DVC RESALES
DVC RESALES

Go Back   The DIS Discussion Forums - DISboards.com > Disney Vacation Club > DVC-Mousecellaneous
facebooktwitterpinterestgoogle plusyoutubeDIS UpdatesDIS email updates
Register Chat FAQ Tickers Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read





Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 03-01-2013, 10:06 AM   #16
Deb & Bill
DVC-Trivia Contest, Apr-2006: Honorable Mention
 
Deb & Bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 44,868

April has better weather. October is still hurricane season.
__________________
Deb - DVC Member since '97
OKW and VWL Homes

Stop the madness. No more DVC construction.
Bring back Vacation Magic. Dump Disney Files!
Stopped drinking the Kool-aid long ago.
Deb & Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 10:27 AM   #17
mjc2003
DIS Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: North Jersey
Posts: 1,227

Quote:
Originally Posted by drusba View Post
The seasonal point differences at WDW actually resemble what were considered the high to lower demand times of Disney in general when DVC first started. Mid-Feb through April was the spring break time. October then, which was long before Food & Wine was created and before Mickey's Not So Scary Halloween Party became an event that happened regularly throughout the month, was a low demand time. Disney (WDW) itself has had a shift -- e.g., October is much more busier and its season was changed to regular season from value for determining nightly rates.

From the beginning, DVC differed from Disney because you had more making decisions on when to go based on points required than season but today it is substantially different; in general end of Sep through Marathon weekend in Jan is DVC's high season and the rest of the year regular to lower season including holidays from mid-Jan through most of Sep. The factors that have contributed to that shift include Food & Wine, the lower points required, and also includes a shift in the age of the owner population in that many who bought in the 90s when they were tied to kid's school schedules no longer have to follow those schedules.
So would you say that DVC had been slow to adjust to the change in members' travel patterns? Is it safe to say a re-allocation should be forthcoming....or do they not care?
__________________
mjc2003 is offline   Reply With Quote
|
The DIS
Register to remove

Join Date: 1997
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,000,000
Old 03-01-2013, 10:40 AM   #18
Chuck S
DVC Boards Co-Moderator
 
Chuck S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Seguin, Texas USA
Posts: 25,913
DISboards Moderator

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjc2003 View Post
So would you say that DVC had been slow to adjust to the change in members' travel patterns? Is it safe to say a re-allocation should be forthcoming....or do they not care?
I don't think they were slow, they did some fairly major reallocations a few years ago that were met with many more complaints than accolades, because people that were used to travel in a particular season could no longer do so without purchasing more points and now the charts resemble more of the originals.

It's basically is that you can't please everyone and people are used to the charts in the basic structure they were presented with...and they bought points accordingly.

Now it is true that many owners travel patters change over the years, but it is easier to plan for those changes with fairly stable charts, than having points change dramatically year to year. If points were in continual change, DVC sales would suffer dramatically.
__________________

DVC Member at OKW since 1992
Chuck S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 10:43 AM   #19
Chuck S
DVC Boards Co-Moderator
 
Chuck S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Seguin, Texas USA
Posts: 25,913
DISboards Moderator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deb & Bill View Post
April has better weather. October is still hurricane season.
Families are less likely to do any major traveling in October versus April. In October people with kids are trying to save up for Christmas presents and saving to pay for travel to see relatives for Thanksgiving and Christmas. While October is popular at Disney because of food and wine, it is a more single adult crowd or couples without children. They tend overall to spend fewer nights, and likely also spend less on souvenirs and stuff...but more on food.
__________________

DVC Member at OKW since 1992
Chuck S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 10:56 AM   #20
Disbroads
Earning My Ears
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 67

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjc2003 View Post

So if a hotel had plenty of rooms available one week and they were asking $500 a night, but a different week they were asking only $300 a night but were booked months in advance, would we call this a sound pricing strategy or a poorly conceived allocation?
I think you're comparing apples to oranges. The variable pricing, along with length of stay restrictions in the cash world is yield management. It's a practice to maximize profit on their rooms inventory.

DVC doesn't have the same flexibility. We own the resorts. They're not selling when we book. They're taking orders. They only make money at the sales centers.

So they can't make major changes to the seasonal rates. People have been buying DvC for 20 years. They have bought an annual allotment that gets them their week(s) during the time they want to travel. Even the minor tweaks they do make bring on complaints out here.

