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Old 02-24-2013, 01:03 AM   #196
Tiger926
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Originally Posted by kaytieeldr
Roll your eyes all you want. I'm still trying to be fair, to determine who did what, when.

If the teachers announced the 'trip' Thursday, let the students build their hopes overnight, held an assembly Friday with a presentation making it seem the graduation trip was to WDW, well, that makes no sense. That's the cruel hoax for no reason that many people are claiming*,

If the 'trip' was revealed to students Thursday by snooping classmates just doesn't seem to be the travesty so many are claiming.

*not as cruel as what happened to that football player last fall; not as potentially dangerous as the reported armored and armed person on the MIT campus this morning - both of which I mention only because they were just on my local news
They were told of trip Thursday. What is it going to take to get you to believe that?

Didn't realize we were keeping score of whose cut is bigger? Maybe you should write a letter and send it to those kids and parents,and set them straight on why they are being foolish in being upset and betrayed?

You can have your opinion, but it is not your place to tell those kids how to feel about being punked by trusted adults...

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Old 02-24-2013, 01:19 AM   #197
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Looks like someone could teach the teachers what a lock is and how to use one. If any teacher is leaving things out they don't want looked at, they don't know kids. And hoaxing the kids in retaliation is completely unprofessional.
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Old 02-24-2013, 06:06 AM   #198
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Quote:
They were told of trip Thursday. What is it going to take to get you to believe that?
From the Windsor Star article:

Quote:
Parents at a South Windsor school are expressing outrage after teachers led graduating students to believe they were heading to Disney World for a year-end trip  only to reveal the next day that the kids were the butt of an elaborate joke.
and
Quote:
Topolovec (parent) said he wondered whether he was being overly sensitive as a parent. But he said there was quite a bit of effort put into the prank and that the two teachers and three student teachers in on it allowed it to brew over several days.
<snip>
Topolovec said it was explained to him that the prank was designed to stop one of the students from snooping on a teachers desk, with fake Disney trip information laid out on the Thursday.
It doesn't sound like they were told by the teachers until the Friday assembly. Given the current and earlier information about snooping classmates, the event wasn't the best use of judgment but it wasn't the ongoing travesty so many are making it out to be.
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Old 02-24-2013, 06:32 AM   #199
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I cannot imagine why the timeline matters.

Here's what I see as wrong with this story:

- The teachers in question had such poor classroom management that a child or children were apparently snooping, yet the teachers had no other manner of determining who to punish. That means they were unaware of the physical presence of kids in their classroom. This isn't a matter of wandering eyes-- in order to snoop in the teacher's desk, your physical presence must be at the teacher's desk. Yet the teacher was unaware of that physical presence?? That makes absolutely no sense to me. Exactly where was the teacher when that snooping was happening? The cardinal rule of teaching: you do NOT leave kids unattended.

- Instead of tightening up that classroom management and actually knowing where their students were, the teachers chose to retailiate against an entire group of 14 year olds, most of whom were not involved in the snooping. Retailiation is not discipline. Discipline is proportional to the offense, yet most of these kids had committed no offense. Discipline is constructive-- it builds relationships. This destroyed relationships.

- This was an abuse of power. The very nature of the relationship between student and teacher is one where (hopefully) the teacher is in charge. As such, there's a level of trust that needs to develop between the student and the teacher. When I tell my students that they need to know something, things generally work better if they believe me. Likewise, as the figure of authority in the room, there are times when I NEED them to do exactly as I say-- for example, when the fire alarm goes off. I need them to trust in my judgement, and to obey because they know I'm acting in their best interests. That trust in the authority of all teachers is erroded when the kids realize that some teachers do NOT act in their best interest.

- That retailiation involved making those 14 year olds look like fools in front of other kids-- something I would punish if I caught one kid doing it to another. And it involved raising, then lowering, the hopes of a group of kids. You know what that teaches?? Cynicism, something that we already have far too much of and don't need in a group of 14 year olds. And, once taught, it can't be untaught.

- That retailiation was simply mean. It raised the hopes of a bunch of kids that they would receive something some had never dreamed was within their grasp, then taking it away. Look at how involved we at the Disboards are in our trips, when many of us have been there multiple times. To dangle a trip like this in front of kids, then remove it, is simply mean. I don't care how long they dangled it. The timeline doesn't make it any less a cruel prank, regardless of what happened when. It was mean. I don't tolerate meanness from my students, and I would most certainly not tolerate it from the teachers of my kids.

- In an era when teachers are constantly under the gun, expected to teach MORE MORE MORE with LESS LESS LESS, classroom time was taken (from a class where classroom management was already an issue) with the sole purpose of retailation against a group of kids.

