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Old 02-26-2013, 08:52 AM   #61
ColoradoDisneyFreaks
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Originally Posted by disykat View Post
You really don't get it, do you? If you read through any of the furlough threads everyone who has responded has talked about having made preparation for this and being ready to make it through.

That won't change the fact that people will be reducing spending and that some communities are going to be very hard hit by this.

Whether you are prepared or not, it's going to be tough to swallow, especially after years of cuts and freezes already. I would think you, of all people, would get that.
I think people "get it" just fine, there's no need to get angry and them, be angry with the situation, or the idiot politicians who think that grandstanding and theatrics is a good way to determine a solution.

Looking at it from the other side (I've worked both federal gov as well as private sector) yes, sequester sucks, but it's not even close to what needs to happen, and our government hasn't cut spending in the history of ever, so if it goes through, hopefully it will lead to a passed budget, along with smarter spending cuts, which honestly are going to result in some loss of jobs.
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:23 AM   #62
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In a budget of $3.6 trillion, the $85 billion sequester is less than 3%. I don't understand why agencies don't just stop travel, watch their discretionary spending (office supplies, office remodels, training, etc) and not impact the employees. Sounds to me like the cuts are being as painful as possible in order to make some sort of statement.

Inevitably the interest rate is going to rise and what will we do then (to pay the exorbitant interest debt)? I think that is when it is really going to painful for everyone.
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:34 AM   #63
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I"m talking on a micro-level here. I don't like this sour grapes mentality that some people have WRT "if I can't do well, you don't deserve to do well either."
Nobody is saying that.

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I live close to DC and I'm bracing myself for a downturn. That said, the current path is unsustainable. Federal budgets are funded from private production because the federal government does not create revenue (it assesses taxes...the revenue talk is PC for I want to take more of your money).

That said, without getting too far into the political side of this, I've always felt that the first step to getting our fiscal house in order is the need to move government agencies across the board to budget like private industry...it's called zero based budgeting and many of us who create and manage budgets have been doing this for years. Every expense is justified and you begin with no inflationary increases. You budget for negotiated salary or benefit increases, but you keep all discretionary budgeting level with the prior year unless you anticipate an increase in revenues.

Instead, the government has had a "use it or lose it" philosophy which promotes reckless spending to ensure that the next year the amount you get isn't decreased. That is just unsustainable and irresponsible budgeting.

This sequester isn't even about reducing the cash outlay of the government...there will, in point of fact, be more spending this year than last and next year than this...it's the rate of increase that it's decreasing.

I feel for anyone who will be impacted. Layoffs and furloughs suck. Perhaps we should all begin pressuring our elected officials to start budgeting smarter across the board.


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So has the federal government.
http://www.opm.gov/policy-data-overs...nt-since-1962/

Since 2007 until 2011 the Feds added 300K jobs. They did Shed 40k jobs in 2011. So no, they have not used attrition like the work ate sector. They need to shed way more than 40k jobs.
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:45 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by ilovemk76 View Post
Nobody is saying that.





You get it!


http://www.opm.gov/policy-data-overs...nt-since-1962/

Since 2007 until 2011 the Feds added 300K jobs. They did Shed 40k jobs in 2011. So no, they have not used attrition like the work ate sector. They need to shed way more than 40k jobs.
You cannot look at the entire federal government as a whole when talking about attrition. If you do that, then you also have to compare it to the entire private sector as a whole and I doubt there is any data on that. The fact is that there are many federal government agencies that are understaffed and will not be filling those positions. DH works in an office that has 3 supervisors (him being one of them) and then a head boss. The head boss just made a lateral move to another office, and one of the supervisors is in a source selection (which means that he is away from the office for months). DH has been put in charge and is doing the work of 3 people and will now be doing the work of 3 people with a 20% paycut. While they have been allowed to promote to unfilled higher positions within their department, they have not hired any new people in years.
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:57 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Christine View Post
I"m talking on a micro-level here. I don't like this sour grapes mentality that some people have WRT "if I can't do well, you don't deserve to do well either."
^This.
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:24 AM   #66
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I think people "get it" just fine,
I think so too. I wasn't replying to most people, just one person who has already had personal experience with this!
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:25 AM   #67
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This whole discussion makes me sad. I'm a DOD employee (not in DC) and I'll lose 20 percent. It stinks, but I'll get by. From a national defense perspective, it puts our country in a precarious state. The folks who enacted this laid the 50 percent DOD share on top of a continuing resolution that already has DOD functioning on a budget that is below the FY12 funding level. This depletes our readiness. The end result is we're going to be playing chicken with countries who do not wish us well. That, my friends, is not a good thing.
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:45 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by smitch425 View Post
You cannot look at the entire federal government as a whole when talking about attrition. If you do that, then you also have to compare it to the entire private sector as a whole and I doubt there is any data on that. The fact is that there are many federal government agencies that are understaffed and will not be filling those positions. DH works in an office that has 3 supervisors (him being one of them) and then a head boss. The head boss just made a lateral move to another office, and one of the supervisors is in a source selection (which means that he is away from the office for months). DH has been put in charge and is doing the work of 3 people and will now be doing the work of 3 people with a 20% paycut. While they have been allowed to promote to unfilled higher positions within their department, they have not hired any new people in years.


