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Old 02-22-2013, 04:26 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by sam_gordon View Post
So if the students didn't snoop, they wouldn't have been thinking Disney, right? And the teachers are at fault? Sorry, but no. The students brought this on themselves.
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Old 02-22-2013, 04:35 PM   #107
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I have been teaching high school freshmen (only one year older than these kids) for 21 years. I would never disrespect my students in this manner nor do I tolerate disrespectful behavior between students in my class. If I was worried that kids might see something on my desk that I didn't want them to see, I would put it away or lock it up. Better yet, I would discuss the problem with them and ask them to stop doing it. I would spell out clear consequences for the behavior and enforce the consequences...without disappointing or humiliating the entire group, many who would kill to travel to Disney World. I can't imagine what the atmosphere in my class would be like for the remainder of the year if I did something like this. Who would want to listen to me? Who would see me as a role model?
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Old 02-22-2013, 04:35 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by sam_gordon View Post
I think a better analogy would be...

A coworker sees a memo on a supervisor's desk/computer that everyone is getting a 2 week bonus and tells everyone what he saw. The company has meeting and talks about how sales are through the roof, expenses are down, the company is just raking in the money. As a "Thank you" to the employees for all the hard work they've done, here's a $50 gift card to a restaurant for all employees. Now, would you be disappointed you weren't getting 2 weeks extra pay? Yes. Would you be upset at the company because they didn't give you what you THOUGHT they were going to give you?
If the company created the memo with the hope that someone would snoop, see it and spread rumors that the employees were getting a 2 week bonus.....YES!

If the company created a slideshow intended to imply that there was a 2 week bonus, then end it with a big "Gotcha" and tape the employees reactions.....YES
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Old 02-22-2013, 04:39 PM   #109
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And you alone were punished. She didn't return all the presents for all the members of the family.

Actually no, I told my brother who also lost his presents.

I was 8, these kids were teenagers. They should have known better to snoop or to believe rumors and if they didn't then this was an opportunity for a life lesson but as usuall it's been turned into a greek tragedy by the parents.

Was it the best approach to teaching them a lesson, eh maybe not but let me tell you I've seen more mistakes by parents then teachers and I feel somewhat bad for both the students and the teachers.

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Old 02-22-2013, 04:45 PM   #110
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Disney World disappointment aside, I just think the it's a poor lesson. The subtext is, if you think someone is doing something wrong, you can manipulate them, and everyone around them, taunt them, then videotape their reaction and show it to others to mock them.

Now imagine that these 8th graders utilize this lesson, and start treating their friends this way.....

When they do it, we'll call it bullying.
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Old 02-22-2013, 04:46 PM   #111
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Actually no, I told my brother who also lost his presents.

I was 8, these kids were teenagers. They should have known better to snoop or to believe rumors and if they didn't then this was an opportunity for a life lesson but as usuall it's been turned into a greek tragedy by the parents.

Was it the best approach to teaching them a lesson, eh maybe not but let me tell you I've seen more mistakes by parents then teachers and I feel somewhat bad for both the students and the teachers.

I
*These* kids were actually just *2* kids per the article and video. So, you think it was correct to punish *all* the others to teach them all a lesson? Actually what *lesson* do you think they all learned?

I'll tell you what I learned. That some teachers (2, in this case) are *liers* and totally not to be trusted. They are bullies. Of course children are not to be bullies to each other, just teachers to children.

If you have children, would you like to see them taken advantage of by adults in authority? If my children are wrong (and believe me, I make sure I *see* both side, all sides, whatever) they *pay*. By the same token, when they are wronged (like here) I will take up for them. Right is right, wrong is wrong. I cannot stand bullying. Just because they are kids, it doesn't mean they should take it. They might not know, or can, push back, but I can on their behalf.

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Old 02-22-2013, 04:51 PM   #112
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The kids will get over it. No harm done.
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Old 02-22-2013, 04:53 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Embel View Post
Disney World disappointment aside, I just think the it's a poor lesson. The subtext is, if you think someone is doing something wrong, you can manipulate them, and everyone around them, taunt them, then videotape their reaction and show it to others to mock them.