DvC can't control sold out resorts, but pricing a ten year member out of being able to travel the way they bought to do is in their control, and a bit of a violation of an agreement they made.

As previously noted, October demand has been manufactured since the original seasons were defined. Likewise, many schools used to have a week off on varying weeks of April, depending on the county. This year, Easter is the last day of March.
Disbroads is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 11:04 AM   #21
crisi
DIS Veteran
 
crisi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 22,681

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck S View Post
I don't think they were slow, they did some fairly major reallocations a few years ago that were met with many more complaints than accolades, because people that were used to travel in a particular season could no longer do so without purchasing more points and now the charts resemble more of the originals.

It's basically is that you can't please everyone and people are used to the charts in the basic structure they were presented with...and they bought points accordingly.

Now it is true that many owners travel patters change over the years, but it is easier to plan for those changes with fairly stable charts, than having points change dramatically year to year. If points were in continual change, DVC sales would suffer dramatically.
And that is a big problem. While they can contractually reallocate points for demand, major changes, such as increasing points for early December, are likely to create no problems than they solve. There will be a lot of complaining, and ate possibly some lawsuits if the changes are drastic enough. Meanwhile, you drop the points to go in April, that doesn't mean April people a happy. Not every DVC member had unlimited vacation time to use all their points and you don't want to pay dues on points you aren't using.

And then Disney marketing adds rum to dole whips in April, puts in a bicycle race and a hot air balloon festival, or hosts an international Lego tournament, and then the points are out of whack again because you've increased demand.
crisi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 11:05 AM   #22
luckyman_apd
DIS Veteran
 
luckyman_apd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,317

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck S View Post
Families are less likely to do any major traveling in October versus April. In October people with kids are trying to save up for Christmas presents and saving to pay for travel to see relatives for Thanksgiving and Christmas.
Exactly. Over all my years of teaching it is rare for me to see students miss school for vacations in the first or second marking period. It's just too early in the year for them to be out a while. I've spoken to cast members and they've told me September and October it's a ghost town compared to the rest of the year. Why? School just started.

As for the points seasons? It's all supply and demand. If points were the same, I'm not going to travel some other time just because the time I want is full. I probably wouldn't buy. I can only go certain times of year and I bought according to the points needed for those times. DVC is made to be at capacity year round....so if demand is high, the points should be higher to level off the demand. If demand is low, lower points requirements can entice people to travel to help fill the supply. It's the same rational in their pricing in their hotel rooms.
__________________
Coronado Apr 2009, BLT Feb 2011, SSR June 2011, DLR June 2012, BLT Nov 2012, OKW Mar 2013, SSR Aug 2013, BLT Dec 2013, BLT/BCV July 2014, SSR Sept 2014
MeDWDD(9)DS(5)
luckyman_apd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 11:10 AM   #23
LisaS
DIS Veteran
 
LisaS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: MA & AKV/BWV/VWL
Posts: 10,227

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjc2003 View Post
So would you say that DVC had been slow to adjust to the change in members' travel patterns? Is it safe to say a re-allocation should be forthcoming....or do they not care?
Reallocation is not a simple task. The number of points needed to book every room over the entire year is fixed. If they lower parts of April, they have to raise an equivalent number of points somewhere else in the year.

April and March are special cases because Easter falls within one of those months and Disney moves the two weeks surrounding Easter from Magic to Premier season every year. The two weeks surrounding Easter the prior year move down from Premier to Magic. Everything balances. Now imagine the last half of April was moved to Choice Season. What happens when Easter falls on the last Sunday in April? Two weeks move from Choice to Premier but the two weeks moved out of Premier may have been Magic weeks. Oops now we're out of balance and compensating changes would need to be made somewhere, causing ripple effects in the charts every year.

I'm guessing they want to keep all of March and all of April in the same season to avoid that problem. No matter when those two weeks surrounding Easter fall (March, April or a bit of both) they can easily move them up to Premier and down again the next year.
__________________
LisaS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 02:04 PM   #24
mjc2003
DIS Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: North Jersey
Posts: 1,227

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck S View Post
Families are less likely to do any major traveling in October versus April. In October people with kids are trying to save up for Christmas presents and saving to pay for travel to see relatives for Thanksgiving and Christmas. While October is popular at Disney because of food and wine, it is a more single adult crowd or couples without children. They tend overall to spend fewer nights, and likely also spend less on souvenirs and stuff...but more on food.
I'm sure this is true, but I would contend that families with really younger kids (like mine) make it a point to travel at off times in the fall before kids get to an age where pulling them out of school is difficult. So you are right, most families probably don't travel much in October but families with kids around grades 3rd or 4th and below do travel that time of year. We do, our friends all do, and we all dread the day when we cannot!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disbroads View Post
I think you're comparing apples to oranges. The variable pricing, along with length of stay restrictions in the cash world is yield management. It's a practice to maximize profit on their rooms inventory.

