Disney Information Station Logo

Go Back   The DIS Discussion Forums - DISboards.com > Just for Fun > Community Board
Find Hotel Specials & DIScounts
 
facebooktwitterpinterestgoogle plusyoutubeDIS Updates
Register Chat FAQ Tickers Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-01-2013, 12:59 AM   #106
dakcp2001
Am I wrong to want a cashier and bagger?
Chicken wings are his crack
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,340

I think it is unreasonable for Disney to put lifeguards 24 hours. It would really drive up costs. So that leaves 2 alternatives

1. pools close when life guards are off duty - what time should life guards go off duty, that is a gray area

2. pools stay open but people need to watch their kids

I think the answer is pretty clear cut. Disney should not be responsible to watch all the children in the pool 24 hours a day. I think parents need to be at the pool with their children. I don't think that is an unreasonable expectation. If your kid "gets away from you" as other people have suggested, then you can't blame Disney when an accident occurs. Swimming is dangerous even with lifeguards and parents watching and an accident can happen in a few seconds. People need to be careful.
dakcp2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 01:08 AM   #107
Gabe1
Northern Illinois
 
Gabe1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Northern Illinois
Posts: 54

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colleen27 View Post
Disney is not going to incur that expense. Lifeguards work in pairs/teams and don't work full 8 hour shifts. At bare minimum you're looking at 9 and preferably 12+ guards to cover 24 hours at a single pool, and a rough tally gives me a total of 56 resort pools on property. They are not going to go to the expense of 500+ new employees to keep all those pools guarded around the clock.

If Disney determines that lifeguards need to be in place any time people are swimming, it will mean the closure of pools at night and probably the elimination of many/most quiet pools as well.
My DS first job was a lifeguard for Disney on WDW property. He worked 40 hours a week minimum and an 8 hour day. They are never a lone lifeguard. From my understanding of the story this was an extended family trip and relatives were in the pool with the boy and when the kid went under it was the cousin that pulled him up and the dad of the boy began the CPR.

My kids were competition swimmers and I'm all for parents keeping an eye on their kids as lifeguards are for emergencies however I cannot wrap my brain around Disney deciding not to have lifeguards posted during busy times at the family pool on the cruise ship. I realize it is posted but I can't agree that it is a grand idea. Lifeguards do so much more than watch for drowning guests, they maintain order, watch for stupid diving guests, guests tossing each other in the pool, standing on each others shoulders, you name it or it is a freak'n free for all in a main pool. Quiet pools, well that is a different debate.
Gabe1 is offline   Reply With Quote
|
The DIS
Register to remove

Join Date: 1997
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,000,000
Old 04-01-2013, 01:09 AM   #108
chloelovesdisney
DIS Veteran
 
chloelovesdisney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 6,335

Maybe there is a compromise of lifeguards on duty a few hours longer till 11pm, then they close the pools. Swim in the quiet pool, swim at your own risk during the same hours.
__________________

chloelovesdisney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 01:17 AM   #109
Mickey'snewestfan
DIS Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,641

There are 3 pools on the Fantasy. Let's take a PP's estimate of 12 full time employees to cover each pool. I like that, it's 2 people per shift, plus a third to give them breaks, plus an extra shift to give people days off. So 36 people.

Now, let's assume they're paying minimum wage plus benefits. That brings us to about $10/hour, and let's double that to cover the room. So 36 people x $800 for a week's cruise. That's $28,800 for a week, or about $7 a passenger.

I would happily pay $14 more for my family of 2 to cruise knowing that there was an extra set of eyes on my kid in the pool, and that someone else would be enforcing rules about jumping and roughhousing, not for my kid, but for all the obnoxious people who seem to think the pool is just for them.
Mickey'snewestfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 01:35 AM   #110
dakcp2001
Am I wrong to want a cashier and bagger?
Chicken wings are his crack
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,340

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe1 View Post
My DS first job was a lifeguard for Disney on WDW property. He worked 40 hours a week minimum and an 8 hour day. They are never a lone lifeguard. From my understanding of the story this was an extended family trip and relatives were in the pool with the boy and when the kid went under it was the cousin that pulled him up and the dad of the boy began the CPR.