Now imagine that these 8th graders utilize this lesson, and start treating their friends this way.....

When they do it, we'll call it bullying.
This is the problem. It is bullying.

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*These* kids were actually just *2* kids per the article and video. So, you think it was correct to punish *all* the others to teach them all a lesson? Actually what *lesson* do you think they all learned?

I'll tell you what I learned. That some teachers (2, in this case) are *liers* and totally not to be trusted. They are bullies. Of course children are not to be bullies to each other, just teachers to children.
Incorrect. It was an entire class. There are many errors and inconsistencies in the media at present.

Some of the responses in this thread are just plain ridiculous. Take Disney out of it, as that is not relevant. What is relevant, is that the teachers put a lot of time and attention into creating an elaborate hoax, and then showed others the reaction from the hoax. It is not how we teach lessons, and shows a serious lack of judgment. The children should not have to accept this behaviour whatsoever. The fact that it came from a trusting adult is the big issue here.

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Old 02-22-2013, 05:18 PM   #114
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Folks, get off the bullying bandwagon. This wasn't bullying in any way shape or form, there was no belittling, no name calling, no attempt to destroy self esteem, there were even any specific kids called out. The amount of hyperbole used in the descriptions here has been amazing. Was it a prank in poor taste, yeah, but the kids aren't destroyed, they aren't scarred for life, most likely, the relationships between the students and their teachers hasn't even been damaged.

The fact that they recorded it, so what? There's been no post of the recording, so they obviously didn't record it to humiliate the kids publicly (greater public, not the school). They got reprimanded, end of story, the only thing giving this legs is those parents who are oh so appalled that the kids might have possibly been exposed to dissappointment, because <sarc>that'll never happen in real life!</sarc>.
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:25 PM   #115
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Folks, get off the bullying bandwagon. This wasn't bullying in any way shape or form, there was no belittling, no name calling, no attempt to destroy self esteem, there were even any specific kids called out. The amount of hyperbole used in the descriptions here has been amazing. Was it a prank in poor taste, yeah, but the kids aren't destroyed, they aren't scarred for life, most likely, the relationships between the students and their teachers hasn't even been damaged.

The fact that they recorded it, so what? There's been no post of the recording, so they obviously didn't record it to humiliate the kids publicly (greater public, not the school). They got reprimanded, end of story, the only thing giving this legs is those parents who are oh so appalled that the kids might have possibly been exposed to dissappointment, because <sarc>that'll never happen in real life!</sarc>.
Yes it was bullying. You may want to check your knowledge of bullying. Bullying does not only encompass the factors that you named...Trust between us teachers and a student is the most important part of our relationship. The fact that these teachers didn't have enough foresight to think about their students' reactions to the hoax, is very concerning to me as a senior teacher. When I mentor new teachers, this is one of the areas that I really pay special attention to.

Let's just say I have firsthand knowledge of the situation, and it was most definitely done to humiliate the kids under the guise of humour. The climate of the school is very, very tense at the moment...

Should the teachers be fired. Absolutely not. They absolutely should have been disciplined (which happened in private this afternoon). They also need some sensitivity training and a discussion on good judgment.

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Old 02-22-2013, 05:26 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoradoDisneyFreaks View Post
Folks, get off the bullying bandwagon. This wasn't bullying in any way shape or form, there was no belittling, no name calling, no attempt to destroy self esteem, there were even any specific kids called out. The amount of hyperbole used in the descriptions here has been amazing. Was it a prank in poor taste, yeah, but the kids aren't destroyed, they aren't scarred for life, most likely, the relationships between the students and their teachers hasn't even been damaged.

