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Old 03-10-2013, 04:59 PM   #61
Beccabunny
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Originally Posted by Mama Who View Post
Because the rules of the provider allow the child with autism to be accommodated easily and do not allow the peanut-allergy sufferer to control what other people eat. We accommodate the person who complies with the rules, minds their own business and doesn't infringe on anyone else's rights.

When two needs conflict, someone loses out. There is no way to set up the world to accommodate everybody. That autistic kid can't demand that nobody shout in line for example, or that the one effect on Fantasmic that freaks him out be shut off for the showing he attends. Other kids have the right to make noise and live their lives and if the disabled kid can't cope, the disabled kid loses.

If flying on a plane with other people minding their own business and obeying the rules could KILL my kid... I cannot imagine what would be worth me taking that risk. I have a potentially fatal cigarette smoke allergy myself and if a place allows smoking I don't go there. My "right" to insist that nobody smoke where smoking is allowed is allowed is not something I am comfortable risking my life on, nor do I feel that it's responsible to place that in someone else's hands. The idea that I would get on a flight that allowed smoking is simply utterly outside my scope of reasonable. "Everyone should just not smoke for 6 hours" is not a good plan to keep me alive.
A previous poster brought up an example of a flight where peanuts were not served and passengers were asked not to open peanut products. The airline has the right to do that, even though most airlines will not. If a passenger MUST have a certain food that is not allowed, then that passenger should not be flying on the particular flight. Airlines have been known to reschedule passengers due to situations where two disabilities could not be accommodated on the same flight, and a severe food allergy is a recognised disability.
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Old 03-10-2013, 05:14 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Beccabunny View Post
A previous poster brought up an example of a flight where peanuts were not served and passengers were asked not to open peanut products. The airline has the right to do that, even though most airlines will not. If a passenger MUST have a certain food that is not allowed, then that passenger should not be flying on the particular flight. Airlines have been known to reschedule passengers due to situations where two disabilities could not be accommodated on the same flight, and a severe food allergy is a recognised disability.
They were ASKED but the airlines will also tell you that they can't enforce it. Asking is all they can do. They can't keep people from eating the food that they brought for the flight.
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Old 03-10-2013, 05:43 PM   #63
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Wow, this thread is really opening my eyes on a few things. I'm not allergic to peanuts but I do have severe airborne allergies to mustard and tapioca, found in nearly all frozen french fries. I haven't flown since these allergies became airborne sensitive but I will be flying to Disneyland this October. It never occured to me to ask the airlines to request people not bring onboard/serve/eat food that I'm allergic to. I'll be in danger just being in the airport. My plan is to carry my allergy meds and wear a filtering mask or two. I do this regularly anyways since it's impossible to avoid french fries in today's society. It's my responsiblity to protect myself, not anyone elses.
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Old 03-10-2013, 05:51 PM   #64
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They were ASKED but the airlines will also tell you that they can't enforce it. Asking is all they can do. They can't keep people from eating the food that they brought for the flight.
So, if they say "Please do not open any peanut products" you're just going to consider that a request and ignore it? Kind of like when they say, "Please fasten your seatbelts." They're just asking, right?
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Old 03-10-2013, 06:00 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Beccabunny View Post
So, if they say "Please do not open any peanut products" you're just going to consider that a request and ignore it? Kind of like when they say, "Please fasten your seatbelts." They're just asking, right?
It is nothing like the same thing. One (the seat belts) is mandated and covered by the FAA, the other (peanut products) is not. One can be enforced and the other cannot.

I am NOT saying that I think requests to avoid peanut products *should* be ignored, but they *can* be ignored without the flyer receiving any sanctions from the airline/FAA/police. It is important that those with allergies know this, so that they realize exactly what can (and cannot) happen on their flight.

