Tell me how you would feel....

[mad madam mim78]

Originally Posted by Disney Doll

Not for anything but somewhere in the thread the OP posted that Dad is alone while Mom works full time and goes to the casino or whatever occasionally.

It's not like Mom is at his bedside every waking moment. Now I realize that one of them has to work and since Dad is probably unable to, that falls to Mom.

So either Dad isn't as ill as everyone here is assuming he is, or Mom is taking a pretty big risk every day, unless she has arranged for someone else to stay with Dad.

So maybe brother should call Mom's bluff and say "OK, I'll take Dad on such-and-such weekend" and see what happens. Maybe Dad would enjoy it. Maybe he wouldn't. But it would brother the basis for what to do moving forward. If Dad enjoye dit he coudl do it again. If Dad didn't enjoy he would then have the ability to say to Mom "We tried that remember, and it didn't work out. So we have to figure out a different way for me to spend time with Dad".

Yeah my mom isn't changing diapers or anything. He can get around by himself. He can feed himself. He is just home ridden. He gets confused sometimes. He could be talking to be about one of the grand kids one minute and the next minute I could mention that same grand kid and him say "who's that?" Sometimes I think he doesn't know who I am. He smiles and calls me baby but if I asked him what my name was there's a good chance he wouldn't know.

My dad is pretty capable. He just can't contribute to anything except a mess. My mom cares for the house. Works. Pays bills. Stuff she resents. My thoughts are "now could you not see this coming marrying a man 20 years older?" Like basically.....she signed up for this. Someday he was going to be 75 and she was going to be 55. I personally think my mom is dealing with a lot of bad karma. I'm not going down with her.

[Kellydelly]

Originally Posted by mad madam mim78

My dad is pretty capable. He just can't contribute to anything except a mess. My mom cares for the house. Works. Pays bills. Stuff she resents. My thoughts are "now could you not see this coming marrying a man 20 years older?" Like basically.....she signed up for this. Someday he was going to be 75 and she was going to be 55. I personally think my mom is dealing with a lot of bad karma. I'm not going down with her.

That sounds so horrible but I can totally relate .

[Kellydelly]

Originally Posted by bellebud

I'm very sorry for your unresolved feelings with your dad. It must be hard.

But I honestly find it surprising that you're upset that his &$%^# 4th wife was the only one w/ him when he passed. Didn't he choose this person to be his wife? Didn't he choose to not be very involved with his children? I'm truly stumped why you're upset.

You say he was self-absorbed and was hardly there for his 7 children (that's a lot of children to have when you don't really want to be a father), but yet you feel so badly about you not being there for him.

I think you're upset deep down for the father you never had, not for the father you couldn't see for the last 2 years of his life. There were many, many years before those last 2 years to see him and for him to see you... if efforts weren't made then, why should it be so important to be made only at the end?

I don't mean to pick on your post, but I'd hate for it to make the OP to feel like if she doesn't do more now for her dad, she's somehow at fault and should feel bad.

Of course you have your right to your feelings, and no one can say anyone else is right or wrong in how they feel, but you're feeling guilty for something you truly shouldn't.

OP - your parents sound like they didn't make the basic relationship with you that every child wants with their parents (and god, you'd hope every parent wants with their child) . That is on them, not on you. Do whatever you feel you need to, and I honestly hope for you that you don't feel guilty for anything.

What I meant by the *****y wife thing was that he spent his golden years (he was 83) with a person who was about as loving as he was, which wasn't very . She actually sent our dad's ashes up to us COD. Who does that???? Anyway, I have a ton of "Daddy" issues, you are right. I made an effort to visit him when I could, sent holiday gifts, called him, etc. Just the last two years I didn't get a chance to visit him. I could never resolve my feelings of abandonment before it was too late, not even sure it is possible. So life goes on. I do wish I had seen him recently, though (He just passed in late November). So just saying, do what you need to do, while you still have a chance .

[The Mystery Machine]

Originally Posted by mad madam mim78

Yeah my mom isn't changing diapers or anything. He can get around by himself. He can feed himself. He is just home ridden. He gets confused sometimes. He could be talking to be about one of the grand kids one minute and the next minute I could mention that same grand kid and him say "who's that?" Sometimes I think he doesn't know who I am. He smiles and calls me baby but if I asked him what my name was there's a good chance he wouldn't know.