DVC doesn't have the same flexibility. We own the resorts. They're not selling when we book. They're taking orders. They only make money at the sales centers.

So they can't make major changes to the seasonal rates. People have been buying DvC for 20 years. They have bought an annual allotment that gets them their week(s) during the time they want to travel. Even the minor tweaks they do make bring on complaints out here.

DvC can't control sold out resorts, but pricing a ten year member out of being able to travel the way they bought to do is in their control, and a bit of a violation of an agreement they made.

As previously noted, October demand has been manufactured since the original seasons were defined. Likewise, many schools used to have a week off on varying weeks of April, depending on the county. This year, Easter is the last day of March.
I agree that my analogy is off base. But I don't really agree that they'd be violating any agreements by reallocating points to meet demand. The only thing that they contractually agree to keep fixed is the number of points at the resort, but the allocation is their discretion. They've already changed the allotments, so clearly it's within their right t do so.
To this point, what about the 10 year member that suddenly can't get a room anymore in the fall when it used to be easy, because the demand is through the roof...and now they are "forced" to travel in the late spring when the points are higher? Are their interests being best served by DVC management not evening out the demand by reallocating points? Hardly.
I bought exactly enough points for a 1 bedroom at BCV in the fall. I know the demand is raging in the fall. Can I really accuse them of breaking our "agreement" if they were to raise the point costs in the fall in response to rampant demand? I wouldn't think so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyman_apd View Post
DVC is made to be at capacity year round....so if demand is high, the points should be higher to level off the demand. If demand is low, lower points requirements can entice people to travel to help fill the supply.
That's my point. It's made to be at or near capacity. That's the goal. So if late spring is rife with availability but has high point costs, the point allocations are not correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LisaS View Post
Reallocation is not a simple task. The number of points needed to book every room over the entire year is fixed. If they lower parts of April, they have to raise an equivalent number of points somewhere else in the year.

April and March are special cases because Easter falls within one of those months and Disney moves the two weeks surrounding Easter from Magic to Premier season every year. The two weeks surrounding Easter the prior year move down from Premier to Magic. Everything balances. Now imagine the last half of April was moved to Choice Season. What happens when Easter falls on the last Sunday in April? Two weeks move from Choice to Premier but the two weeks moved out of Premier may have been Magic weeks. Oops now we're out of balance and compensating changes would need to be made somewhere, causing ripple effects in the charts every year.

I'm guessing they want to keep all of March and all of April in the same season to avoid that problem. No matter when those two weeks surrounding Easter fall (March, April or a bit of both) they can easily move them up to Premier and down again the next year.
I agree that if they lower points in April they would raise them at another time of year, and do understand the complexity of the system, and how it's tenuous to shake that tree because the bees might come flying out. I sort of see it as being their job to keep a balance, and not just to say "Well, when we started DVC this was the general trend so let's just pretend that's still the case".
__________________
mjc2003 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 02:41 PM   #25
LisaS
DIS Veteran
 
LisaS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: MA & AKV/BWV/VWL
Posts: 10,227

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjc2003 View Post
I agree that if they lower points in April they would raise them at another time of year, and do understand the complexity of the system, and how it's tenuous to shake that tree because the bees might come flying out. I sort of see it as being their job to keep a balance, and not just to say "Well, when we started DVC this was the general trend so let's just pretend that's still the case".
I agree with you that it's their job to reallocate when things get out of whack. They were quick to do that when demand for the THVs was greater than expected though that reallocation was limited to SSR. They did it to help balance demand for weekends vs mid-week and the ripple effects from that caused problems for those of us who suddenly did not have enough points for our usual stay (even those of us who did not limit our stay to Sun-Thu). They did it when they reclassified some Savanna View rooms at AKV to Standard View and when they made similar changes to rooms at BLT.

