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Old 04-23-2013, 12:31 AM   #31
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The driver asked our family of 9 to get off the bus until after he loaded the wheelchairs. He asked us to stand right outside the front door of the bus and we would be the first ones loaded.
I've seen post that indicate that our extended family party of 8 should expect to be on different buses, so your party of 9 maybe could have chosen to split up at that point.

It's not something I agree with. I think a group shouldn't be required to split up. (our group would often CHOOSE to split up, but it's a different thing to choose vs being forced to)

Of course, if that party is one of 30, I then still have to believe that THEIR group shouldn't have to split up, either.



Quote:
Originally Posted by rainynight View Post
I don't understand why Disney has it set up where EVC users can skip in front of others.


They should at least limit the amount of people who can go along with the disabled guest to make it fair for others. That's one of the big reasons we are spending part of our next stay off site and driving down.
From what I remember, it used to be because they tried to follow the ADA laws by allowing those on wheels to get on first. How does that help? Because if they are loading, then come to a person in a wheelchair/scooter and do not have room for them, then to keep things fair, they have to say they don't have room for anyone else. So a half-full bus would need to leave, to follow the laws in that respect. Therefore, they had the wheelchairs/scooters stay OUT of the line and visible, so they knew what they were dealing with when they pulled up, and could load accordingly.

That seems to have changed officially, but it might be that some drivers just want to do it the older way.

They DO have a limit on the number of people officially, but just like so much else at Disney, there seems to be some discretion. As I mentioned above, I don't like the ideas of groups being forced to split up. My aunt has FINALLY agreed to a Rollator (she still has a prejudice against scooters because someone in one once ran over her daughter's foot and didn't stop, sigh) and if she can go to the parks because of it, we'll all be a party of 8, and darnit, I don't want to HAVE TO split up. If she's ever in a scooter, I don't want to have to split up. It just bugs me.

You don't have to stay offsite in order to drive. We stay onsite and drive. We're actually finally giving up the buses entirely going forward, after our most recent trip; either driving or juts budgeting extra for cabs, so it's funny for me to still have an opinion on this, but I hold lots of opinions on things that don't directly impact me.


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Originally Posted by ttintagel View Post
No, that is not a normal occurrence. I wonder if there was some special circumstance you couldn't hear about.



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Originally Posted by joelkfla View Post

As for exhaust gases in the back of the bus, that's not normal. Please notify the driver so he can request service.
Good to know! That's what I thought, too. I've never smelled exhaust back there; if I did, it would worry me greatly!


Quote:
Originally Posted by SueM in MN View Post
As for moving out of the bus if people are sitting on the front seats, I wonder if there was more going on then the OP knew about. Or, that driver had had some situations where people had almost gotten hit and was not taking any chances.
I agree with those wonderings.
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Old 04-23-2013, 05:34 AM   #32
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Just remember the ECv and wheelchair passengers may be the first on but they are also the last off. So while you are walking into mk looking at the castle they are just getting off the bus to start the trip to the kingdom
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Old 04-23-2013, 06:28 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by stitchlovestink View Post
I respectfully disagree with you on ECV users getting preferential treatment. Try using one and see how 'not so easy' it can be! Especially late at night when they double stack the buses and that AUTOMATICALLY precludes you from being able to access that 2nd bus! Is that preferential treatment? Or when it's really busy and they bring in a NON-Disney bus such as a Mears motorcoach that is not H/C accessible? Is that preferential treatment? Or when there are problems with the bus where they can't get it to kneel properly and you have to wait for another.
Where I think the 'true' problem lies is that the bus drivers need to enforce the rule of 6 guests INCLUDING the ECV user. I think that is generous when it comes to adults. If they are kids, well then fine, they need adult supervision. But adults could split up after even 4, IMO (realistically 2, but 4 is reasonable).
But there have been many times where I was 'NEXT' but had to wait for another bus because of the above circumstances. So I don't see the preferential treatment. Sometimes it takes me way longer to get somewhere because the buses can only take 2 (some can take 3) ecvs at a time. Of course, I go to WDW more than the average person! But that it my .02 on preferential treatment.
Oh, believe me, I truly get it. I have spent time with a friend using an ECV at WDW...it was eye opening!! It's incredible how they are treated by other guests. I think everyone should spend some time with a friend using an ECV at WDW and see how that goes.
I guess 'preferential' was a bad choice of words....but it is seem to be just that by non-ECV guests.

