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Old 02-23-2013, 10:56 AM   #1
rachel09985
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What Camera to Upgrade To

Hi! I really want to upgrade from the T3 to the T4i or 60D.

Here are things I am looking for in a new camera.

Better Image Quality. I feel the T3 has bad image quality in low light, but that could be me too.

Grips- I don't like how the T3 has no grips.

I am sure there are others too but I can't think of them right now.

Can anyone recommend one or the other? I am leaning towards the the T4i but do you have any reasons to switch to the 60D?

Another thing to think of is it even worth it to upgrade the camera? Would you just get a faster lens like the Tamron 18-55?

Sorry for all the questions but I had to ask the experts. Any advice you can give is appreciated!
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Old 02-23-2013, 11:44 AM   #2
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I would upgrade the lens now and wait for an updated sensor for Canon's APSC cameras. The sensor in the T4i and 60D will hopefully be updated soon. Especially that Nikon just introduced the D7100.
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Old 02-23-2013, 02:06 PM   #3
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A couple of questions. The lowlight performance can be a combination of things. One being the camera and second the lens or a combination of both. What lenses do you have for the T3? Second, what is your budget? The T3 is Canon's absolute bottom entry level DSLR. Therefore, they usuallly have a combination of older technology along with some newer and a cheaper body to contain costs. Here is the dpreview.com review for your camera. You can also check the reviews for the cameras you may want for an upgrade.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos1100D

Since one of your complaints is the lack of rubberized grips, I would definitely find a brick and mortar store in you area and get hands on any camera that you are considering. The best thing you can do to improve your images is to do a little studying. If you haven't already, I would read a book by Bryan Peterson called Understanding Exposure. This will give you the basics that will allow you to make better images. Its an easly read and goes for about $16 at Amazon.
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Old 02-23-2013, 02:10 PM   #4
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What lenses do you have now?

You will get more bang for your buck buying new lenses than going from a t3 to a t4.
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Old 02-23-2013, 02:58 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rachel09985 View Post
Hi! I really want to upgrade from the T3 to the T4i or 60D.

Here are things I am looking for in a new camera.

Better Image Quality. I feel the T3 has bad image quality in low light, but that could be me too.

Grips- I don't like how the T3 has no grips.

I am sure there are others too but I can't think of them right now.

Can anyone recommend one or the other? I am leaning towards the the T4i but do you have any reasons to switch to the 60D?

Another thing to think of is it even worth it to upgrade the camera? Would you just get a faster lens like the Tamron 18-55?

Sorry for all the questions but I had to ask the experts. Any advice you can give is appreciated!
If you're just using the kit lens then faster glass will give you a a good bump up on low light. If you go with fast primes you'll get a huge bump. And even with a new camera you'll still probably want the faster glass for low light work.

Now... I'd go for the T4i over the 60D. It's a newer sensor and image processor and also has the ability to auto focus when shooting video (when used with the STM lenses) and a few other useful features.

They will both be bump up over the T3 in terms of features but it's questionable how much image quality you will gain. (I want to make sure we're not confused with the T3i as I think a poster may have already done in this thread, which is a different camera). The T3's ISO range stops at 6400 so you'll have a couple more stops with the both the T4i and the 60D. But as to how useable those stops are for you is the big question. dpreview.com has a comparison tool that will let you compare ISO to ISO between two cameras. Go use it and see for yourself if the noise levels are enough of a gain for you to justify spending the money.

You can add a battery grip to any of the cameras that makes them a little heftier. Or if you just mean the rubber grip surface, you can add that to the body as well.

Edited to add... also, much of getting great low light shots is knowing how. I've seen many photographers pull amazing low light shots out of far less camera than what you have.
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Old 02-23-2013, 04:32 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gianna'sPapa View Post
A couple of questions. The lowlight performance can be a combination of things. One being the camera and second the lens or a combination of both. What lenses do you have for the T3? Second, what is your budget? The T3 is Canon's absolute bottom entry level DSLR. Therefore, they usuallly have a combination of older technology along with some newer and a cheaper body to contain costs. Here is the dpreview.com review for your camera. You can also check the reviews for the cameras you may want for an upgrade.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos1100D

Since one of your complaints is the lack of rubberized grips, I would definitely find a brick and mortar store in you area and get hands on any camera that you are considering. The best thing you can do to improve your images is to do a little studying. If you haven't already, I would read a book by Bryan Peterson called Understanding Exposure. This will give you the basics that will allow you to make better images. Its an easly read and goes for about $16 at Amazon.
Yes I have that book. Thanks for the suggestion. I have been lazy and haven't read it yet though. My budget is probably $1K.

The lenses I have are the Nifty 50, 55-250, and the Kit lens. I use the 50mm for lowlight.
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Old 02-23-2013, 04:34 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by photo_chick View Post
If you're just using the kit lens then faster glass will give you a a good bump up on low light. If you go with fast primes you'll get a huge bump. And even with a new camera you'll still probably want the faster glass for low light work.

Now... I'd go for the T4i over the 60D. It's a newer sensor and image processor and also has the ability to auto focus when shooting video (when used with the STM lenses) and a few other useful features.

They will both be bump up over the T3 in terms of features but it's questionable how much image quality you will gain. (I want to make sure we're not confused with the T3i as I think a poster may have already done in this thread, which is a different camera). The T3's ISO range stops at 6400 so you'll have a couple more stops with the both the T4i and the 60D. But as to how useable those stops are for you is the big question. dpreview.com has a comparison tool that will let you compare ISO to ISO between two cameras. Go use it and see for yourself if the noise levels are enough of a gain for you to justify spending the money.

You can add a battery grip to any of the cameras that makes them a little heftier. Or if you just mean the rubber grip surface, you can add that to the body as well.

