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Old 04-04-2013, 02:17 PM   #151
NotUrsula
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I wonder if there is a higher incidence of parents leaving children unattended at pools on board DCL vessels because of the emphasis that is placed on the availability of the supervised children's programs? I can easily see some parents thinking that because there is so much emphasis on DCL about being able to safely get time away from your kids that they think that it applies everywhere? (Full disclosure: I've never been on the ships, but I've read up on them. However, I don't know if there is a component that covers this in the safety drill.)

As to children and swimming: unless my young one is in a formal class, she does not get in the water unless one of her parents or her older brother is in the water with her, within one stroke's reach at all times. (Her brother is 10 yrs older, and a certified lifeguard). My father grew up in a fishing village and swam like a dolphin. The first time that he saved someone's life he was 10 years old, and over the years he saved over a dozen people from drowning. However, sometimes his best efforts failed, and people died. As a result of those experiences he was absolutely manic about water safety and boating safety rules, and I grew up following them religiously. I've insisted on the same level of training for my own children.
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Old 04-04-2013, 02:37 PM   #152
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Have there been any updates on the boy?
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Old 04-04-2013, 03:04 PM   #153
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I'm curious... all of those who say "keep an eye on your children", does that apply to 18 year olds?
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According to reports, Gaines, a senior outfield on the Dunbar team, is in a Pensacola hospital after apparently diving into shallow water near Destin Tuesday. Gaines and his teammates are in Florida for the annual Florida Beach Bash Tournament.
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Old 04-04-2013, 03:07 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by sam_gordon View Post
I'm curious... all of those who say "keep an eye on your children", does that apply to 18 year olds?

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Of course you can't prevent every accident from happening. But are you saying parents keeping a close eye on their kids wouldn't help?

No matter what we do, you can't prevent accidents from happening. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.
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Old 04-04-2013, 03:20 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by sam_gordon View Post
I'm curious... all of those who say "keep an eye on your children", does that apply to 18 year olds?

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There is no comparison between a 4 year old child and an 18 year old young adult.
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Old 04-04-2013, 03:24 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by maxiesmom View Post
Of course you can't prevent every accident from happening. But are you saying parents keeping a close eye on their kids wouldn't help?

No matter what we do, you can't prevent accidents from happening. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.
No, I'm not saying that. I'm not sure what I'm saying now. Just what you did... you can't always prevent accidents. That's why they're "accidents".
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Old 04-04-2013, 04:57 PM   #157
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No, I'm not saying that. I'm not sure what I'm saying now. Just what you did... you can't always prevent accidents. That's why they're "accidents".
Cmon there are certain ages when we do allow people some freedom and if heaven forbid something happens than yes it is truly an accident and accidents happen even when there are people nearby, once again a true accident.

But if there is a child who need supervision and MOST people would agree that a 4 year old needs supervision ESPECIALLY around water, than that is something that MAY have been prevented.

It is no different than any other accident, most people let their kids ride a bike without supervision when they are 13, but most do not when the kid is 4 Accidents can happen with bike riding but as the child gets older the more freedom we give.
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Old 04-04-2013, 05:09 PM   #158
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Cmon there are certain ages when we do allow people some freedom and if heaven forbid something happens than yes it is truly an accident and accidents happen even when there are people nearby, once again a true accident.

But if there is a child who need supervision and MOST people would agree that a 4 year old needs supervision ESPECIALLY around water, than that is something that MAY have been prevented.
Frankly, I think our cultural discomfort with accidents and things outside our control lead us to look for a systemic answer to every freak occurrence. The conversation about the 13yo who drowned at Pop was ridiculously similar to the conversation on this thread - berating a lack of parenting and calling for round the clock lifeguards - so it clearly isn't just an issue of the child's age. It is the generally risk-adverse mindset of our society. No matter how old the child, the conversation automatically seems to turn to finding fault and placing blame rather than accepting/understanding that sometimes accidents just happen.

The same common sense that tells us a 4yo needs to be supervised around water should also remind us that preschoolers are unpredictable and have a way of getting away from their parents at times. Since the parents were in the pool area and reportedly in their swimsuits when they left the ship, they probably weren't letting the kid swim without them - more likely, Dad thought the child was with Mom and Mom thought he was with Dad, or he simply slipped away in the chaos of the sail-away party and they didn't find him quickly enough.
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Old 04-04-2013, 07:10 PM   #159
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Have there been any updates on the boy?
I haven't heard anything (on local news/Orlando) since this info from the Orlando Sentinel:

Three days after a 4-year-old boy nearly drowned on a Disney cruise ship, he remains hospitalized, but officials are not releasing his condition.

The child was reportedly pulled, unresponsive, from a swimming pool on the ship, taken by ambulance to Cape Canaveral Hospital then flown by helicopter to Arnold Palmer Hospital for Children

A hospital spokesman Tuesday would not release the child's condition, but Disney Cruise Line spokeswoman Rena Langley confirmed that he was alive and that his parents were still in the Central Florida area.

The incident happened while the Disney Fantasy was docked in Port Canaveral, preparing for a seven-day cruise of the Western Caribbean.

The Port Canaveral Police Department responded and was investigating. On Tuesday, it would not release an incident report.

The child was swimming in the "Donald pool," one of three pools on the cruise liner, when he was discovered unresponsive, Langley said.

Disney medical personnel went to his aid then local fire-rescue personnel were summoned and took over.

The pool is 5-foot-3-inches deep. Witnesses reported that the child's parents were not in the water with him and came running over while emergency personnel were working on their child. They nearly collapsed at what they discovered, one witness reported.