And to your previous post (about moving one of the flyers) - that only works if they give advance notice. The only time I heard an announcement about "no peanuts" it wasn't announced until we were in the air - a little too late to move either passenger!
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Old 03-10-2013, 06:01 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Beccabunny View Post
So, if they say "Please do not open any peanut products" you're just going to consider that a request and ignore it? Kind of like when they say, "Please fasten your seatbelts." They're just asking, right?
The airlines themselves say that it is just a request. They can choose not to serve peanuts but they can't stop anyone from bringing their own peanut products. Your " fasten seatbelt" comparison is ridiculous. They aren't the same.
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Old 03-10-2013, 06:17 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Beccabunny View Post
A previous poster brought up an example of a flight where peanuts were not served and passengers were asked not to open peanut products. The airline has the right to do that, even though most airlines will not. If a passenger MUST have a certain food that is not allowed, then that passenger should not be flying on the particular flight. Airlines have been known to reschedule passengers due to situations where two disabilities could not be accommodated on the same flight, and a severe food allergy is a recognised disability.
And so is Diabetes. And if someone has diabetes and needs to consume this because of said diabetes...well there you go! And here's the problem... The ADA laws don't allow you to require proof of disability! So now you have a huge loophole... You have two parties who both have a disability. So who's disability trumps whose?

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They were ASKED but the airlines will also tell you that they can't enforce it. Asking is all they can do. They can't keep people from eating the food that they brought for the flight.
Exactly! That is the point I have been trying to make. If you read Southwest's own website they will not guarantee a 100% peanut free enivornment. They make suggestions to put their traveler's in the least amount of harm's way and will do their best to work with them BUT, they will not make an absolute guarantee of NO exposure. Therefore, the traveler 'assumes' a certain amount of risk when they choose to travel with them and said traveler needs to be proactive on their own behalf (maybe bringing medications, epipens, etc....)

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For the sake of the discussion I was pointing out I think there is a difference. And because there were posters who seem to not have a medical issue, but still would place their want of peanut butter, and their right to have it, over the health of a fellow flyer.
Not necessarily PB or peanuts, but a protein product that I purchased that I will need to consume because my health warrants it and I planned accordingly for my health and my own needs and I am within my rights too. I was proactive in planning for my own needs and I'm sorry if you or others find that offensive, but according to Southwest's policy as long as TSA says I can bring it thru security or I have purchased it after security and I need it to meet my needs, how does that make me any less deserving that the 'peanut free' person??

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But how do you tell the difference? There's nothing that requires someone to declare a medical need, so you really don't know if they need it or not.
Not sure about 'medical need' but I would think if it is a medical need it is severe enough that said person probably qualifies as having a 'disability under the law. And as stated above, the ADA protects people from having to prove their disability for 'equal' treatment. Now if you want 'better' treatment such as HC parking, then they can require proof of a disability.
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Old 03-10-2013, 10:21 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by stitchlovestink View Post
And so is Diabetes. And if someone has diabetes and needs to consume this because of said diabetes...well there you go! And here's the problem... The ADA laws don't allow you to require proof of disability! So now you have a huge loophole... You have two parties who both have a disability. So who's disability trumps whose?
Whenever you have a situation like this, it is a case by case basis.

Also, you should know, the ADA does not cover airlines. That is covered by a different but similar piece of legislation, the ACAA.
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:55 AM   #69
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It is nothing like the same thing. One (the seat belts) is mandated and covered by the FAA, the other (peanut products) is not. One can be enforced and the other cannot.

I am NOT saying that I think requests to avoid peanut products *should* be ignored, but they *can* be ignored without the flyer receiving any sanctions from the airline/FAA/police. It is important that those with allergies know this, so that they realize exactly what can (and cannot) happen on their flight.

