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Old 04-19-2013, 09:42 AM   #1
Tonka's Skipper
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For those who like to pontificate that seciruty is all *theater*......

For those who like to think security is all *theater or just a illusion*, here is a incident where is does show a little of the workings behind the scenes:


Suspicious package delays cruise ship at Florida port
Reuters – 15 hrs agoEmail0Share0Share0Print(Reuters) - A suspicious package found at the Port of Tampa, Florida on Thursday on a pallet that was to be loaded onto a cruise ship operated by Royal Caribbean Cruises, was not a bomb, the sheriff's office said.

Two bomb-sniffing dogs found the parcel during a routine security check, said a spokeswoman for the Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office. Explosives experts investigated the package before saying it was harmless.

As a precaution, the sheriff's office evacuated the terminal building being used by Royal Caribbean to check in passengers sailing on its Jewel of the Seas.

(Reporting by Martinne Geller in New York; and David Adams in Miami. Editing by Maureen Bavdek, Kenneth Barry and Leslie Gevirtz)




Yes this incident is involving a cruise ship and it could be any cruise line, or it could be a theme park or sports event, and nothing is 100%, but it shows security measures in place and working!

It could just as easily been a real bomb!


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Old 04-19-2013, 10:07 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Tonka's Skipper View Post

For those who like to think security is all *theater or just a illusion*, here is a incident where is does show a little of the workings behind the scenes:

. . . Two bomb-sniffing dogs found the parcel during a routine security check

Yes this incident is involving a cruise ship and it could be any cruise line . . .
Very true.

One time we arrived at Port Canaveral to board the Disney Magic but the port terminal building was closed. Cast members told us there was a bomb threat and we had to wait across the street in the parking lot. (There was no shade as this was before DCL built the parking structure.)

We waited for around two hours before the ship was cleared. Once onboard, we learned a bomb-sniffing dog had alerted to a piece of luggage, and they had to call the bomb squad to inspect it.

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Old 04-19-2013, 10:12 AM   #3
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The port area was closed for three ships in 9/11/2003 when a suspicious package was found in the parking lot.
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Old 04-19-2013, 10:55 AM   #4
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And packages have been found at a bank in my home town, by the side of the road etc...

Honestly right now it's "shoot first" and I don't blame them but I am not really worried over every shut down etc...
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:12 AM   #5
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I am not trying to be disagreeable, but is that the best example? Delaying things for a false positive is not much of a success. On the otherhand, TSA routinely fails tests to screen for real weapons. I know this is not the TSA here, but I am still not convinced security is not mostly theater. But, yes, I would rather have security be safe than sorry.
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:50 AM   #6
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I think your giving this too much credit.

K-9 sniffers are great but the personal inspections are worthless.
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:54 AM   #7
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I am not trying to be disagreeable, but is that the best example? Delaying things for a false positive is not much of a success. On the otherhand, TSA routinely fails tests to screen for real weapons. I know this is not the TSA here, but I am still not convinced security is not mostly theater. But, yes, I would rather have security be safe than sorry.
Meaning no disrespect, but quite frankly, I would very much rather be delayed then blown up. I really don't care if we as passengers are delayed to be safe! Sometimes cruisers *wine* about every little thing and a delay for safety, at least to me, is *wining*. (please note I am NOT saying you are wining!)

When the technology is perfect then we have the right to complain about the errors.

As pointed out nothing is 100% and yes TSA is not perfect, but since none of us know all that goes on behind the senses , nor do we hear all that is caught and stopped, I would not even suggest its *theater* or use that word, as it is insulting to the folks doing a rather great job under very hard circumstances!

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Old 04-19-2013, 11:59 AM   #8
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I think your giving this too much credit.

K-9 sniffers are great but the personal inspections are worthless.
Not true I am afraid. A few years ago I read a report that personal inspections and scanners caught 256 hand guns in carry on luggage on planes, not to mention HUNDREDS of knives!

Again like *theater*, saying *worthless is plainly wrong and *snarky* and insulting the folks working at that job.

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Old 04-19-2013, 12:01 PM   #9
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And I have read recent reports of security checks failing to catch explosives in clothing.
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:01 PM   #10
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I think your giving this too much credit.

K-9 sniffers are great but the personal inspections are worthless.
No worthless...but not that effective either.
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:02 PM   #11
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And I have read recent reports of security checks failing to catch explosives in clothing.
Sure!.I agree!.....nothing is perfect....techno or manual!
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:06 PM   #12
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No worthless...but not that effective either.
Your right! The most effective security is a combination of various skill, technology and disciplines! Those we all see every day and those going on behind the scenes!

One of the most effective thing security has is you and me and everyone traveling .............reporting when we seen something that doesn't seem right!


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Old 04-19-2013, 12:49 PM   #13
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Point taken on the use of the word theater. I did not mean it to be snarky or insulting to the people running security. I am sure most of them take their job seriously and I am sure we are generally safer than we would be without them.

But, I stand behind the idea that security is often more show than anything else. But that isn't meant in a negative way, because I am not sure it can be much more than that without invading people's privacy in an unreasonable manner.

Take the "checkpoints" used before you enter Disneyland. If I wanted to sneak a weapon in, I would just put it under my clothes instead of in a bag. That is all it would take. But, the presence of security may make guests feel a bit safer and might have some deterrent effect. Again, this isn't because people aren't doing their jobs, but because of balancing individual rights versus safety.

I also agree that I would rather be delayed than blown up. We aren't in disagreement there. I would never complain if I was delayed due to a reasonable security concern. I am not one of the whiners.

I just don't think pointing to a false positive supports the argument that security works. Finding a case where an actual threat was stopped (which does happen) would support the argument. That is more difficult to do because many success stories aren't reported to the public, to further the investigation.

I actually haven't been on a Disney Cruise yet (May 4 - so soon), so I can't comment on security there. I don't want to get too off topic. . . I think we are mostly in agreement.
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:55 PM   #14
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I don't see how it is the fault of the security that they had a false positive. If the dog alerts they have to check it out. Yes, the dogs were wrong. They're not infallible. The alternatives are either not checking at all, or opening every single package to check it.
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:08 PM   #15
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I don't see how it is the fault of the security that they had a false positive. If the dog alerts they have to check it out. Yes, the dogs were wrong. They're not infallible. The alternatives are either not checking at all, or opening every single package to check it.
You are putting up a straw man argument. Nobody here blamed security for the false positive. In fact, I said that I would rather be delayed than sorry.

Instead, I said that the false positive doesn't support the argument that security works. Do you think that a false positive shows that security works? I am always open to opposing opinions, but you arguing against an argument that nobody has made.
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