My dad is pretty capable. He just can't contribute to anything except a mess. My mom cares for the house. Works. Pays bills. Stuff she resents. My thoughts are "now could you not see this coming marrying a man 20 years older?" Like basically.....she signed up for this. Someday he was going to be 75 and she was going to be 55. I personally think my mom is dealing with a lot of bad karma. I'm not going down with her.

I don't think people "sign up" for long term illness, that is harsh. Stuff happens.

Secondly, dementia or alzheimer's is not a static condition. There will be bad days and good days.

Your mom's days of caregiving for your father will change. He is going to more than likely end up in a nursing home in the later stages.

I do understand you have made your peace with the family dynamic and that is a good thing.

Your brother has to make his own peace with the dynamic. This is not something YOU can fix.

[Nancyg56]

Originally Posted by mad madam mim78

Yeah my mom isn't changing diapers or anything. He can get around by himself. He can feed himself. He is just home ridden. He gets confused sometimes. He could be talking to be about one of the grand kids one minute and the next minute I could mention that same grand kid and him say "who's that?" Sometimes I think he doesn't know who I am. He smiles and calls me baby but if I asked him what my name was there's a good chance he wouldn't know.

My dad is pretty capable. He just can't contribute to anything except a mess. My mom cares for the house. Works. Pays bills. Stuff she resents. My thoughts are "now could you not see this coming marrying a man 20 years older?" Like basically.....she signed up for this. Someday he was going to be 75 and she was going to be 55. I personally think my mom is dealing with a lot of bad karma. I'm not going down with her.

Wow. You Mom has a full plate here. I am not going to say that your parents made stellar decisions when it came to nurturing you and your brother and if you think they are getting what they deserve in life, that is your right.

I do not think you need to step in or to help them. I don't think you owe either one anything. I am struggling with your bitterness though. You Mom is doing this all by herself and it is reasonable that she would resent it, I doubt anyone would thrilled to be in her shoes. Thin abut her life right now. She goes to work, she cares for the home, she cares for a man who is going to forget who she is, so she is experiencing the death of her husband. She also needs to take care of all the mundane chores and her partner is not there for her any longer, except to make a mess.

I have been in her shoes, except my children were babies. My husband was not suffering from dementia but he certainly was not capable of assisting me in anything. I was exhausted. I was bitter. I was alone. His parents had their reasons for avoiding him but honestly, they could have stepped in a little. Their kindness would have gone a long way. They also thought that I "signed on" so there was no offer. I worked, cared for my three kids and my home and for him. I could not even determine what I needed, I was that tired. I ran on auto pilot. I bet that is where your mom is now.

Here is the thing. Your parents have taught you how to treat them by their treatment of you. If you are comfortable with the way your relationships is then let the rest go. But stop trying to minimize what your mom is going through in order to validate your decision.

Your brother needs to decide how he wants to handle this as well. If he really wants to see your Dad he needs to go. Your dad is home 24 hours a day so he really does not need to schedule an appointment to make sure he is there. He also needs to stop using your mother as a reason why he is not seeing his dad. She is not the reason but she sure is a good excuse.

Again, I don't think either of you are wrong if you choose to remain distant but you both need to own that decision. I also think you both should decide what you need in the even that your Dad passes before you resolve whatever conflict yo have. There is no going back after that and believe me, that can be devastating. My sil never got over it when Donald died. It would have been better for her to just go and visit but she was "busy".

Every family has issues, yours is not exception.

[bellebud]

Originally Posted by mad madam mim78

This is how I'm feeling right now. I think she's mad and holding a grudge. They aren't her children (in fact they are close to the same age since my dad married 20 year younger woman) and she has no moral obligations to them because honestly when my dad dies she will probably never hear from them again. She's mad at me because I'm trying to help my brother so she looks at me like a traitor. She is annoyed that I keep bringing up the fact they are my blood family. Whether she likes it or not its true.

It also doesn't help that I have to talk to my brother about my crazy *** mom. How embarrassing.

out of curiosity, how old was your brother when his parents divorced (is that what happened?) How close did your dad remain to his first children? Were you raised with them in some say, even weekends? Or was it like 2 separate families?