And to your previous post (about moving one of the flyers) - that only works if they give advance notice. The only time I heard an announcement about "no peanuts" it wasn't announced until we were in the air - a little too late to move either passenger!
My experience has been different. The only time I heard an announcement, it was made before take-off. I understand what you're saying, but my concern is not with sanctions. I'm just appalled that there are so many people who will disregard the "request" just because they can. The attitude seems to be that it doesn't matter if someone dies, they don't have to honor the request because the airlines won't enforce it. I'm well aware that the airlines can't guarantee a peanut-free environment, but for a person with a true life-threatening allergy, not having peanut products opened near them goes a long way in avoiding anaphylaxis. We're fortunate because my daughter's peanut allergy is not as severe as it once was, and we've never had problems flying, we just clean up the seats as best we can when we board. I would hate to have to rely on the good will of others, because apparently it's in short supply.
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:24 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Beccabunny View Post
My experience has been different. The only time I heard an announcement, it was made before take-off. I understand what you're saying, but my concern is not with sanctions. I'm just appalled that there are so many people who will disregard the "request" just because they can. The attitude seems to be that it doesn't matter if someone dies, they don't have to honor the request because the airlines won't enforce it. I'm well aware that the airlines can't guarantee a peanut-free environment, but for a person with a true life-threatening allergy, not having peanut products opened near them goes a long way in avoiding anaphylaxis. We're fortunate because my daughter's peanut allergy is not as severe as it once was, and we've never had problems flying, we just clean up the seats as best we can when we board. I would hate to have to rely on the good will of others, because apparently it's in short supply.
These threads make me hope the general population is more flexible than the DIS!!

I have no skin in the game either way. Our younger dd has autism, but actually has a lot of proteins she'll eat: hummus, black beans, refried beans, chick peas, peanut butter, etc. I often throw these in a tupperware if we're going on a car trip because they can stay unrefrigerated for a while. I can't give her almond butter, because she's allergic to tree nuts, but I need to research if sunflower seed butter is an option.

I can't imagine having a life threatening allergy like peanuts, and my heart goes out to anyone who has to deal with it.

We could easily adapt if we ever had to fly again.
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Old 03-16-2013, 02:35 PM   #71
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I have 2 children with peanut allergies and have flown with them on Southwest several times. They did not serve peanuts, but I don't remember an announcement about not eating peanuts if you brought them on yourself. On our last flight we had 2 rows of 3 seats and my dad was opposite on the aisle to create a "safe zone" (the rows are staggered a bit so he was between our 2 rows of seats). A family asked him to move so they could sit together and he did. Shortly after, the guy who took his seat opened a big can of peanuts 2 feet away from my more allergic son. In that situation, I asked the flight attendant to ask him not to eat the peanuts. Otherwise I would have probably tried to rearrange my family to move the allergic kids further away and hope for the best.

To the OP who was asking about peanut butter alternatives--if you really wanted one, Barney Butter is an amazing almond butter that is made in an almond only facility. It's the only one I've found that is peanut free and I believe (not absolutely certain) would be ok for cashew allergy as well since it is not processed with other tree nuts.
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:25 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by jkroach View Post
I have 2 children with peanut allergies and have flown with them on Southwest several times. They did not serve peanuts, but I don't remember an announcement about not eating peanuts if you brought them on yourself. On our last flight we had 2 rows of 3 seats and my dad was opposite on the aisle to create a "safe zone" (the rows are staggered a bit so he was between our 2 rows of seats). A family asked him to move so they could sit together and he did. Shortly after, the guy who took his seat opened a big can of peanuts 2 feet away from my more allergic son. In that situation, I asked the flight attendant to ask him not to eat the peanuts. Otherwise I would have probably tried to rearrange my family to move the allergic kids further away and hope for the best.

To the OP who was asking about peanut butter alternatives--if you really wanted one, Barney Butter is an amazing almond butter that is made in an almond only facility. It's the only one I've found that is peanut free and I believe (not absolutely certain) would be ok for cashew allergy as well since it is not processed with other tree nuts.
Will have to see if it is available in my area. Thanks for the suggestion. I love almonds anyway so almond butter is a great alternative for me.
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Old 03-18-2013, 02:56 PM   #73
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What amazes me is that someone would expect people to BUY different food! I guess I just don't expect the world to revolve around ME! I don't expect other people to stop their lives to meet MY needs when it comes to costing them money. That part just astounds me...
Well, I don't think people EXPECT you to buy different food. But I for one, would never knowingly place another person at risk of death. So I would either buy something else or not eat. Simple as that.
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Old 03-18-2013, 06:51 PM   #74
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I buy my Barney Butter at Whole Foods, but it is also available online.
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:36 PM   #75
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Will have to see if it is available in my area. Thanks for the suggestion. I love almonds anyway so almond butter is a great alternative for me.
Almond butter sounds really nice! It would go fantastically with chocolate spread.
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