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Originally Posted by joelkfla View Post
I don't know why the driver would ask Guests seated at the front of the bus to get off the bus to load ECV's. I have asked Guests standing near the front to move or, on a rare occasion, step off to make room to maneuver the ECV's into the ADA spaces. I've also asked Guests to move their strollers for the same reason. And if all of the ADA spaces will be filled, I have asked Guests sitting nearby to give up their seats so the ECV occupant doesn't have to sit on the ECV (which is less safe), but I usually get a volunteer, and I believe Guests have the right to refuse if the they are not in a seat with an ADA sign above it.

Resorts with multiple stops present a dilemma for drivers. On the one hand, it's risky to load ECV's onto a bus that's already nearly full; on the other, we feel badly for ECV guests who may already have been left behind by previous buses that were not full, but too full to load them.

Each mobility aid is allowed to have up to 6 Guests load through the back door. I believe that's 6 including the challenged Guest, but I've also heard it interpreted as 6 + 1. The rest of the party is supposed to load through the regular queue. Of course, at resorts where there is no queue, that's pretty much unenforceable.

At resorts that do have queues, and when the queue is full, there's no way for the driver to know whether the challenged Guest arrived before or after the queue filled up, unless the Guest volunteers to wait. So we pretty much have to assume they arrived first. If a Guest arrives in the wheelchair line while the bus is loading and the queue is already full, the driver should ask them to wait for the next bus. I'm not sure whether that's written in the operating procedures, but it's just common sense to me.

As for exhaust gases in the back of the bus, that's not normal. Please notify the driver so he can request service.
Yep. I don't much care if it's a total of 6 or 6 + the ECV. But, a group larger than that? The others need to board the bus with everyone else in line!
I just don't understand why those seated in the front of the bus were asked to get off the bus. I understand why ECVs are boarded first, but not why the driver would ask those seated, in an area that is not in the way, to get off.
I have always felt badly for the poor bus driver who has no idea how long anyone has been at that bus stop, and how long a family with an ECV has been there. I do think that if the ECV is just arriving at the stop, they need to wait for the next bus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SueM in MN View Post
I would say it is not a 'perk' to board first. It is safest for everyone and does make loading faster, as well. And, there is also the issue of buses not being accessible or some reason - things not working, buses double parked and not able to load wheelchairs/ECVs, or those big tour buses that are not accessible at all.

We just got back from WDW on Saturday and actually were at Kidani village for the first 4 days of our trip before going to OKW for the rest of our stay.
This picture is the bus stop sign from Animal Kingdom Lodge. All the resorts have similar in, just themed differently.


The sign is pretty clear that it is parties of up to 6 people total, not 6 plus the person using the ECV or wheelchair. Total of 6 is also consistent attractions in the park.
Any more than 6 should be getting into the line unless the bus is nearly empty when they get on and no one is waiting.

There are some people who do not abide by the number, but most actually do in our experience. Usually, the rest of the party waits outside of the bus until the wheelchair/ECV has been tied down and the driver invites them to board.
But, I've also seen situations where people get on as the driver is busy doing the tiedown of the wheelchair or ECV.

Even more than the people, sometime the strollers are an issue. Some of them folded take up more space thn my DD's wheelchair with her sitting in it. The strollers may be a big part of the reason a bus fills up.

We have been waiting for a bus when those were the only occupied seats and the driver said he could not ask the people sitting in them to move. In many cases, the people will move without being asked, but we have also had very rare situations where we had to wait or the next bus because the people refused to move to another nearby seat.

As for moving out of the bus if people are sitting on the front seats, I wonder if there was more going on then the OP knew about. Or, that driver had had some situations where people had almost gotten hit and was not taking any chances.

On our recent trip, DD's wheelchair was tied down in the farthest front spot when an ECV was loaded at the next stop. I stood just in front of DD's wheelchair, thinking I would be way out of the way. I wasn't and nearly got run into, so I moved up to the very front of the bus. It was only me, but if there had been more of us, we would have run out of space inside the bus.
On a trip at a park going back to our resort, an ECV was loaded into the farthest forward spot and DD into the farther back wheelchair spot. The ECV driver drove almost up to the very front seat trying to manouver.
Some inexperienced people do drive their ECV too fast onto the bus (many do not seem to realize they can put the speed to turtle to make it go slower).