A sign at the pool indicates it is not watched by a lifeguard and prohibits children under the age of 12 from swimming without parental supervision.

Langley would not release the name of the child or parents and would not provide his medical condition.

"We're continuing to assist the family in any way we can," she said.


http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...e-cruise-liner

Oh, and I did read elsewhere that the family was from Missouri, and I thought that was eerie because the boy that drowned at the POP pool was also from Missouri.

Of course, not saying anything against Missouri, but what are the odds with all the worldwide visitors that both families would be MO. residents
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Old 04-05-2013, 02:59 AM   #160
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Someone posted on the cruise thread that the family has a public facebook page for their son. Chase Lykken. With updates. He's fighting mighty hard for his life.

They thank the first responder and his actions when he was first pulled out of the pool.
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:22 AM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colleen27 View Post
Frankly, I think our cultural discomfort with accidents and things outside our control lead us to look for a systemic answer to every freak occurrence. The conversation about the 13yo who drowned at Pop was ridiculously similar to the conversation on this thread - berating a lack of parenting and calling for round the clock lifeguards - so it clearly isn't just an issue of the child's age. It is the generally risk-adverse mindset of our society. No matter how old the child, the conversation automatically seems to turn to finding fault and placing blame rather than accepting/understanding that sometimes accidents just happen.

The same common sense that tells us a 4yo needs to be supervised around water should also remind us that preschoolers are unpredictable and have a way of getting away from their parents at times. Since the parents were in the pool area and reportedly in their swimsuits when they left the ship, they probably weren't letting the kid swim without them - more likely, Dad thought the child was with Mom and Mom thought he was with Dad, or he simply slipped away in the chaos of the sail-away party and they didn't find him quickly enough.
I dont disagree that even with a 4 year old you can have a true accident, but you can also have parents who were not properly supervising their child for the age they are and for the risk involved.

This may truly have been as you described, each parent thought the other had him or there was chaos and he slipped away and this accident occurred but there are parents out there who are not as vilgiliant as they shoud be with their children at certain ages around certain risks.

The investigation and interviews will tell the story, whether we ever hear it is another thing.
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:01 AM   #162
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There are always going to be accidents. We, as parents, have to decide how much freedom to give our kids. By making good judgments, we can try to cut down on the possibility of accidents happening. And those judgments will change depending on a child's age.
When my now 19 y/o dd was 3, she wasn't allowed to play unsupervised in the yard. She didn't get to go into a body of water without someone right there with her. When she got to be 5, she was allowed to play in the backyard, with me in the back of the house. It's a safe area, so not too concerned. But she still had to have someone in the water with her. Fast forward to the age of 10. When we would go to pools, she was allowed to swim along...and by that I mean, no one in the water with her. But, she was being monitored from poolside, or on the beach. She was a strong swimmer, even back then. And yes, accidents happen, but you have to loosen the parental ropes somewhere along the line.
She got to be 13....went to WDW. She was allowed to wander the parks alone, with her girlfriend. They were allowed to return to BWV alone and hang in the room. But that was for a few hours only.

You have to look at the possibilities of 'stuff' happening and then decide how much leeway to give the child. You can't be a helicopter parent for the first 15 years of life and then suddenly just say 'go for it kid!' and turn them loose and expect good decisions to be made. You have to give them bits of freedom along the way, and allow them to make mistakes in order to figure out how to make good choices.

We have so many parents now that are scared to death of something happening to their kids that they hover, constantly. They don't allow their kids to mess up, they don't allow them to 'lose'. Everything has to be perfect in their child's life. And that's just not real life. So, while I'm certainly not advocating leaving a 4 y/o alone at a swimming pool, it's not a stretch that leaving a 10 y/o alone could happen. You have to give your child the tools they need in life.....you can't just assume that it will just 'come to them' and they'll make great choices. So, that comment about risk adverse comment is spot on.
We need to realize that bad crap happens to good people. That little boy that was riding his bike over in FtW and got hit by the bus??? It was an accident. The little boy that drowned at Pop? Again, a horrific accident.

Believe me, I'm not the mom that lets her kids go willy nilly about, assuming that life will be perfect and nothing bad will happen to them. I'm the idiot mother that has stressed constantly about the fact that the Mt Hope Bridge is right by my dd's dorm. And I'm positive that she's going to end up falling off that bridge and dying!! Now, understand....there is no reason for my dd to be walking across that bridge, and she has a huge fear of heights. But, still I worry. And I worry about the stupidist things. But I try to keep those worries to myself so I don't stifle my kids. They have to be allowed to go out and find their way. IF they make mistakes along the way (and they will!) I can only hope they are fixable mistakes and that we have given them the tools they need to make just small mistakes.

This whole blaming the parents every time something bad happens to a child? It's got to stop. Sure, there are going to be times that the parent could have done a better job. But most of the time? It's just a horrific accident that just 'happened'.
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Old 04-05-2013, 10:32 AM   #163
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Here is the link to the fundraiser page for little Chase:

http://www.youcaring.com/medical-fun...er-fund-/51107
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Old 04-05-2013, 12:28 PM   #164
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Here come the tears again. Putting a face on this sweet child...

Prayers and positive thoughts continue.
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Old 04-05-2013, 03:43 PM   #165
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According to the Facebook page the little boy is doing better and better - and is now breathing on his own! So amazing!
I keep praying for his recovery! Can't imagine what the family are going through right now.
It is just a horrible and tragic accident....
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