None of those changes involved moving weeks from one season to another however. There are limits to how much the points can change each year so tackling the job of moving things between seasons is a lot more difficult to do and may even need to be done in a series of changes.
__________________
LisaS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 03:31 PM   #26
CarolMN
DVC Co-Moderator

 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,458
DISboards Moderator

Quote:
Originally Posted by crisi View Post
....(snip).......And then Disney marketing adds rum to dole whips in April, ..........and then the points are out of whack again because you've increased demand.
Hmmmm, I wonder if the marketing people are reading this thread?

If Gaston & Company can serve wine, Cap'n Jack should be able to serve rum!


__________________
Best Wishes -



BWV - Early Morning on May 2, 2008
CarolMN is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 03:42 PM   #27
Sammie
DIS Veteran
 
Sammie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Fantasyland
Posts: 20,382

Also I am sure that lower points attract DVC members to book during traditionally slower park occupancy times, thus helping to keep Disney World close to full year round.
Sammie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 04:00 PM   #28
LisaS
DIS Veteran
 
LisaS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: MA & AKV/BWV/VWL
Posts: 10,227

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolMN View Post
Hmmmm, I wonder if the marketing people are reading this thread?

If Gaston & Company can serve wine, Cap'n Jack should be able to serve rum!


I think crisi is referring to one of the items being offered at the new food booths at the Flower & Garden festival this year. I'm looking forward to trying one!

It will be available in the "Pineapple Promenade" in the WS somewhere near Canada. The official description reads "DoleŽ Whip with Siesta Key Spiced Rum".

It is a good point though. The Flower & Garden festival doesn't draw anywhere near the number of guests as the Food & Wine festival so now Disney is adding a bit of F&W to F&G. Who knows what that might do to those late April bookings if this becomes a permanent feature of F&G.

ETA: For more info see this thread on the DIS' Restaurants forum.
__________________

Last edited by LisaS; 03-01-2013 at 04:11 PM.
LisaS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 04:18 PM   #29
CarolMN
DVC Co-Moderator

 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,458
DISboards Moderator

Quote:
Originally Posted by LisaS View Post
I think crisi is referring to one of the items being offered at the new food booths at the Flower & Garden festival this year. I'm looking forward to trying one!

It will be available in the "Pineapple Promenade" in the WS somewhere near Canada. The official description reads "DoleŽ Whip with Siesta Key Spiced Rum".

It is a good point though. The Flower & Garden festival doesn't draw anywhere near the number of guests as the Food & Wine festival so now Disney is adding a bit of F&W to F&G. Who knows what that might do to those late April bookings if this becomes a permanent feature of F&G.

ETA: For more info see this thread on the DIS' Restaurants forum.
Thanks for the info - I thought she was being funny. I've only noticed dole whips at the MK or at the Poly.

This is our year to go for the Holidays. I have to wait until next year to do F&G and F&W. So I haven't' been paying too much attention to F&G or F&W news - helps me not to feel sad that I'm missing those events this year.

But I still think rum in the Adventure Land dole whips is a good idea!
__________________
Best Wishes -



BWV - Early Morning on May 2, 2008
CarolMN is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2013, 04:50 PM   #30
crisi
DIS Veteran
 
crisi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 22,681

Quote:
Originally Posted by LisaS View Post
I think crisi is referring to one of the items being offered at the new food booths at the Flower & Garden festival this year. I'm looking forward to trying one!

It will be available in the "Pineapple Promenade" in the WS somewhere near Canada. The official description reads "DoleŽ Whip with Siesta Key Spiced Rum".

It is a good point though. The Flower & Garden festival doesn't draw anywhere near the number of guests as the Food & Wine festival so now Disney is adding a bit of F&W to F&G. Who knows what that might do to those late April bookings if this becomes a permanent feature of F&G.

ETA: For more info see this thread on the DIS' Restaurants forum.
Or anything else to draw people. I would have never thought that it would be hard to get a room over Marathon weekend in January - who knew there were that many Disney/DVC runners.

'Course, we know booze will bring them. Walt may be turning over in his grave, but its certainly one way to bring people in
crisi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

DVC-Resales.com | 1-800-550-6493 (Contact The Timeshare Store) | DVC Resale Listings

facebooktwittergoogle plus youtube itunesDIS Updates
GET OUR DIS UPDATES DELIVERED BY EMAIL



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:43 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Copyright Š 1997-2014, Werner Technologies, LLC. All Rights Reserved.