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Old 03-31-2013, 05:27 PM   #91
sam_gordon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OceanAnnie View Post
The article mentioned the parents and siblings in the article and mentioned them leaving when the boy was removed from the area. No mention of any other family.
Right. But "no mention" doesn't mean there weren't other family members. IIRC, the article was quoting "witnesses on a message board". So they didn't talk to the witnesses themselves.
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Old 03-31-2013, 05:54 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by sam_gordon View Post
"There needs to be more responsibility of the parents"
If you are going to quote me, do not take my statement out of context. My reference was around Disney not needing to do anything different and that more responsibility needs to be placed on the parents. Vastly different then what you implied by selectively quoting. In short I was focusing on the statement that Disney should do more, more lifeguards, be more responsible, etc. Disney does not need to do anything else, parents do.
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Old 03-31-2013, 06:07 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by sam_gordon View Post
Right. But "no mention" doesn't mean there weren't other family members. IIRC, the article was quoting "witnesses on a message board". So they didn't talk to the witnesses themselves.
Interesting.

The thrust of your argument has been that accidents just happen. So I understand why you are hinging on one small item of my post and that other family members were possibly there.
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Old 03-31-2013, 06:35 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by OceanAnnie View Post
Interesting.

The thrust of your argument has been that accidents just happen. So I understand why you are hinging on one small item of my post and that other family members were possibly there.
No, the thrust of my argument has been too much blame has been placed on the parents when people don't know the situation.
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Old 03-31-2013, 07:01 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by sam_gordon View Post
No, the thrust of my argument has been too much blame has been placed on the parents when people don't know the situation.
And in contrast, too much blame has been on Disney for not having more life guards, more responsibility, etc.
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Old 03-31-2013, 07:17 PM   #96
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No, the thrust of my argument has been too much blame has been placed on the parents when people don't know the situation.
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Old 03-31-2013, 07:24 PM   #97
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And in contrast, too much blame has been on Disney for not having more life guards, more responsibility, etc.
I will agree with that.
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Old 03-31-2013, 07:28 PM   #98
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And in contrast, too much blame has been on Disney for not having more life guards, more responsibility, etc.
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Old 03-31-2013, 07:40 PM   #99
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I like that the pools are pretty much open 24 hours per day, and would never expect Disney to have lifeguards on duty and for them to close their pools early. People need to take personal responsibility.

Note: This is not being non-empathetic, just reality that we all are responsible for our own actions and we should not hold anyone else responsible for them.


I think this is an important reality check: when someone says "Disney needs to have a lifeguard available any time a pool is open", they are really saying "Disney needs to end night swimming and fill in the quiet pools" because that is the only possible way for them to have lifeguards on duty any time a pool is open. And I would hate to see it come to that because of a freak accident or a tragic case of parents not watching their child.

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What is the cut-off age for a unattended child at a pool? There isn't one, imo. I always say I do not parent my kids based on age. There isn't a magic age where the child is suddenly ready to stay home alone, swim unsupervised, babysit, use a kitchen knife, etc. Every kid is different and parenting should be based on each individual child instead of some magic number. There is common sense though. While we can debate if 9 is old enough to swim alone, I can't imagine anyone debating if 4 is old enough to swim alone.
I agree about 4 being pretty clear-cut, but here in DIS-land some of these conversations get really ridiculous in the "it could never happen to me because I'm a better parent" rationalizations. You only have to look back to the conversation about the 13yo who drowned at Pop to see that. That boy drowned while playing with relatives in a shallow pool while his parents were on the deck and still the judgmental "Parents need to watch their kids" crap and assumptions that rules were broken dominated the conversation.
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Old 03-31-2013, 07:53 PM   #100
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I am praying for the boys quick and full recovery. I was thrilled to hear he was in stable condition.
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Old 03-31-2013, 08:12 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlewisinsyr View Post
I like that the pools are pretty much open 24 hours per day, and would never expect Disney to have lifeguards on duty and for them to close their pools early. People need to take personal responsibility.

Note: This is not being non-empathetic, just reality that we all are responsible for our own actions and we should not hold anyone else responsible for them.
I dont think the pools need to be closed, I just think that lifeguards need to be in place.

I think responsibility can be placed in the parent's hands as well as Disney.

I am totally for personal responsibility and think parents need to watch their children but I also think that Disney needs responsibilty for those guests in the pool
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Old 03-31-2013, 08:24 PM   #102
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I don't think it's too much to ask to have a life guard on duty during the daytime hours on a cruise ship where children are all over the place. I also think anyone under 12 should not be able to swim without an adult present. Maybe kids under five who can't swim should be offered life vests. I think they do that at the Disney hotels.

This won't prevent all drownings, but I think it will help.

Since this child was only four, it seems most likely that he probably just got away from his parents and they were looking for him when they were told about his near-drowning. I can't see any parents allowing a 4 year old to swim without constant supervision. Kids can dart off quickly. Maybe if the young kids who can't swim put on life vests as soon as their family enters the pool area, it would help.

Accidents happen and luckily this little boy seems like he will be ok. It must have been a horrible experience for everyone involved.
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Old 03-31-2013, 09:12 PM   #103
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I've never been on a Disney cruise but not offering life vest for small children is crazy. I have never been to a waterpark that didn't offer life vest for kids, all of them much smaller than Disney. It sounds to me Disney could do a lot more than the zero they do now.

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Old 03-31-2013, 09:16 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mkrop View Post
I dont think the pools need to be closed, I just think that lifeguards need to be in place.

I think responsibility can be placed in the parent's hands as well as Disney.

I am totally for personal responsibility and think parents need to watch their children but I also think that Disney needs responsibilty for those guests in the pool
Disagree...I wouldn't want to see dues at DVC resorts jump to add enough life guards to all the pools to allow for extended pool hours and wouldn't want pools closed for extended hours.

Disney provides life guards during busy times, however, they are a safety net, not an absolute prevention.
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Old 03-31-2013, 10:52 PM   #105
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I dont think the pools need to be closed, I just think that lifeguards need to be in place.
Disney is not going to incur that expense. Lifeguards work in pairs/teams and don't work full 8 hour shifts. At bare minimum you're looking at 9 and preferably 12+ guards to cover 24 hours at a single pool, and a rough tally gives me a total of 56 resort pools on property. They are not going to go to the expense of 500+ new employees to keep all those pools guarded around the clock.

If Disney determines that lifeguards need to be in place any time people are swimming, it will mean the closure of pools at night and probably the elimination of many/most quiet pools as well.
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