ECVs with 3 wheels can also turn more sharply, which means they take less space to manouver than 4 wheeled models. Some ECVs are also smaller than others; the heavy duty ones.
So, some of those types of things may make a difference.
Perk was a bad choice of words....I apologize. It's certainly not a perk to sit there while everyone else gets off the bus and heads to the park, while you sit there waiting for the bus to empty. I have actually had this experience....large group boards the bus, one person on an ECV. Group was about 12 or so. We all waited while the driver got the ECV situated, and then the entire group was allowed to board. We all got on. I went to the back of the bus...as I walked past the group, I overheard the person seated next to the person that had been on the ECV say 'Well, that certainly worked out great. We need to bring the ECV all the time!!!'...okay. I take my seat. When we got to MK, one of the adults with that group says...'We'll meet you inside the park at Space Mt.' and off she went, with about 10 others in the group. The person on the ECV and a companion waited for the bus to empty. My issue? Why couldn't all those that boarded with the ECV get into the regular line? Oh, I know....they didn't want to be split up as a group...at least not until they got to the park and then all bets were off!!!!
Sue, thanks for your insights here. I know a lot of guests roll their eyes when they see an ECV or wheelchair arriving at a bus stop. And yes, there are always going to be some that take advantage of the ECV usage. But, for the most part, those on ECVs or in wheelchairs need them. And it's insulting to roll your eyes or make snide comments. I have actually made some pretty snide comments in response to overhearing what some have to say about ECVs!!
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:48 AM   #34
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Did you complain.

The need to load a scooter does NOT mean the entire bus should be emptied. In addition, the other passengers should have to board via the front door.

If we don't complain nothing gets changed.
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Old 04-23-2013, 09:20 AM   #35
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Did you complain.

The need to load a scooter does NOT mean the entire bus should be emptied. In addition, the other passengers should have to board via the front door.

If we don't complain nothing gets changed.
Agree- in December (POFQ) and again in March (SSR) there was almost always a dispatcher at the bus stops so in the OP's case that CM would have heard my complaint then and there.
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Old 04-23-2013, 10:11 PM   #36
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Oh, believe me, I truly get it. I have spent time with a friend using an ECV at WDW...it was eye opening!! It's incredible how they are treated by other guests. I think everyone should spend some time with a friend using an ECV at WDW and see how that goes.
I guess 'preferential' was a bad choice of words....but it is seem to be just that by non-ECV guests.


Yep. I don't much care if it's a total of 6 or 6 + the ECV. But, a group larger than that? The others need to board the bus with everyone else in line!
I just don't understand why those seated in the front of the bus were asked to get off the bus. I understand why ECVs are boarded first, but not why the driver would ask those seated, in an area that is not in the way, to get off.
I have always felt badly for the poor bus driver who has no idea how long anyone has been at that bus stop, and how long a family with an ECV has been there. I do think that if the ECV is just arriving at the stop, they need to wait for the next bus.