- These adults are not professionals. As a fellow teacher, I'm embarassed to think that anyone who dislikes kids to this extent could call himself a teacher. I would not want to work with these people, and I would not want my kids taught by them. Aside from the obvious classroom management issues, aside from the lack of care for time spent on academics, this has all the hallmarks of a frat boy prank. When the teachers of my kids act in loco parentis, I am trusting that they'll take care of my kids, nurture and educate them as I would, and as I do with the kids I teach. . I wouldn't stoop this low with anyone, much less one of the kids in my charge.

I'm hoping that in very short order, the new teachers of those kids will somehow manage to salvage the school year for those kids. That they'll get someone who knows how to manage a classroom, has his priorities in the right places, and actually likes the kids he teaches.
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Last edited by Aliceacc; 02-24-2013 at 07:08 AM.
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Old 02-24-2013, 07:12 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by Tiger926 View Post
No, it's not unclear at all: http://blogs.windsorstar.com/2013/02...liation-tears/

Article clearly says that teachers led students to believe on Thursday that they were going to Disney, only to reveal the next day, Friday, through their elaborate presentation, that the Disney trip was a hoax.

No one said every kid was traumatized, but as a teacher, I believe that just one student being traumatized, is enough.

Tiger
Yes, it's unclear. From the article you linked...
Quote:
Roseland public school’s graduating students were told last Thursday that they were in for a spectacular year-end field trip to Disney World in Orlando, Fla.
Quote:
Topolovec said it was explained to him that the prank was designed to stop one of the students from snooping on a teacher’s desk, with fake Disney trip information laid out on the Thursday.
. So were the kids told Thursday or did they read the fake information on Thursday?

From another article...
Quote:
Topolovec was told the prank was devised to stop one student from snooping on a teacher’s desk. The fake evidence of the Disney trip was apparently planted for him to discover in advance of the big presentation to both classes the following day.
http://blogs.windsorstar.com/2013/02...seland-school/
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Old 02-24-2013, 07:19 AM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aliceacc
I cannot imagine why the timeline matters.

Here's what I see as wrong with this story:

- The teachers in question had such poor classroom management that a child or children were apparently snooping, yet the teachers had no other manner of determining who to punish. That means they were unaware of the physical presence of kids in their classroom. This isn't a matter of wandering eyes-- in order to snoop in the teacher's desk, your physical presence must be at the teacher's desk. Yet the teacher was unaware of that physical presence?? That makes absolutely no sense to me. Exactly where was the teacher when that snooping was happening? The cardinal rule of teaching: you do NOT leave kids unattended.

- Instead of tightening up that classroom management and actually knowing where their students were, the teachers chose to retailiate against an entire group of 14 year olds, most of whom were not involved in the snooping. Retailiation is not discipline. Discipline is proportional to the offense, yet most of these kids had committed no offense. Discipline is constructive-- it builds relationships. This destroyed relationships.

- That retailiation involved making those 14 year olds look like fools in front of other kids-- something I would punish if I caught one kid doing it to another. And it involved raising, then lowering, the hopes of a group of kids. You know what that teaches?? Cynicism, something that we already have far too much of and don't need in a group of 14 year olds. And, once taught, it can't be untaught.

- That retailiation was simply mean. It raised the hopes of a bunch of kids that they would receive something some had never dreamed was within their grasp, then taking it away. Look at how involved we at the Disboards are in our trips, when many of us have been there multiple times. To dangle a trip like this in front of kids, then remove it, is simply mean. I don't care how long they dangled it. The timeline doesn't make it any less a cruel prank, regardless of what happened when. It was mean. I don't tolerate meanness from my students, and I would most certainly not tolerate it from the teachers of my kids.

- In an era when teachers are constantly under the gun, expected to teach MORE MORE MORE with LESS LESS LESS, classroom time was taken (from a class where classroom management was already an issue) with the sole purpose of retailation against a group of kids.

- These adults are not professionals. As a fellow teacher, I'm embarassed to think that anyone who dislikes kids to this extent could call himself a teacher. I would not want to work with these people, and I would not want my kids taught by them. Aside from the obvious classroom management issues, aside from the lack of care for time spent on academics, this has all the hallmarks of a frat boy prank. When the teachers of my kids act in loco parentis, I am trusting that they'll take care of my kids, nurture and educate them as I would, and as I do with the kids I teach. . I wouldn't stoop this low with anyone, much less one of the kids in my charge.

I'm hoping that in very short order, the new teachers of those kids will somehow manage to salvage the school year for those kids. That they'll get someone who knows how to manage a classroom, has his priorities in the right places, and actually likes the kids he teaches.
Excellent post!

I am pretty certain, that the teachers will still be teaching the students. It is very difficult to even suspend teachers in Ontario, much less administratively transfer or fire. The teacher unions are the most powerful in the province...a teacher who was fired for being a sexual predator has the union's backing to return to the classroom, so based on past precedence, I am pretty certain they will remain. But, stranger things have happened, so more info to come on this story, I am sure...