Originally Posted by Kellydelly

What I meant by the *****y wife thing was that he spent his golden years (he was 83) with a person who was about as loving as he was, which wasn't very . She actually sent our dad's ashes up to us COD. Who does that???? Anyway, I have a ton of "Daddy" issues, you are right. I made an effort to visit him when I could, sent holiday gifts, called him, etc. Just the last two years I didn't get a chance to visit him. I could never resolve my feelings of abandonment before it was too late, not even sure it is possible. So life goes on. I do wish I had seen him recently, though (He just passed in late November). So just saying, do what you need to do, while you still have a chance .

I have to guess that your dad was comfortable with someone who was similar to him (not very loving in the way most people are). Don't feel badly about that. He set his life up just the way he wanted, the way he was most happy. You may have had (and still have) a hard time accepting just how different he was from you. You're obviously a loving person who maintains her relationships... he was not, and that was how he was comfortable in life. We're all wired differently. I truly hope you can work out your daddy issues and guilt. You have no reason to feel one bit of guilt. Just from what you wrote, you did much more than the average person would have in your shoes.

[mad madam mim78]

Originally Posted by bellebud

out of curiosity, how old was your brother when his parents divorced (is that what happened?) How close did your dad remain to his first children? Were you raised with them in some say, even weekends? Or was it like 2 separate families?




I have to guess that your dad was comfortable with someone who was similar to him (not very loving in the way most people are). Don't feel badly about that. He set his life up just the way he wanted, the way he was most happy. You may have had (and still have) a hard time accepting just how different he was from you. You're obviously a loving person who maintains her relationships... he was not, and that was how he was comfortable in life. We're all wired differently. I truly hope you can work out your daddy issues and guilt. You have no reason to feel one bit of guilt. Just from what you wrote, you did much more than the average person would have in your shoes.

I think my brother was like 15-16 when the divorce happened so my mom was like 21-22 when they got together. I really wish I knew more of the story. I'm not 100% sure of how my parents got together. Considering that I've never been told how they met and considering my mother was pregnant with me when they married I will assume she might have been a hussy or a homewrecker. Awesome.

I'd say we were raised separate but my half brother and sister seemed to be friendly with my mom. I really wish I knew things. I have hung out and talked with my dads ex-wife and I really think she's a good woman. She likes me a lot and I like her. My mom frickin HATES that.

[bellebud]

Originally Posted by mad madam mim78

I think my brother was like 15-16 when the divorce happened so my mom was like 21-22 when they got together. I really wish I knew more of the story. I'm not 100% sure of how my parents got together. Considering that I've never been told how they met and considering my mother was pregnant with me when they married I will assume she might have been a hussy or a homewrecker. Awesome.

I'd say we were raised separate but my half brother and sister seemed to be friendly with my mom. I really wish I knew things. I have hung out and talked with my dads ex-wife and I really think she's a good woman. She likes me a lot and I like her. My mom frickin HATES that.

I had a feeling it was like that. I'd guess your half brother and sister felt abandoned by their father, and it was probably somewhat true. When your dad married your mom (whether he was with your mom while still married or not), he had a full plate right away (new wife, new baby). If he and your mom didn't make a huge effort to include his other children, I can only feel very sorry for them for losing their own family unit, and from the sidelines, watching their dad create a whole new family. From the relationships as you describe them, I'm guessing this is the case.

But of course your brother still loves his dad, even with their limited relationship. Your mom may feel overwhelmed, but if your mom and dad have set up this sideline relationship with his son over all these years, your mom has no right to expect your brother to now take on a bigger relationship with his dad (taking him for a weekend). There were lots and lots of years for your mom and dad to do things with your brother while dad was healthy. If they had cultivated that relationship, I'd bet things would be different now. It's 100% the parents responsibility to cultivate the relationship with the kids. And sometimes when that relationship is reflected back to the parent, they're not happy with what they see. But that's their burden, not the kids.

Of course I'm assuming lots of things here, but this is all very familiar to me.

[mad madam mim78]

Originally Posted by bellebud

I had a feeling it was like that. I'd guess your half brother and sister felt abandoned by their father, and it was probably somewhat true. When your dad married your mom (whether he was with your mom while still married or not), he had a full plate right away (new wife, new baby). If he and your mom didn't make a huge effort to include his other children, I can only feel very sorry for them for losing their own family unit, and from the sidelines, watching their dad create a whole new family. From the relationships as you describe them, I'm guessing this is the case.