My kids were competition swimmers and I'm all for parents keeping an eye on their kids as lifeguards are for emergencies however I cannot wrap my brain around Disney deciding not to have lifeguards posted during busy times at the family pool on the cruise ship. I realize it is posted but I can't agree that it is a grand idea. Lifeguards do so much more than watch for drowning guests, they maintain order, watch for stupid diving guests, guests tossing each other in the pool, standing on each others shoulders, you name it or it is a freak'n free for all in a main pool. Quiet pools, well that is a different debate.
Where did you get the info? I have not seen it anywhere. I imagine the guilt the poor cousins and extended family will feel. Survivor guilt is an odd thing, even when it is not their fault. I am still haunted by the article about the boy who drowned at the Disney resort pool and the quote from his little brother.
dakcp2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 01:45 AM   #111
chloelovesdisney
DIS Veteran
 
chloelovesdisney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 6,335

Quote:
Originally Posted by dakcp2001 View Post
Where did you get the info? I have not seen it anywhere. I imagine the guilt the poor cousins and extended family will feel. Survivor guilt is an odd thing, even when it is not their fault. I am still haunted by the article about the boy who drowned at the Disney resort pool and the quote from his little brother.
The pp's story is from the drowning at POP, not this case. Also, it turned out not to be the father that did CPR, not sure where that information came from.
__________________

chloelovesdisney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 07:17 AM   #112
maxiesmom
The Mean Squinty Eye Works Wonders
 
maxiesmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The West side of the mitten
Posts: 23,106

[QUOTE=jlewisinsyr;47967527

Disney provides life guards during busy times, however, they are a safety net, not an absolute prevention.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. When something horrible like this happens, people try and think of ways to prevent it from happening again. Truth is, you can't prevent every accident from happening, no matter what steps you take to stop them. You could have 30 lifeguards at every pool and still have an accident.

At some point people need to stop thinking accidents can be prevented, and realize when a sign says Swim At Your Own Risk there really is a little risk involved. There is always risk when you are flinging yourself around in a body of water.
maxiesmom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 07:35 AM   #113
goofy4tink
Likes little devils
I know I'm getting old...I get it, I really do
Prisoner of Toy Story Mania
 
goofy4tink's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Central Ma
Posts: 48,496
DISboards Moderator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mkrop View Post
I dont think the pools need to be closed, I just think that lifeguards need to be in place.

I think responsibility can be placed in the parent's hands as well as Disney.

I am totally for personal responsibility and think parents need to watch their children but I also think that Disney needs responsibilty for those guests in the pool
There is signage, at every pool, that states that there is no lifeguard on duty at specific times. We don't need to have lifeguards in the pools at 10pm!! If you choose to swim at that time, then you need to take even more responsibility for your kids. You know there are no lifeguards, you take the chance. It's really simple. If Disney has a sign at every pool, saying that there are no lifeguards on duty, and a parent chooses to go in anyway??? I suppose we could have locks on the pools. But I have to tell you....if I want to take a nice, quick, quiet dip in the pool, before bed at midnight, I don't want to be denied entry into the pool area because parents couldn't make good choices.
goofy4tink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 07:38 AM   #114
sam_gordon
DIS Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 10,099

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxiesmom View Post
Exactly. When something horrible like this happens, people try and think of ways to prevent it from happening again. Truth is, you can't prevent every accident from happening, no matter what steps you take to stop them. You could have 30 lifeguards at every pool and still have an accident.

