girl. I'm not as fat as I was and I will always be fat to an extent but I do pay attention to what I eat and follow a pretty good exercise plan. I'm healthier for it of course but not skinnier for it. I'm okay with that even if others around me want to put the finger and judge.

Okay back to the fat people pile on.

Not as much a "pile on" but a lot of people who never had the problem telling those who do how easy it is to overcome...

I've never drank so I could NEVER tell an alcoholic to just stop.

I've never done drugs so I could never tell an addict to stop taking them.

But it amazes me how some self righteous people feel the need to tell people how to control their demons. Their demons are their OWN, not yours.

I was a fat kid with two thin GORGEOUS sisters. They gave me hell. I went to Weight Watchers at 14 and lost the weight and besides fluctuating a bit after kids I've kept most of it off. BOTH of my sister gained weight as they grew older and neither of them knew what to do because they hadn't learned HOW to do it. Now they're both bigger than me... karma is a female dog, isn't it?

Okay back to the pile on...
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Old 04-25-2013, 01:24 PM   #28
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Not as much a "pile on" but a lot of people who never had the problem telling those who do how easy it is to overcome...

I've never drank so I could NEVER tell an alcoholic to just stop.

I've never done drugs so I could never tell an addict to stop taking them.

But it amazes me how some self righteous people feel the need to tell people how to control their demons. Their demons are their OWN, not yours.

I was a fat kid with two thin GORGEOUS sisters. They gave me hell. I went to Weight Watchers at 14 and lost the weight and besides fluctuating a bit after kids I've kept most of it off. BOTH of my sister gained weight as they grew older and neither of them knew what to do because they hadn't learned HOW to do it. Now they're both bigger than me... karma is a female dog, isn't it?

Okay back to the pile on...
I am sorry but this post is forcing me to reply. I read this whole thread and there was no "pile on" as you say. The OP asked what I think was a legitimate question. I too often wonder myself why diets etc. couldn't work because you had to limit your portions yet WLS - which limits your portions- does. I know a few people who have had the surgery. One died, one was successful in losing weight but eats garbage and you can tell by looking at her, the others have lost some weight but not enough imo to warrant a life threatening surgery. Of course I respect their choices. Nobody on this thread has told anybody how to "control their demons" as you say. In fact, I thought this was a really great thread with a lot of good dialogue going on. There wasn't a "pile on", nobody was berating heavy people, nobody was "telling" anyone anything. I think people are genuinely curious. I admit that I am. I will say that I personally have mixed feelings about the surgery. If it worked for someone that's great but I don't think it is really a solution for most. JMHO of course.
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Old 04-25-2013, 01:35 PM   #29
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The surgery can help because it makes it painful to eat more than very small portions, can cause nausea and vomiting, things like that that make it unpleasant to eat certain things. Weight loss surgery is not for everyone. We don't hear about the people who had to have the surgery reversed due to malabsorption issues, etc.

Some people have difficulties losing weight due to hormonal imbalances and other conditions. These conditions can be difficult to diagnose and manage. I'm working at mine. I still get some people telling me I should just skip a few meals to lose weight. They absolutely do not understand how diabetes works.
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Old 04-25-2013, 01:37 PM   #30
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Weight loss is really one of those things that everyone has opinions on don't they? As a gastric bypass patient 10 years out from surgery let me share a few of my personal insights/experiences with all of you and then I have no doubt you will be sure to let me know how I could have done things differently if I had willpower or self control and didn't take the "easy" way out by having a major surgical procedure.

I have been fighting my weight my ENTIRE life - always the fat kid (both parents 100 lbs over weight). Started Weight Watchers at 12 years old. Gained and lost 100 lbs more than once on WW. I could tell you the points in almost anything. Try me.

I have also tried every fad, prescription diet drugs that gave terrible side effects, went to nutritionists, etc. So please don't tell me I did't "try" hard enough. Hard enough for who? Also please do not tell me I lack willpower. I have had the willpower to reach my educational and career goals, have a great family, supportive friends, no addiction or abuse issues. Totally normal girl - except that I was over 300 lbs and getting bigger.

I was on high blood pressure medication and looking forward to type II diabetes, joint issues, etc. Believe me I know the dangers of obesity. Then add the fact that it is very difficult to be a fat kid/teen/adult. Unless you have been there you will not understand the level of teasing and name calling that overweight people are subjected to.

So, in my mid 30's I made the incredibly brave decision to seek weight loss surgery. This was a 2 year process that included psychological and nutritional counseling as well as medical testing and monthly support groups. This was not something I took lightly or viewed as an easy answer to my weight issues.

My surgeon told me I had a less that 5% chance of losing weight and keeping it off without medical intervention. This is not true for all GB patients but it was true for me.

So - let's fast forward 10 years. Surgery went great - no complications thankfully. I see my doctor for follow up visits, take my vitamins, and exercise 2-3 times per week. I lost 130 pounds. I am still overweight and would like to lose more for my health. I take NO medications and am very healthy. Just celebrated my 10th wedding anniversary and had a wonderful daughter almost 7 years ago who is the joy of our lives. None of this would have been possible for me without weight loss surgery.

So before you go on talking about how "is it really necessary" or "if those overweight so and so's would just stop stuffing their faces". Just think a bit before you speak - put yourself in someone's shoes for a bit .
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