But of course your brother still loves his dad, even with their limited relationship. Your mom may feel overwhelmed, but if your mom and dad have set up this sideline relationship with his son over all these years, your mom has no right to expect your brother to now take on a bigger relationship with his dad (taking him for a weekend). There were lots and lots of years for your mom and dad to do things with your brother while dad was healthy. If they had cultivated that relationship, I'd bet things would be different now. It's 100% the parents responsibility to cultivate the relationship with the kids. And sometimes when that relationship is reflected back to the parent, they're not happy with what they see. But that's their burden, not the kids.

Of course I'm assuming lots of things here, but this is all very familiar to me.

Yeah I totally get my brothers side. That's why I feel like I need to stick up for him a little because she is MY mother. You'd think I'd have some ability to reason with her but she is unreasonable even with me. Imagine how unreasonable she is with people she considers a thorn in her side. This is all just a sad situation. I feel bad for my brother. He just wants to see dad. Knowing the relationship we've all had with dad a visit is all we can contribute because the relationship isn't worth more than that. If we are forced to go the extra mile it probably won't happen. Just wish my mom wouldn't interfere with the father/son dynamic. That is NONE of her business.

[bellebud]

Originally Posted by mad madam mim78

Yeah I totally get my brothers side. That's why I feel like I need to stick up for him a little because she is MY mother. You'd think I'd have some ability to reason with her but she is unreasonable even with me. Imagine how unreasonable she is with people she considers a thorn in her side. This is all just a sad situation. I feel bad for my brother. He just wants to see dad. Knowing the relationship we've all had with dad a visit is all we can contribute because the relationship isn't worth more than that. If we are forced to go the extra mile it probably won't happen. Just wish my mom wouldn't interfere with the father/son dynamic. That is NONE of her business.

you seem like a really sweet person, I'm sorry for the family dynamics. Just letting your brother know you understand where he's coming from will probably help him emotionally. Personally, I'd help him get the visit in with your dad. Why can't he just go over when your mom is at work? Can you just go over with him then?

[mad madam mim78]

Originally Posted by bellebud

you seem like a really sweet person, I'm sorry for the family dynamics. Just letting your brother know you understand where he's coming from will probably help him emotionally. Personally, I'd help him get the visit in with your dad. Why can't he just go over when your mom is at work? Can you just go over with him then?

The thought has crossed my mind. Haha. I'm pretty sure my moms head would explode. I don't want to hurt her. I just want her to grow a conscience.

She's also let it slip that she doesn't trust him and thinks he's rifling through papers and snooping around trying to find some of dads old trinkets thinking he's going to take stuff.

I can tell you now my dad has squat. I'm pretty sure we will all be empty handed in the end. My mom acts like he's after the "estate". Gimmie a break.

Even if he was taking things I wouldn't blame him. It's not like my mom is going to be nice and pass down anything to them. If he wants some of dads momentos he would have to take them. Poor guy.

[bellebud]

Originally Posted by mad madam mim78

The thought has crossed my mind. Haha. I'm pretty sure my moms head would explode. I don't want to hurt her. I just want her to grow a conscience.

She's also let it slip that she doesn't trust him and thinks he's rifling through papers and snooping around trying to find some of dads old trinkets thinking he's going to take stuff.

I can tell you now my dad has squat. I'm pretty sure we will all be empty handed in the end. My mom acts like he's after the "estate". Gimmie a break.

Even if he was taking things I wouldn't blame him. It's not like my mom is going to be nice and pass down anything to them. If he wants some of dads momentos he would have to take them. Poor guy.

yes, I know the scenario. It's a shame your dad never gave each kid a little 'something'... it could be anything. An old watch, a favorite necktie, one of his tools if he was a craftsman, a fishing rod... anything. He still possibly could, but it sounds like he might not anyway, even if he understood. Or your mom might have a problem with him doing so. It's a very sad situation for your half sibs, and I'm sorry for you that you're in the middle.

[mad madam mim78]

Originally Posted by bellebud

yes, I know the scenario. It's a shame your dad never gave each kid a little 'something'... it could be anything. An old watch, a favorite necktie, one of his tools if he was a craftsman, a fishing rod... anything. He still possibly could, but it sounds like he might not anyway, even if he understood. Or your mom might have a problem with him doing so. It's a very sad situation for your half sibs, and I'm sorry for you that you're in the middle.

Thanks. I appreciate the understanding and advice. Getting old sucks.