At some point people need to stop thinking accidents can be prevented, and realize when a sign says Swim At Your Own Risk there really is a little risk involved. There is always risk when you are flinging yourself around in a body of water.
__________________
Freedom W. Caribbean June 15 - June 22, 2014 Video
Oasis W. Caribbean June 8 - June 15, 2014 Review
Barcelo Maya Palace June 29-July 6, 2012
Bay Lake Towers, WDW June 1 - June 6, 2011
Polynesian, WDW Dec. 29, 2008 - Jan. 3, 2009
Wilderness Lodge, WDW, June 2005
Polynesian, WDW Sept. 7 - Sept. 14, 2001
Caribbean Beach, June 1993
sam_gordon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 07:49 AM   #115
Mkrop
I just cant go on demand
Hi my name is Mkop and I am a cart leaver!
 
Mkrop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philly Suburbs!!!!
Posts: 10,698

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlewisinsyr View Post
Disagree...I wouldn't want to see dues at DVC resorts jump to add enough life guards to all the pools to allow for extended pool hours and wouldn't want pools closed for extended hours.

Disney provides life guards during busy times, however, they are a safety net, not an absolute prevention.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colleen27 View Post
Disney is not going to incur that expense. Lifeguards work in pairs/teams and don't work full 8 hour shifts. At bare minimum you're looking at 9 and preferably 12+ guards to cover 24 hours at a single pool, and a rough tally gives me a total of 56 resort pools on property. They are not going to go to the expense of 500+ new employees to keep all those pools guarded around the clock.

If Disney determines that lifeguards need to be in place any time people are swimming, it will mean the closure of pools at night and probably the elimination of many/most quiet pools as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dakcp2001 View Post
I think it is unreasonable for Disney to put lifeguards 24 hours. It would really drive up costs. So that leaves 2 alternatives

1. pools close when life guards are off duty - what time should life guards go off duty, that is a gray area

2. pools stay open but people need to watch their kids

I think the answer is pretty clear cut. Disney should not be responsible to watch all the children in the pool 24 hours a day. I think parents need to be at the pool with their children. I don't think that is an unreasonable expectation. If your kid "gets away from you" as other people have suggested, then you can't blame Disney when an accident occurs. Swimming is dangerous even with lifeguards and parents watching and an accident can happen in a few seconds. People need to be careful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofy4tink View Post
There is signage, at every pool, that states that there is no lifeguard on duty at specific times. We don't need to have lifeguards in the pools at 10pm!! If you choose to swim at that time, then you need to take even more responsibility for your kids. You know there are no lifeguards, you take the chance. It's really simple. If Disney has a sign at every pool, saying that there are no lifeguards on duty, and a parent chooses to go in anyway??? I suppose we could have locks on the pools. But I have to tell you....if I want to take a nice, quick, quiet dip in the pool, before bed at midnight, I don't want to be denied entry into the pool area because parents couldn't make good choices.
Then we will need to agree to disagree. I dont think the pools should be unattended EVER. This is my personal opinion.

And as far as I am aware parents WERE there when the boy at Pop drowned, who knows if having lifeguards could have prevented such a tradgedy. We will never know.
__________________
DH Me DS16 : DS11
2002 Contemporary
April -May 2007 Contemporary
June 2008 Contemporary
Dec 2008 Boardwalk Inn
June 2009 Disneyland Hotel and DCA
Jan 2010 DVC Boardwalk Villas
Dec 2010 DVC BLT
July-Aug 2011 Disneyland Park Vue Inn
Dec 2011 DVC BW
July 2012 DVC BC
Dec 2013 DVC AKL/BW
Aug 2014 DVC DCA
Mkrop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 08:02 AM   #116
crashbb
DIS Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,479

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mkrop View Post
Then we will need to agree to disagree. I dont think the pools should be unattended EVER. This is my personal opinion.
So, you are suggesting life guards 24 hours a day at all pools? Including the quiet pools (which currently have no life guards at all)? Are all the pools even lit for night swimming (if not, having a life guard isn't going to be much help, since they won't be able to properly see - even if someone did decide to swim in the dark).
crashbb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 08:08 AM   #117
Mkrop
I just cant go on demand
Hi my name is Mkop and I am a cart leaver!
 