The fact that they recorded it, so what? There's been no post of the recording, so they obviously didn't record it to humiliate the kids publicly (greater public, not the school). They got reprimanded, end of story, the only thing giving this legs is those parents who are oh so appalled that the kids might have possibly been exposed to dissappointment, because <sarc>that'll never happen in real life!</sarc>.
Dude, I have no doubt it will damage the relationship between some if not most of the students and their teacher(s). As a former para, I can tell you that that's a huge part of what most good teachers work for: a good relationship between them and the kids. Without that, not nearly as much learning takes place and love of school and learning is not fostered.

Funny, all the teachers (or those who identified themselves as teachers) who posted on here felt the teachers who pulled the prank were very wrong in doing so.
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:42 PM   #117
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It was *not* a big rich neighborhood.

Just looked a video where the one mother said her son told her it would be $250 ea. and they needed to do a fund raiser. She questioned her son, but he said that's what it was. This was on a Fri. of a long week end. They were told on Tues. that it was all a hoax.
Makes no sense. Everything was rumors for a week - garnered by one or more students snooping on a teacher's desk and sharing what they thought was accurate information with classmates. Information about the airfare (that 'nervous voice' referring to cheap airfare) was provided during the same PowerPoint session where teachers revealed the actual trip was to a local bowling facility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger926
The bottom line, is that the teachers acted with serious bad judgment. Mocking, embarassing and insulting children, is not what we are called to do as teachers. These are young kids of 12-13 years old, and at that age, they are very much finding themselves within the larger social community. They have been struggling with this hoax, as it speaks to trust issues with their teachers.
"These kids" are getting younger as the thread progresses. They started as 14-year-olds, then 13- and 14-year-olds, then 13-year olds, now 12- and 13-year olds... By the time the thread is done, we're going to have a class full of eight-year-old eighth graders!

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Originally Posted by Tiger926
The biggest problem is that to add insult to injury, the teachers showed the entire thing to another class in the school. The teachers acted like bullies, and this is never acceptable.
Truly, it's not bullying. About.com has a good definition:
"Definition of Bullying
Definition:
Bullying is intentional aggressive behavior. It can take the form of physical or verbal harassment and involves an imbalance of power (a group of children can gang up on a victim or someone who is physically bigger or more aggressive can intimidate someone else, for instance).

Bullying behavior can include teasing, insulting someone (particularly about their weight or height, race, sexuality, religion or other personal traits), shoving, hitting, excluding someone, or gossiping about someone.

Bullying can cause a victim to feel upset, afraid, ashamed, embarrassed, and anxious about going to school. It can involve children of any age, including younger elementary grade-schoolers and even kindergarteners. Bullying behavior is frequently repeated unless there is intervention."
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:45 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by Tiger926 View Post
This is the problem. It is bullying.



Incorrect. It was an entire class. There are many errors and inconsistencies in the media at present.

Some of the responses in this thread are just plain ridiculous. Take Disney out of it, as that is not relevant. What is relevant, is that the teachers put a lot of time and attention into creating an elaborate hoax, and then showed others the reaction from the hoax. It is not how we teach lessons, and shows a serious lack of judgment. The children should not have to accept this behaviour whatsoever. The fact that it came from a trusting adult is the big issue here.

Tiger
Nope, you are wrong.

The entire class was *not* snooping
I've probably read all the news articles and watched all the videos that you have. One article said *a child*, one said two children were the culprits.

A parent interviewed on one video said her child watched the presentation, saw posters, etc. on Friday, then had a long weekend, went back on Tuesday, and was told it was a hoax. This was *after* a few days of hints, brochures, etc. being left lying around.

And yes, Disney is *very* relevant.
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:48 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by kaytieeldr View Post
Makes no sense. Everything was rumors for a week - garnered by one or more students snooping on a teacher's desk and sharing what they thought was accurate information with classmates. Information about the airfare (that 'nervous voice' referring to cheap airfare) was provided during the same PowerPoint session where teachers revealed the actual trip was to a local bowling facility.


"These kids" are getting younger as the thread progresses. They started as 14-year-olds, then 13- and 14-year-olds, then 13-year olds, now 12- and 13-year olds... By the time the thread is done, we're going to have a class full of eight-year-old eighth graders!