As for the timeline, I am done discussing that, as it is being used by some as a means of justifying why the students shouldn't feel embarrassed. Talk about missing the point...

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Old 02-24-2013, 07:21 AM   #202
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Easy for you to say, *done and over*, but it's not by a long shot! I also read the various articles from the Windsor Star, and you purposely picked the *one* paragraph, from the *one* parent that supported your way of thinking.
Of course it's "done and over". The only reason it's still going on is because we're discussing it. The apologies have been issued, the teachers have been punished.

Quote:
For the ones on here laughing, I really feel sorry for your attitudes. I just told my dh, and he was dumb founded. He said, "this is one of the most cruel things I've heard from a supposedly person in authority over children."
Guess you have no empathy for other's children, just wonder if you would have even taken up for your own.
Who is on here laughing?
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Old 02-24-2013, 07:26 AM   #203
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I cannot imagine why the timeline matters.
Because some of us parents wouldn't get ourselves all up in arms over something like this, that is why.
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Old 02-24-2013, 07:35 AM   #204
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Because some of us parents wouldn't get ourselves all up in arms over something like this, that is why.
A lot of us who are professional educators would. Though, again, in my book, the timeline is immaterial. There are so many other problems with what has been reported about what happened in that classroom.

And, as one parent to another, I've got to ask: are these the types of teachers you WANT teaching YOUR kids?? If it were possible, would you request that your child be put into this person's class next year?
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Old 02-24-2013, 07:44 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by sam_gordon View Post
Of course it's "done and over". The only reason it's still going on is because we're discussing it. The apologies have been issued, the teachers have been punished.


Who is on here laughing?
What was the punishment?
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Old 02-24-2013, 07:49 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by sam_gordon
Of course it's "done and over". The only reason it's still going on is because we're discussing it. The apologies have been issued, the teachers have been punished.

Who is on here laughing?
So, if the kids are still feeling humiliated next week, we can pass along to them that this should have been done and over with, according to some arbitrary timeline of strangers on a message board.

How dare they or the parents still feel embarrassed or humiliated for being punked by their teachers...How about their teaching colleagues at the school, administrators, etc?

And, just to remind you, there is a big world outside the DIS. Discussing it on here has no relevance to the actual situation. That is a very insular way of thinking...

It is far from over...trust issues do not go away overnight...

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Old 02-24-2013, 07:51 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by Jennasis

What was the punishment?
The teachers received private disciplinary action, which is being kept silent, at this time.

No word yet on what the discipline was (as professionals, we are disciplined and not punished).

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Old 02-24-2013, 07:58 AM   #208
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So, if the kids are still feeling humiliated next week, we can pass along to them that this should have been done and over with, according to some arbitrary timeline of strangers on a message board.
And will ANYTHING stop the kids from feeling humiliated?

Quote:
How dare they or the parents still feel embarrassed or humiliated for being punked by their teachers...How about their teaching colleagues at the school, administrators, etc?

And, just to remind you, there is a big world outside the DIS. Discussing it on here has no relevance to the actual situation. That is a very insular way of thinking...

It is far from over...trust issues do not go away overnight...

Tiger
I read a couple articles that had parents who had been outspoken saying they're just trying to return to normal. IIRC, the parent of the twins (Stewart?) said her kids came home Thursday "normal".
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Old 02-24-2013, 07:58 AM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger926
As for the timeline, I am done discussing that, as it is being used by some as a means of justifying why the students shouldn't feel embarrassed. Talk about missing the point...
Huh? No, I'm (and I think Sam) just trying to figure out exactly who did exactly what and when.

Based on what you indicate is the most reliable source, and piecing together information Sam and I have found there:
A teacher left brochures/permission slips on/at(/in?) her desk about a trip to Walt Disney World Thursday, to : trap? catch ?teach a lesson to? a snooping student
The student snooper Thursday and shared the information with classmates (who went home excited but seemingly didn't share the information at home because it wasn't official?)
Eighth grade assembly spent a total of thirty minutes out of the entire academic year on a fake presentation. The only possible humiliating part of the entire event was the recording being shown to another class (although at least one article describes it as being watched by a student teacher in another room while occurring, and being seen by some students).
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Old 02-24-2013, 08:00 AM   #210
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A lot of us who are professional educators would. Though, again, in my book, the timeline is immaterial. There are so many other problems with what has been reported about what happened in that classroom.

And, as one parent to another, I've got to ask: are these the types of teachers you WANT teaching YOUR kids?? If it were possible, would you request that your child be put into this person's class next year?
The timeline matters to some of us because if the teachers "punked" the students for 30 minutes to an hour, that's one thing. If they did so over a matter of days, that's something different.

As far as requesting these teachers, I don't request teachers. If I did, I'd need to look at the teachers entire body of work. I would NOT request for my child to be taken out of one of these teachers classroom based on this single event.
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