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Old 02-25-2013, 12:59 PM   #31
ilovemk76
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Originally Posted by derricksonb View Post
We are in the same boat. My company has known about the Sequestor and has been planning for possible cuts for almost a year. As employees have moved to other contracts or left for other opportunities we have not back filled their positions. So when the announcement comes down to cut hours we should be in a pretty good position in regards to cutting empty billets and not letting employees go or furloughing civilian employees.

The furlough, as I understand the verbiage, would affect DoD civilian employees only by reducing their regular work schedules by 20% for the 11 pay periods beginning 29APR13 through 27SEP13 or the end of FY13. The furlough days would take place on the opposite Friday and the Monday following the regularly scheduled CWS day and will have no effect on regularly scheduled telework days. There should be no effect to currently funded contracts

Sequestration will impact hundreds of thousands of DoD and other Federal Government employees and contractors. With almost 300,000 in the DC Metro area alone we are set to take a very big hit. The average salary of a DoD civilian is between $65,000 and $72,000. A 20% reduction in salaries in just the DC/MD/VA area would equate to $2,160,000,000.00 ($2.16Billion) in lost salaries over the next 6 months that could be used to pay mortgages, pay down credit card debt, buy gas or groceries or support local business. The loss of 20% income for that many federal employees will be devastating to the local economy. The real impact will be absorbed by small businesses as consumers will have to cut back on luxuries such as going out to dinner, making home improvements, new furniture or supporting local farmers markets. Many employers in the area have already cut hours of par time employees to 29 hours per week in order to stay below the 30 hours per week mandated by the Affordable Care Act. If the private sector followed suit as a result of trickle down economics the Sequestor could lead to hours being reduced in the private sector or eliminated altogether and even less tax revenues for the state and federal governments....
What you fail to understand is that DC was insulated from the recession. Most others areas already took this hit. The DC economy is all tax money. Other areas have already adjusted. We cannot keep borrowing money to help YE Dc economy when it is crippling the nation.

Many of us have already seen this cut and we did not get to only work 32 hours. We adjusted and so will DC.
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Old 02-25-2013, 01:20 PM   #32
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I think the whole thing is just absurd. It's an invented "solution" to a poorly thought out problem. In the meantime, agencies and employees are forced to waste lots of time working out plans for sequester, rather than doing their regular jobs.
On the good side, I don't see it lasting. If the sequester does go into effect, I think the thing that will bring it to a quick end is air travel.
I believe first there will be long lines at TSA checkpoints, followed by gradually increasing random flight cancellations. If this happens, there will be a huge uproar.

My bet-Washington will act surprised and suddenly find a solution. Pretty pathetic way to run a country.

(And yes, the furlough affects our family. It will be a 20% paycut, should these shannagins go on into April.)
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Old 02-25-2013, 01:23 PM   #33
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What you fail to understand is that DC was insulated from the recession. Most others areas already took this hit. The DC economy is all tax money. Other areas have already adjusted. We cannot keep borrowing money to help YE Dc economy when it is crippling the nation.

Many of us have already seen this cut and we did not get to only work 32 hours. We adjusted and so will DC.
I'm not sure why you think no one understands, and your posts are coming off as if we should not be complaining about this. I don't think that is how you mean your posts to sound, at least I hope not. Federal employees who will be furloughed WILL lose some of their benefits. They will earn reduced vacation and sick leave for that time period in addition to lost wages. Having $10,000 of your income taken away because of bad politics and government procrastination is still a hard pill to swallow despite knowing it was coming. DH's office is understaffed and under the required budgetary requirements, but they will still be furloughed. He is currently supervising 60 employees, and none of them want to work even though there is work to be done. To say that morale is low is a gross understatement. We are blessed that we have saved the money to get through this, but many of our friends will be in dire straights. The local economy will suffer in this area like nothing we have seen before. It is a very sad time in this country and unfortunately it will continue until Washington decides to do something to fix it.
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Old 02-25-2013, 01:52 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by ilovemk76 View Post
What you fail to understand is that DC was insulated from the recession. Most others areas already took this hit. The DC economy is all tax money. Other areas have already adjusted. We cannot keep borrowing money to help YE Dc economy when it is crippling the nation.

Many of us have already seen this cut and we did not get to only work 32 hours. We adjusted and so will DC.
Believe me I fully understand that the DC metro area and outlying suburbs have been somewhat shielded from the recession by federal tax dollars. I live about 72 miles west of DC in a WV county that has hovered around 20% unemployment since the recession hit (even though the numbers reported have been closer to 8%, but that's a discussion for another topic). We are considered a bedroom community for DC and NoVA and the furlough will cause many of us to tighten our belts even further and less of our income will make it's way into communities that have already been hard hit. As you suggest belt tightening is always painful, but when done carefully one can usually get back to a more or less normal life.

FWIW- I agree with you that we as a nation can no longer afford to borrow money in order to continue supporting wasteful government programs. So far I have heard two solutions from the congress and this President. Cut tax loop holes for the highest earners (raise taxes) and cut spending on DoD and some non-DoD agencies. The one solution that neither side has suggested is to cut entitlement spending not funded through the individual employees paycheck. (i.e.- no cuts to Social Security, SSI disability or medicare/medicaid.... )

Rand Paul (R-KY) presented in 2011 a budget plan that would cut $1.6 Trillion in unnecessary and/or redundant spending across all branches and agencies of the federal government and balance the federal budget. It also returned many of the bloated federal agencies (education, HUD, etc...) back to individual state control with minimal or no federal oversight. Although in order to implement any plan to reduce the budget by $44Billion, $85Billion or $1.6Trillion the first step would be for this congress to actually pass a budget- A feat that this congress has failed to do since April 29, 2009 and, along with the raising of the Debt Ceiling and last years "fiscal Cliff" have directly resulted in the upcoming budget cuts and Sequestration.
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Old 02-25-2013, 01:57 PM   #35
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What you fail to understand is that DC was insulated from the recession. Most others areas already took this hit. The DC economy is all tax money. Other areas have already adjusted. We cannot keep borrowing money to help YE Dc economy when it is crippling the nation.

Many of us have already seen this cut and we did not get to only work 32 hours. We adjusted and so will DC.
You seem to think that it is only DC people that are facing these cuts. There are many areas around the country that are going to be effected. Small business owners around here are very worried. And if they go out of business, there aren't any places hiring. If DH loses 20% of his pay, we can't shop at those smaller stores that charge more. I love the butcher and the farmer's market. But if my grocery bill gets cut in half or more, I can't shop there anymore since I simply can't afford it. The small business that are barely making it are going to go under.

The Headstart programs that are getting the hit, those teachers will be out of jobs too. They have said that they will have to cut the teachers aides that help with special needs children in schools. Those aides will be out of a job. All this is going to do is put more people out of work in an economy that can't really handle it.
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Old 02-25-2013, 02:21 PM   #36
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I'm not sure why you think no one understands, and your posts are coming off as if we should not be complaining about this. I don't think that is how you mean your posts to sound, at least I hope not. Federal employees who will be furloughed WILL lose some of their benefits. They will earn reduced vacation and sick leave for that time period in addition to lost wages. Having $10,000 of your income taken away because of bad politics and government procrastination is still a hard pill to swallow despite knowing it was coming. DH's office is understaffed and under the required budgetary requirements, but they will still be furloughed. He is currently supervising 60 employees, and none of them want to work even though there is work to be done. To say that morale is low is a gross understatement. We are blessed that we have saved the money to get through this, but many of our friends will be in dire straights. The local economy will suffer in this area like nothing we have seen before. It is a very sad time in this country and unfortunately it will continue until Washington decides to do something to fix it.
I think the point the poster was trying to make was that government employess, for the most part, haven't felt the job market crisis. The difference in umemployment number between the private sector and the public sector is huge. The private sector didn't just lose benefits and hours, they lost entire jobs. Morale in the private sector has been low for years. Local economies have been suffering for years. Sad time in our country has been going on. This furlough isn't anything new. It's just that its hitting the public sector now.

The fact that the government will be spending less to employ people, while not a great situation, is far less troubling to me than amount of jobs that have been completely lost in the private sector. Government jobs don't create wealth, don't bring in revenue to the government.
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Old 02-25-2013, 02:29 PM   #37
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I think the point the poster was trying to make was that government employess, for the most part, haven't felt the job market crisis. The difference in umemployment number between the private sector and the public sector is huge. The private sector didn't just lose benefits and hours, they lost entire jobs. Morale in the private sector has been low for years. Local economies have been suffering for years. Sad time in our country has been going on. This furlough isn't anything new. It's just that its hitting the public sector now.

The fact that the government will be spending less to employ people, while not a great situation, is far less troubling to me than amount of jobs that have been completely lost in the private sector. Government jobs don't create wealth, don't bring in revenue to the government.
Oh, I get that, believe me, but just because we are concerned about how we are going to be affected does not mean we "don't understand" other things. It is not very nice to assume that we don't. That is what I meant.
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Old 02-25-2013, 02:43 PM   #38
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Believe me I fully understand that the DC metro area and outlying suburbs have been somewhat shielded from the recession by federal tax dollars. I live about 72 miles west of DC in a WV county that has hovered around 20% unemployment since the recession hit (even though the numbers reported have been closer to 8%, but that's a discussion for another topic). We are considered a bedroom community for DC and NoVA and the furlough will cause many of us to tighten our belts even further and less of our income will make it's way into communities that have already been hard hit. As you suggest belt tightening is always painful, but when done carefully one can usually get back to a more or less normal life.

FWIW- I agree with you that we as a nation can no longer afford to borrow money in order to continue supporting wasteful government programs. So far I have heard two solutions from the congress and this President. Cut tax loop holes for the highest earners (raise taxes) and cut spending on DoD and some non-DoD agencies. The one solution that neither side has suggested is to cut entitlement spending not funded through the individual employees paycheck. (i.e.- no cuts to Social Security, SSI disability or medicare/medicaid.... )

Rand Paul (R-KY) presented in 2011 a budget plan that would cut $1.6 Trillion in unnecessary and/or redundant spending across all branches and agencies of the federal government and balance the federal budget. It also returned many of the bloated federal agencies (education, HUD, etc...) back to individual state control with minimal or no federal oversight. Although in order to implement any plan to reduce the budget by $44Billion, $85Billion or $1.6Trillion the first step would be for this congress to actually pass a budget- A feat that this congress has failed to do since April 29, 2009 and, along with the raising of the Debt Ceiling and last years "fiscal Cliff" have directly resulted in the upcoming budget cuts and Sequestration.


ITA

If we do not fix this we will be the next Greece and these furloughs will we looked upon as the good times.

Entitlements have to be cut too they are about 60% of the federal spending Put another way they use all of the tax money we collect.

So many Americans bank on that check coming in every month and never plan for the future. I can't recount how many times I have heard , "We can afford it. I get paid on Friday.". This is not a discussion about carrots but luxuries.

Sure losing 20% of your income hurts but many have seen it happened and realized allyhe waste in their budgets and found their standard of living did no decrease by that amount.
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Old 02-25-2013, 02:47 PM   #39
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I think the point the poster was trying to make was that government employess, for the most part, haven't felt the job market crisis. The difference in umemployment number between the private sector and the public sector is huge. The private sector didn't just lose benefits and hours, they lost entire jobs. Morale in the private sector has been low for years. Local economies have been suffering for years. Sad time in our country has been going on. This furlough isn't anything new. It's just that its hitting the public sector now.

The fact that the government will be spending less to employ people, while not a great situation, is far less troubling to me than amount of jobs that have been completely lost in the private sector. Government jobs don't create wealth, don't bring in revenue to the government.

This is exactly what I am saying.

Government employee have been sheltered from this most of their careers. In the past they would get retro pay for furloughs. So they did not work, Got paid and then may have even got OT to get the job done they were paid for already. A net loss to taxpayers.
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Old 02-25-2013, 02:59 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by joviroxx View Post
I think the point the poster was trying to make was that government employess, for the most part, haven't felt the job market crisis. The difference in umemployment number between the private sector and the public sector is huge. The private sector didn't just lose benefits and hours, they lost entire jobs. Morale in the private sector has been low for years. Local economies have been suffering for years. Sad time in our country has been going on. This furlough isn't anything new. It's just that its hitting the public sector now.

The fact that the government will be spending less to employ people, while not a great situation, is far less troubling to me than amount of jobs that have been completely lost in the private sector. Government jobs don't create wealth, don't bring in revenue to the government.
And the point that I want to make is that we all realize that budgets need to be cut and downsizing needs to occur. But let's do it in a smart way. The sequester is not the smart way. It also causes all these government agencies to go into this weird "contingency" mode that is 100% unhelpful. My senior management has to go into a planning meeting every morning for 2 hours to address the latest updates. We've got our HR people going through these crazy drills to get everything outlined on paper. Just come of with a freaking reduced budget and let us do our jobs.

To think that federal employees have been heartless about private employees losing jobs is just misguided. Many of us a married to people working in the private sector who have been laid off, many of us have kids in the private sector who have been laid off, and many of us have had parents who were in the private sector who were laid off and will never work again because of age discrimination. So please don't think that we are living in some la-la land.

I don't really care for the attitude of "Oh well, it's been going on the in private sector so just suck it up." There's seems to be a lot of 'joy' in people watching others get pulled down. What's with this stupid race-to-the-bottom mentality?
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Old 02-25-2013, 03:01 PM   #41
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Federal employees with high specific skills such as engineers and accountants accept lower pay than in the private sector in exchange for benefits and job security. We will lose some of these people.
Good schools who produce good students cannot afford any more budget cuts. Do you want your children in a class with 45 students, 15% special needs or behavior problems, no aide, taught by a teacher who has been forced to give up her prep period? This is where we are heading.
Politicians rarely send their kids to public schools, no matter what political party.
Cut waste of course. But do you think a 20% tax rate in a middle class family of 5 is nearly the same sacrifice as a 14% tax rate in a mufti-millionaire? Raising taxes on the very wealthy may be one of the ways we don't become Greece. Also, there are foreign aid programs that could be decreased or temporarily suspended.
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Old 02-25-2013, 03:03 PM   #42
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This is exactly what I am saying.

Government employee have been sheltered from this most of their careers. In the past they would get retro pay for furloughs. So they did not work, Got paid and then may have even got OT to get the job done they were paid for already. A net loss to taxpayers.
Blame your government for that and not the worker.

Also remember that during the "go-go" 80s and most of the 90s, no one gave a rat's behind that the government worker, while "sheltered" was way behind in pay/benefits during the boom years. I was a contractor then working in support of the federal government and I was making quite a bit more than my government counterparts. Nope, people only want to complain about the government worker when their situation happens to turn around. I guess the private sector will only speak up with they are no longer on top.
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Old 02-25-2013, 03:31 PM   #43
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Federal employees with high specific skills such as engineers and accountants accept lower pay than in the private sector in exchange for benefits and job security. We will lose some of these people.
Good schools who produce good students cannot afford any more budget cuts. Do you want your children in a class with 45 students, 15% special needs or behavior problems, no aide, taught by a teacher who has been forced to give up her prep period? This is where we are heading.
Politicians rarely send their kids to public schools, no matter what political party.
Cut waste of course. But do you think a 20% tax rate in a middle class family of 5 is nearly the same sacrifice as a 14% tax rate in a mufti-millionaire? Raising taxes on the very wealthy may be one of the ways we don't become Greece. Also, there are foreign aid programs that could be decreased or temporarily suspended.


Not according to http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...ay_N.htm#chart

One has to look at the total compensation package when comparing two jobs. The public employees geT more benefits, you agree, and they out earn the private sector.
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Old 02-25-2013, 03:35 PM   #44
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you know, they should just say "y'all are going to have to work the same amount of hours but take a pay cut." Don't drag it out by pushing it all down the street a few months at a time and making people think they're going to get their old pay levels back.
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Old 02-25-2013, 03:45 PM   #45
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Blame your government for that and not the worker.

Also remember that during the "go-go" 80s and most of the 90s, no one gave a rat's behind that the government worker, while "sheltered" was way behind in pay/benefits during the boom years. I was a contractor then working in support of the federal government and I was making quite a bit more than my government counterparts. Nope, people only want to complain about the government worker when their situation happens to turn around. I guess the private sector will only speak up with they are no longer on top.
OK, I won't say much because politics is against the rules here, but Im not sure what you are saying or implying. The government worker is paid from the production of the private sector. Its their production that produces tax revenue to pay government workers. If the private sector isn't on top, government will NOT have money to pay for anything. The private sector NEEDS to be on top for the government to be able to pay their employees.
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