Edited to add... also, much of getting great low light shots is knowing how. I've seen many photographers pull amazing low light shots out of far less camera than what you have.
Thanks. It is the T3 not the T3i. I do use the 50mm for low light but not all the time.
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Old 02-23-2013, 04:35 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rachel09985 View Post
Yes I have that book. Thanks for the suggestion. I have been lazy and haven't read it yet though. My budget is probably $1K.

The lenses I have are the Nifty 50, 55-250, and the Kit lens. I use the 50mm for lowlight.
You should be able to do really well in low light with the 50mm f/1.8 on the T3. What is it that you're having problems with?
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Old 02-23-2013, 04:52 PM   #9
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You should be able to do really well in low light with the 50mm f/1.8 on the T3. What is it that you're having problems with?
I just feel like they are really grainy if I bump the ISO all the way up. Is that normal? Would the T4i even fix that?

And I have a hard time auto focusing with that lens. It searches for it a lot.

Edit- I am looking at my pictures from past trip and I guess my main complaint is when I am using the kit lens. I feel like my images aren't great with that. I suppose that should mean I should just upgrade the kit lens then.
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Old 02-23-2013, 04:59 PM   #10
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for example this picture



For example this picture was taken at ISO 3200 28m f/4 1/30.

What can I do to help the noise?
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Old 02-23-2013, 10:04 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rachel09985 View Post
for example this picture



For example this picture was taken at ISO 3200 28m f/4 1/30.

What can I do to help the noise?
If you are using a tripod for that shot, I would bump the ISO down to 800 at most and use 1/8 as the shutter speed to help with the noise while keeping your depth of field stable.
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Old 02-23-2013, 10:31 PM   #12
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Any of the canon apsc sensor's will struggle with noise above 800. Been down that road. You can rent the 17-55 2.8 is and try an extra stop for that pic would have brought you down to iso 1600. Also a tripod would work but I know what its like to carry all that gear. You can rent or buy a canon 6d which would have better noise at 3200-6400. Finally address it in post like topaz denoise or lightroom. Really thats my exact issue and it helped when I went full frame. Much better noise tolerances.
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Old 02-23-2013, 10:45 PM   #13
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Just went through the same debate...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rachel09985 View Post
Hi! I really want to upgrade from the T3 to the T4i or 60D
I went backhand forth for months. Ran a T3 with the 18-55 and 75-300 kits lens since June 2011, and picked up a nifty 50 earlier this year. My issue was speed - I shoot a lot of pictures of various events with our martial arts school. I also wanted to get better lighting for both sports and portrait shots.

I went to our local photography store and played with both models for over an hour. In the end, I went with the 60d. Much better performance when shooting in burst mode, and the battery life is much better than the T4i. Loved the video and LCD screen features on the T4i, but for my needs, the 60D just fit better. I was able to pick one up that was a factory refurb - so that got me an even better deal - $899 for the body and kit 18-135 lens, and then I added a 3 yr warranty that covers both body and lens. I've been very pleased with how it's performed so far.
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Old 02-23-2013, 11:19 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rachel09985 View Post
I just feel like they are really grainy if I bump the ISO all the way up. Is that normal? Would the T4i even fix that?

And I have a hard time auto focusing with that lens. It searches for it a lot.

Edit- I am looking at my pictures from past trip and I guess my main complaint is when I am using the kit lens. I feel like my images aren't great with that. I suppose that should mean I should just upgrade the kit lens then.
Noise is a characteristic of digital sensors just like grain was with film. And the shots you posted don't have bad noise. But will the T4i give you a good bump in noise performance... that's really subjective and why I like the preview.com comparison tool so much. Some will say it doesn't, some will swear it does. It's subjective. And it's also not just as simple as get a better performing camera and you'll have less noise. How you're shooting is an important factor... are you shooting RAW or JPEG? What are you doing for noise reduction in processing? The lens you use also impacts noise. Some lenses, especially entry level lenses, tend to have a gritty look to them that actually amplifies noise. Higher end lenses are sharper and have better contrast which makes noise reduction more effective as well.

I'm going to strongly disagree with the statement made that any of Canon's APS-C sensors struggle above ISO 800. That hasn't been my experience at all. But again, it comes down to more than just the camera.

Now...back to the picture you posted... it's actually a little overexposed and that's exacerbating the noise. A tripod would let you get a lower ISO very easily and if I used a tripod for that shot I'd just go ahead and go with ISO 100 and get a long exposure. But if I wanted to go hand held, which is my preference, I'd use a fast prime. Probably my 50mm f/1.8 since it's so light, hand hold with a shutter speed of 1/15 since I know I can get by with that easily using that lens on a light camera, and set the ISO at 800 and see if it got me the exposure. If that did it and my aperture wasn't all the way open I might drop the ISO down another stop. It really depends on how things went when I was there though.

The kit lens... the 18-55 is a solid entry level lens. It's great for general shooting. What it's not great for is low light.

And yes, the 50mm f/1.8 hunts more than Elmer Fudd in low light. It's a $100 lens.
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Old 02-23-2013, 11:56 PM   #15
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Yes its been said by many if not all review sites and my personal experience. When you shoot above iso 800 on canon apsc sensors there is going to be noise. Yeah can it be fixed in post sure depending on the shot. Yes your right is is about opinion. What is noisy at iso 1600 to me may be clean to you. I had rhe t1i, t2i, 60d so I know how they perform even with some of the better lenses. (15-85, 17-55, 24-105l). Either way the introduce luminance noise and chroma noise depending on the scene. Yes the t4i will handle it better but even the digic 5+ in my 5d3 smears fine detail to reduce noise. I was not bashing the line. I love canon and hope to grab the new 7d mark ii this year. Finally the new sensor tech will be out. Then those numbers should climb.
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