Perk was a bad choice of words....I apologize. It's certainly not a perk to sit there while everyone else gets off the bus and heads to the park, while you sit there waiting for the bus to empty. I have actually had this experience....large group boards the bus, one person on an ECV. Group was about 12 or so. We all waited while the driver got the ECV situated, and then the entire group was allowed to board. We all got on. I went to the back of the bus...as I walked past the group, I overheard the person seated next to the person that had been on the ECV say 'Well, that certainly worked out great. We need to bring the ECV all the time!!!'...okay. I take my seat. When we got to MK, one of the adults with that group says...'We'll meet you inside the park at Space Mt.' and off she went, with about 10 others in the group. The person on the ECV and a companion waited for the bus to empty. My issue? Why couldn't all those that boarded with the ECV get into the regular line? Oh, I know....they didn't want to be split up as a group...at least not until they got to the park and then all bets were off!!!!
Sue, thanks for your insights here. I know a lot of guests roll their eyes when they see an ECV or wheelchair arriving at a bus stop. And yes, there are always going to be some that take advantage of the ECV usage. But, for the most part, those on ECVs or in wheelchairs need them. And it's insulting to roll your eyes or make snide comments. I have actually made some pretty snide comments in response to overhearing what some have to say about ECVs!!
I should have been clearer -
I CAN see how a group of 9 sitting in the front seats of the bus may have thought they were out of the way, but would be very much in danger of getting their feet run run over by someone trying to park an ECV in the front ECV/wheelchair spot.
I would have not thought I was in danger of getting hit by someone coming in to use the back spot, when my DD's wheelchair was in the front spot, but the ECV came pretty close to my feet.
So, I can see why the driver might ask the 9 people sitting in the front seats to get out while the ECVs were loaded.
They should have been bought back in though before any of the people traveling with the other guests in ECVs were loaded.
I don't know what happened there - did those guests think the ones who got off the bus were intending to get off at that stop?
Did those guests 'take advantage' of the driver being busy doing the ECV tiedowns and just get on?
Did the driver tell the rest of the group to get on without knowing how many people it was?
Were all those people even part of the ECV group? (We have had people get on when the driver was busy with DD's wheelchair, so suddenly our group of 2 plus the wheelchair looks like 10).

So, my way, I think there may be some other things happening than just what was seen.
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Old 04-24-2013, 06:39 AM   #37
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I should have been clearer -
I CAN see how a group of 9 sitting in the front seats of the bus may have thought they were out of the way, but would be very much in danger of getting their feet run run over by someone trying to park an ECV in the front ECV/wheelchair spot.
I would have not thought I was in danger of getting hit by someone coming in to use the back spot, when my DD's wheelchair was in the front spot, but the ECV came pretty close to my feet.
So, I can see why the driver might ask the 9 people sitting in the front seats to get out while the ECVs were loaded.
They should have been bought back in though before any of the people traveling with the other guests in ECVs were loaded.
I don't know what happened there - did those guests think the ones who got off the bus were intending to get off at that stop?
Did those guests 'take advantage' of the driver being busy doing the ECV tiedowns and just get on?
Did the driver tell the rest of the group to get on without knowing how many people it was?
Were all those people even part of the ECV group? (We have had people get on when the driver was busy with DD's wheelchair, so suddenly our group of 2 plus the wheelchair looks like 10).

So, my way, I think there may be some other things happening than just what was seen.
Ahhh, that would make sense. I just haven't seen a bus with such forward ECV spaces. Yes, in the middle of the bus, but not that far forward.
Thanks for the explanation.
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Old 04-24-2013, 10:29 AM   #38
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This is my quick (instant imagineer's) opinion for today.

1. The 9 people who were asked to get off the bus should have refused (or if possible, please move backed*), or,

2. The 9 people who were asked to get off the bus should have forced their way back on. This will guarantee that the bus driver would radio for another bus to come right away, way ahead of schedule, or,

3. (much more complicated) The 9 people should have one person put a complaint in writing, including the name of the driver, the bus number, the time, and a request for two use-anywhere-anytime fastpasses for each of the group. Then all 9 go to Guest Relations to present it.

Yes I favor having families with member(s) in wheelchairs split up with no more than two persons on foot accompanying and assisting. When they do so they will all get to the destination no later than if they declined to proceed to the wheelchair boarding space until after having followed the regular bus queue all the way to the on deck circle.

* All through the town.
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Old 04-24-2013, 10:37 AM   #39
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This is my quick opinion for today.

1. The 9 people who were asked to get off the bus should have refused (or if possible, please move backed*), or,

2. The 9 people who were asked to get off the bus should have forced their way back on. This will guarantee that the bus driver would radio for another bus to come right away, ahead of schedule.

Yes I favor having families with member(s) in wheelchairs split up with no more than two persons on foot accompanying and assisting. When they do so they will all get to the destination no later than declining to proceed to the wheelchair space until after having followed the regular bus queue all the way to the on deck circle.

* All through the town.
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Old 04-24-2013, 11:12 AM   #40
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This is my quick (instant imagineer's) opinion for today.

1. The 9 people who were asked to get off the bus should have refused (or if possible, please move backed*), or,

2. The 9 people who were asked to get off the bus should have forced their way back on. This will guarantee that the bus driver would radio for another bus to come right away, way ahead of schedule, or,

3. (much more complicated) The 9 people should have one person put a complaint in writing, including the name of the driver, the bus number, the time, and a request for two use-anywhere-anytime fastpasses for each of the group. Then all 9 go to Guest Relations to present it.