Mkrop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philly Suburbs!!!!
Posts: 10,698

Quote:
Originally Posted by crashbb View Post
So, you are suggesting life guards 24 hours a day at all pools? Including the quiet pools (which currently have no life guards at all)? Are all the pools even lit for night swimming (if not, having a life guard isn't going to be much help, since they won't be able to properly see - even if someone did decide to swim in the dark).
Yes either lifeguards on duty or the pool is closed. And certainly if they are not lit for night swimming they should be closed.

Once again this is my personal opinion. I dont think WDW is going to change how they are doing things bc of my opinion but I can still have one. I am a big proponent of personal responsibility but to me the risk is way to dangerous and people do not for one minute take those signs seriously enough.
__________________
DH Me DS16 : DS11
2002 Contemporary
April -May 2007 Contemporary
June 2008 Contemporary
Dec 2008 Boardwalk Inn
June 2009 Disneyland Hotel and DCA
Jan 2010 DVC Boardwalk Villas
Dec 2010 DVC BLT
July-Aug 2011 Disneyland Park Vue Inn
Dec 2011 DVC BW
July 2012 DVC BC
Dec 2013 DVC AKL/BW
Aug 2014 DVC DCA
Mkrop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 08:10 AM   #118
sam_gordon
DIS Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 10,099

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mkrop View Post
Yes either lifeguards on duty or the pool is closed. And certainly if they are not lit for night swimming they should be closed.

Once again this is my personal opinion. I dont think WDW is going to change how they are doing things bc of my opinion but I can still have one. I am a big proponent of personal responsibility but to me the risk is way to dangerous and people do not for one minute take those signs seriously enough.
You are entitled to your opinions, but I think we are also allowed to question those opinions. Do you think hotel (non-Disney) pools should provide life guards also? If not, why do they get a pass?
__________________
Freedom W. Caribbean June 15 - June 22, 2014 Video
Oasis W. Caribbean June 8 - June 15, 2014 Review
Barcelo Maya Palace June 29-July 6, 2012
Bay Lake Towers, WDW June 1 - June 6, 2011
Polynesian, WDW Dec. 29, 2008 - Jan. 3, 2009
Wilderness Lodge, WDW, June 2005
Polynesian, WDW Sept. 7 - Sept. 14, 2001
Caribbean Beach, June 1993
sam_gordon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 08:13 AM   #119
maxiesmom
The Mean Squinty Eye Works Wonders
 
maxiesmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The West side of the mitten
Posts: 23,106

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mkrop View Post

Once again this is my personal opinion. I dont think WDW is going to change how they are doing things bc of my opinion but I can still have one. I am a big proponent of personal responsibility but to me the risk is way to dangerous and people do not for one minute take those signs seriously enough.
How could Disney close them, and be 100% sure no one would swim? Because it seems that is what you would like to have happen. Even with a closed sign, or with fences built all around the pools, someone would sneak in.

Personal responsibility is a great thing. If someone doesn't take the signs seriously now, what makes you think they would take a Pool Closed, No Swimming sign seriously? You can't prevent people from making bad choices, and assuming risk if they choose to.
maxiesmom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2013, 08:16 AM   #120
crashbb
DIS Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,479

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mkrop View Post
Yes either lifeguards on duty or the pool is closed. And certainly if they are not lit for night swimming they should be closed.

Once again this is my personal opinion. I dont think WDW is going to change how they are doing things bc of my opinion but I can still have one. I am a big proponent of personal responsibility but to me the risk is way to dangerous and people do not for one minute take those signs seriously enough.
I'm not trying to change your opinion - just trying to work out what, exactly, your opinion is. You said "I dont think the pools should be unattended EVER", I wasn't sure if you really meant was literally written (24-hour life guards) or if you meant that they should be closed when there are no life guards.
crashbb is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

facebooktwitterpinterestgoogle plusyoutubeDIS Updates
GET OUR DIS UPDATES DELIVERED BY EMAIL



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:32 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Copyright © 1997-2014, Werner Technologies, LLC. All Rights Reserved.

You Rated this Thread: