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Old 04-18-2013, 03:48 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nunzia

why do they never add in the taxes due on the interest or investments in their calculations or not deduct the allowable part of MF?).

You can go nuts with the numbers and if you analyzed every purchase like this you'd be in a very small house driving a 20 year old Toyota (and I had a 20 year old Toyota I loved and wish I kept), you'd never eat out, you'd sit in the dark with your ramen and count your money by daylight.
The first sentence is a very good point and it goes to show that no analysis is truly complete. The second sentence is also a good point and is simply hilarious.
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Old 04-18-2013, 05:19 PM   #137
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The first sentence is a very good point and it goes to show that no analysis is truly complete. The second sentence is also a good point and is simply hilarious.
On the contrary...people who analyze #'s like this are more likely to drive whatever they want and live in a $500,000 house. It's smart to analyze all this when making a large, long term purchase. People who buy based on feelings are the ones who struggle eventually.
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Old 04-18-2013, 05:45 PM   #138
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On the contrary...people who analyze #'s like this are more likely to drive whatever they want and live in a $500,000 house. It's smart to analyze all this when making a large, long term purchase. People who buy based on feelings are the ones who struggle eventually.
Not necessarily so......I have two houses and they are both worth over that half million mark; yet we didn't crunch the numbers on our DVC purchase. We considered it one of our few luxury purchases and definitely let our feelings rule as we decided to buy (since we could have done many different things with that 30 grand including buying any other timeshare).

I will say we are usually very conservative spenders and have made sure we have a retirement in addition to those homes. But we have absolutely no regrets on our DVC purchase. It was right for us and has providing us years of vacations already that we would never had treated ourselves because we usually are so focused. So if DVC was the one purchase we made with little analysis, our feelings led us the correct way.
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Old 04-18-2013, 06:37 PM   #139
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why do they never add in the taxes due on the interest or investments in their calculations or not deduct the allowable part of MF?).
What do you mean deduct the allowable part of MF? Are the property taxes separately billed for dvc? Otherwise, none of it is tax-deductible unless you rent out and reduce your taxable income by the expenses?
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Old 04-18-2013, 06:41 PM   #140
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They is a seperate line item on the DVC bill. I deduct them from my taxes just like my property tax at home.
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Old 04-18-2013, 07:33 PM   #141
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They is a seperate line item on the DVC bill. I deduct them from my taxes just like my property tax at home.
I do too.
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Old 04-18-2013, 07:43 PM   #142
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What do you mean deduct the allowable part of MF? Are the property taxes separately billed for dvc? Otherwise, none of it is tax-deductible unless you rent out and reduce your taxable income by the expenses?
This article suggests that provided the property taxes are either directly billed to you or separately stated on your maintenance fee billing, they are deductible. DVC has a line item for the actual property tax paid on the annual dues bill.
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Old 04-18-2013, 08:17 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theguda

On the contrary...people who analyze #'s like this are more likely to drive whatever they want and live in a $500,000 house. It's smart to analyze all this when making a large, long term purchase. People who buy based on feelings are the ones who struggle eventually.
You are continuing to get yourself into trouble when you make these broad generalizations without any support. Furthermore, you completely misinterpreted my comment. Your analysis, while technically correct, did not account for taxes on investment gains and the tax deductibility of the property tax portion of the maintenance fees as a previous poster had said. That is what I was speaking to when I said that none of the analyses we see on here are complete. Example...there is the possibility that investing the money and renting instead of buying DVC could actually lead to investment income that places you in a higher tax bracket, thus costing you extra money in taxes on your earned income. I have yet to see a DVC purchase analysis that accounted for that, and I don't think I would want to.
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Old 04-18-2013, 08:36 PM   #144
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On the contrary...people who analyze #'s like this are more likely to drive whatever they want and live in a $500,000 house. It's smart to analyze all this when making a large, long term purchase. People who buy based on feelings are the ones who struggle eventually.
I think it's smart to analyze any such purchase but I'd contend that "garbage in, garbage out" applies here. I'd also quibble with the idea that those who do such analysis are likely to be more successful. I'd suggest that it's the quality of the analysis and then the correct actions that make some successful, not the effort alone. I've seen FAR too many here and elsewhere overanalyze and make assumptions that end up being unreasonable. Some such assumptions (IMO) are assuming a 7% long term rise in room costs, that MF will be limited to 3% on average long term and comparing to DVC rack rates as their basis of comparison. I think another big mistake some make is assuming DVC is the best timeshare for them, often it isn't. While there are exceptions, I think most analysis is done trying to justify a purchase rather than looking at it objectively. I think DVC rarely saves people money because people tend to spend any extra money anyway, but it MAY give you more for your money or it may not.