Yes I favor having families with member(s) in wheelchairs split up with no more than two persons on foot accompanying and assisting. When they do so they will all get to the destination no later than if they declined to proceed to the wheelchair boarding space until after having followed the regular bus queue all the way to the on deck circle.

* All through the town.
Sorry but I would never recommend arguing with a bus driver. And pushing your way back onto the bus? Seriously? Nope, not a recommendation I would make either.
And making a complaint? Sure, go ahead. Have at it. But to go into something like that, you have now taken up more time than you would have spent taking the next bus!!
It is supposed to be that up to 6 can board with the ECV. That's what signage says. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by the splitting up thing. Doesn't make sense to me.

In all reality? There are always going to be some groups of people that want to 'work' the system. And if bus drivers allow it to continue, then it will continue. The bus driver has to get off the bus and put the ramp down...so he knows full well what it happening. He should be stopping an excessive number of people from boarding the bus at the rear door. As soon as guests figure out that the entire group isn't going to be allowed to board, they will get right into the line! Yes, it may mean that they may not get on the same bus, but such is life. It's just not fair for a large group to make others wait (that have been standing there waiting for a long time) while they just arrive and get to board with the guest using an ECV!!! Sure, a few people to help out, but other than that? No.
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:44 PM   #41
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Ahhh, that would make sense. I just haven't seen a bus with such forward ECV spaces. Yes, in the middle of the bus, but not that far forward.
Thanks for the explanation.
This picture from touringplans' blog shows both bus seats on the driver side of the bus that can be folded up and the space used to secure a wheelchair or ECV.


That helps to show how little space is actually available at the front of the bus if the farthest forward wheelchair/ECV spot is being used. When we get in the bus with our DD's wheelchair, we don't go much forward past the spot where she will be parking (if at all).
Many ECV users go the full length of the ECV (so about 4 feet) past where they will park, then turn and back into the spot.
So, someone using the farthest forward seat might drive as far forward as the front bus seat.
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:24 PM   #42
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A few things:

Why would this influence your opionion of AKL? This could happen anywhere.

What do you find it necessary to comment on the physical size of the people in the other party? Would you not have been so unhappy if they were smaller people?
I think he was making a reference to size, since it appears or sounds like the people of size were taking up multiple seats due to their size, and thereby making it even more difficult for others to be able to get on the bus.

Trust me, I have been there sitting next to a person of size on a greyhound bus for 3 hours. The only seat left on the bus and the person of size sitting next to me, was taking up his/er seat and 3/4 of mine. Try sitting for 3 hours with only 1/4 of your backside able to sit in a seat...
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Old 04-24-2013, 05:37 PM   #43
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This picture from touringplans' blog shows both bus seats on the driver side of the bus that can be folded up and the space used to secure a wheelchair or ECV.


That helps to show how little space is actually available at the front of the bus if the farthest forward wheelchair/ECV spot is being used. When we get in the bus with our DD's wheelchair, we don't go much forward past the spot where she will be parking (if at all).
Many ECV users go the full length of the ECV (so about 4 feet) past where they will park, then turn and back into the spot.
So, someone using the farthest forward seat might drive as far forward as the front bus seat.
Dang...gotta get down there and scope out those buses. That one seems to be one of the newer styles!!
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Old 04-24-2013, 07:02 PM   #44
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Dang...gotta get down there and scope out those buses. That one seems to be one of the newer styles!!

Yes, I think a visit is in order!
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Old 04-24-2013, 07:28 PM   #45
seashoreCM
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 21,328

Quote:
Originally Posted by goofy4tink View Post
In all reality? There are always going to be some groups of people that want to 'work' the system. And if bus drivers allow it* to continue, then it will continue. The bus driver has to get off the bus and put the ramp down...so he knows full well what it happening. He should be stopping an excessive number of people from boarding the bus at the rear door..
How does the guest get through to Disney (Disney Transport) management to stop bus drivers from allowing it to continue?
4.

* Guests already on the bus have to get off and they for some reason or other get left behind because the bus got full.
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