Truly, it's not bullying. About.com has a good definition:
"Definition of Bullying
Definition:
Bullying is intentional aggressive behavior. It can take the form of physical or verbal harassment and involves an imbalance of power (a group of children can gang up on a victim or someone who is physically bigger or more aggressive can intimidate someone else, for instance).

Bullying behavior can include teasing, insulting someone (particularly about their weight or height, race, sexuality, religion or other personal traits), shoving, hitting, excluding someone, or gossiping about someone.

Bullying can cause a victim to feel upset, afraid, ashamed, embarrassed, and anxious about going to school. It can involve children of any age, including younger elementary grade-schoolers and even kindergarteners. Bullying behavior is frequently repeated unless there is intervention."
They are 8th graders, so mostly 13 year olds in the class, with possibly a few just turned 14 year olds, as the cutoff in that board is Dec. 31st.

Ages aren't important, as whether this happened to younger children, pre/teens or adults, is bad enough.

We will have to agree to disagree about bullying. The repeated aspect is not there over a course of days (although showing it to another class could fit in here), but the imbalance of power and humiliation definitely is.

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Nope, you are wrong.

The entire class was *not* snooping
I've probably read all the news articles and watched all the videos that you have. One article said *a child*, one said two children were the culprits.

A parent interviewed on one video said her child watched the presentation, saw posters, etc. on Friday, then had a long weekend, went back on Tuesday, and was told it was a hoax. This was *after* a few days of hints, brochures, etc. being left lying around.

And yes, Disney is *very* relevant.
Trust me, I am not wrong. See my last post.

This is how it happened:

2 grade 8 classes of approx. 30 kids (so about 60 kids in total) with 5 teachers total (2 main teachers and 3 student teachers), were shown an elaborate video, brochures and photos of a end of year grade 8 trip. The kids were encouraged to all yell out that they were, "Going to Disney World!". All kids were passed brochures and photos of the trip, as to build up enthusiasm.

All of the kids were shown this video, and the teachers were recording them. Kids asked questions about how would they afford it, and teachers said that they got cheap flights, so not to worry about it. Teachers then said that they needed to pay close attention to last PowerPoint slide for important information. The last slide was the slide that revealed the hoax.

One of the student teachers was almost in tears, as she realized that the prank had gone too far, based on the despair shown by the kids. Teachers then showed this video to another class in the school.

The school board media relations director said that they were told that the idea for the hoax came from a snooping student. Nobody knows if this is accurate or not. Could have been made up in order to justify their actions.

At this point, the teachers have been privately disciplined by the school board, and kids have had apologies from principal. Offending teachers are not allowed to speak to the media.


Tiger

Last edited by Tiger926; 02-22-2013 at 06:12 PM.
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:50 PM   #120
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"These kids" are getting younger as the thread progresses. They started as 14-year-olds, then 13- and 14-year-olds, then 13-year olds, now 12- and 13-year olds... By the time the thread is done, we're going to have a class full of eight-year-old eighth graders!

Laugh all you want. I was 12 in 8th grade, 13 at end of school year, a lot of my classmates were 13, none 14.

Truly, it's not bullying. About.com has a good definition:
"Definition of Bullying
Definition:
Bullying is intentional aggressive behavior. It can take the form of physical or verbal harassment and involves an imbalance of power (a group of children can gang up on a victim or someone who is physically bigger or more aggressive can intimidate someone else, for instance).

Bullying behavior can include teasing, insulting someone (particularly about their weight or height, race, sexuality, religion or other personal traits), shoving, hitting, excluding someone, or gossiping about someone.

Bullying can cause a victim to feel upset, afraid, ashamed, embarrassed, and anxious about going to school. It can involve children of any age, including younger elementary grade-schoolers and even kindergarteners. Bullying behavior is frequently repeated unless there is intervention."
Yes, Bullying at it's worst. Children being ganged up on by an adult authority figure.
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