You do not compare the government to all the private sector but to large corporations. Large companies do exactly
What your DH's
Department does.
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:50 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by ilovemk76 View Post
You do not compare the government to all the private sector but to large corporations. Large companies do exactly
What your DH's
Department does.
My point was that you cannot look at what the government does as a whole because there are thousands of different offices. You gave a broad statistic as evidence that the government does not handle attrition the way the private sector does, but in reality it is probably very similar, as you just admitted.

Last edited by smitch425; 02-26-2013 at 12:21 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:19 PM   #70
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My point was that you cannot look at what the government does as a whole becuase there are thousands of different offices. You gave a broad statistic as evidence that the government does not handle attrition the way the private sector does, but in reality it is probably very similar, as you just admitted.


You missed the point completely. If you add 300K jobs over 3 years and on the 4th years you are shedding the excess that you hired. If they did not add the 300k jobs and then were down 40k, your way of thinking would be right.



It is possible your DH's department does ot need 60 people to get the job done.
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:30 PM   #71
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The really sad/frustrating/annoying thing is that this never needed to happen. If we had been operating under normal order, the House and the Senate would each pass a budget, then the two budgets would go to a conference committee, which would reconcile the two, a budget would get passed and signed into law. AFAIK, the last time that happened was something like 4 years ago - the House has passed budgets each year, but the Senate has been content to operate via continuing resolutions for funding. All the fights over this, the debt ceiling, tax changes - all that stuff is normally the fodder of committees and CSPAN.
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:32 PM   #72
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The really sad/frustrating/annoying thing is that this never needed to happen. If we had been operating under normal order, the House and the Senate would each pass a budget, then the two budgets would go to a conference committee, which would reconcile the two, a budget would get passed and signed into law. AFAIK, the last time that happened was something like 4 years ago - the House has passed budgets each year, but the Senate has been content to operate via continuing resolutions for funding. All the fights over this, the debt ceiling, tax changes - all that stuff is normally the fodder of committees and CSPAN.
Yep. That about sums it up.
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:54 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foreUT View Post
In a budget of $3.6 trillion, the $85 billion sequester is less than 3%. I don't understand why agencies don't just stop travel, watch their discretionary spending (office supplies, office remodels, training, etc) and not impact the employees. Sounds to me like the cuts are being as painful as possible in order to make some sort of statement.

Inevitably the interest rate is going to rise and what will we do then (to pay the exorbitant interest debt)? I think that is when it is really going to painful for everyone.
You got it.

There are many agencies and departments that are managing to adjust for sequestration without the huge impact to employees. Our agency started a hiring freeze over a year ago and between attrition and cutting travel/training/etc. we will not be furloughed. We actually only lose one contractor, the rest are staying. In the completely backwards attitude of the gov't though we've been told not to talk about it "too much". In the private sector we'd be held up as an example of good management, in the gov't we're shoved under the rug....
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:21 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by SAHDad View Post
The really sad/frustrating/annoying thing is that this never needed to happen. If we had been operating under normal order, the House and the Senate would each pass a budget, then the two budgets would go to a conference committee, which would reconcile the two, a budget would get passed and signed into law. AFAIK, the last time that happened was something like 4 years ago - the House has passed budgets each year, but the Senate has been content to operate via continuing resolutions for funding. All the fights over this, the debt ceiling, tax changes - all that stuff is normally the fodder of committees and CSPAN.


I agree. It I will add that there should have not been the huge increase in employees at a time of falling revenue. The budget needs to be balanced and hat could include layoffs and pay cuts.
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:24 PM   #75
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You got it.

There are many agencies and departments that are managing to adjust for sequestration without the huge impact to employees. Our agency started a hiring freeze over a year ago and between attrition and cutting travel/training/etc. we will not be furloughed. We actually only lose one contractor, the rest are staying. In the completely backwards attitude of the gov't though we've been told not to talk about it "too much". In the private sector we'd be held up as an example of good management, in the gov't we're shoved under the rug....
Sad isn't it! There is tons of inefficiency that needs to be addressed but will. OT be addressed.
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