Currently I think the most costly mistakes are buying retail, esp buying more points to use for cash type exchanges than one would need otherwise. I also feel many underestimate the value of their up front costs looked at long term over time.
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:51 PM   #145
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Anyone else see the op ask about buying a contract from a member in another thread? Looks like they changed their mind! Not that i mind at all because ive gone back and forth on the issue myself. But ultimately decided that is is worth it for my family.
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Old 04-18-2013, 11:32 PM   #146
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Anyone else see the op ask about buying a contract from a member in another thread? Looks like they changed their mind! Not that i mind at all because ive gone back and forth on the issue myself. But ultimately decided that is is worth it for my family.
I've said multiple times that buying a small contract would be worthwhile since you'd gain the small benefits of owning at a low cost point. I don't know why my making an offer on a 50 point contract would be a surprise...but I'm glad so many are interested and following my posts.
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Old 04-19-2013, 06:01 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by theguda

I've said multiple times that buying a small contract would be worthwhile since you'd gain the small benefits of owning at a low cost point. I don't know why my making an offer on a 50 point contract would be a surprise...but I'm glad so many are interested and following my posts.
If it makes you feel better, I remember that this was your thinking when I saw that post. What I do find interesting is that you dismiss long term guaranteed benefits of ownership, but you seem to have no problem paying a premium on a small contract to benefit from non guaranteed perks that can be modified or taken away at any time.
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Old 04-19-2013, 08:23 AM   #148
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First time opinion

Good-day community.

Just joined and thought I would weigh in a few thoughts. I am in the process of putting some offers on some resales and jump into this ownership thing called DVC. My spouse and I looked at this for years, but feel now is a financially safe time for us to do it, even though our children are mature teenagers.

I have read many posts on the financial consideration of ownership. I struggle with many of these opinions my self. I like to equate it to the comment about a vehicle. Buying a timeshare is expensive, and does have maintenance. But so many people in the world just spend 30-50k on a vehicle without a second thought and it depreciates like mad. I know many owners of cottages, and yes, there is a real estate investment, but the cost and headache to maintain is quite expensive.

To me ownership is something you need to be able to afford, and plain and simply want (just like you want that BMW SUV). I did not do a single calculation on whether I should own or buy an RRSP, these are two different lines of thought. I put money away into a pension, and for this I am buying some 'fun' to add to my life. The only financial consideration that I am doing the math on, is how much I should start with, and then work towards adding on, so I do not accumulate debt.

I also looked at the rental option, but I guess I am more of a buy person. To me and my spouse, this is exciting to own and plan a trip a few times a year. I don't think it will ever make sense financially, but I do not think it will be total money down the drain like blowing 10k at a casino. There is value in ownership.

I am awaiting an offer going through and then the ROFR process, and then I am going to vacation the heck out of Disney and start to slow down from my job a little.

It is not a financial choice to us, its a 'want' to add a different quality to our lifestyle and a change.

I want to thank all those who contribute on these boards and how much information it has given us... it has been great.

We are staying in a SSR rental in May and hope to own for our anniversary trip in October.

Good luck in your decision. I know it was a long one for us.

Doug J
(for all those great white northers) - how's it going eh?
ps. sounds like a good buy with 2012 points, I would be interested in it?
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Old 04-19-2013, 08:27 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by Fignewtons View Post
Good-day community.

Just joined and thought I would weigh in a few thoughts. I am in the process of putting some offers on some resales and jump into this ownership thing called DVC. My spouse and I looked at this for years, but feel now is a financially safe time for us to do it, even though our children are mature teenagers.

I have read many posts on the financial consideration of ownership. I struggle with many of these opinions my self. I like to equate it to the comment about a vehicle. Buying a timeshare is expensive, and does have maintenance. But so many people in the world just spend 30-50k on a vehicle without a second thought and it depreciates like mad. I know many owners of cottages, and yes, there is a real estate investment, but the cost and headache to maintain is quite expensive.

To me ownership is something you need to be able to afford, and plain and simply want (just like you want that BMW SUV). I did not do a single calculation on whether I should own or buy an RRSP, these are two different lines of thought. I put money away into a pension, and for this I am buying some 'fun' to add to my life. The only financial consideration that I am doing the math on, is how much I should start with, and then work towards adding on, so I do not accumulate debt.

I also looked at the rental option, but I guess I am more of a buy person. To me and my spouse, this is exciting to own and plan a trip a few times a year. I don't think it will ever make sense financially, but I do not think it will be total money down the drain like blowing 10k at a casino. There is value in ownership.

I am awaiting an offer going through and then the ROFR process, and then I am going to vacation the heck out of Disney and start to slow down from my job a little.

It is not a financial choice to us, its a 'want' to add a different quality to our lifestyle and a change.

I want to thank all those who contribute on these boards and how much information it has given us... it has been great.

We are staying in a SSR rental in May and hope to own for our anniversary trip in October.

Good luck in your decision. I know it was a long one for us.

Doug J
(for all those great white northers) - how's it going eh?
Agree with everything you have said. This why we own too. And as a fellow northerner (very close to Canada) - I am glad that the snow is finally gone!
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Old 04-19-2013, 08:28 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by ELMC View Post
If it makes you feel better, I remember that this was your thinking when I saw that post. What I do find interesting is that you dismiss long term guaranteed benefits of ownership, but you seem to have no problem paying a premium on a small contract to benefit from non guaranteed perks that can be modified or taken away at any time.
Agree.

I also find it curious that the original post purported to tackle the buy/don't buy question almost entirely from a financial perspective, and yet OP has failed to respond to any of the criticism of his calculations.
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