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Old 02-21-2013, 11:07 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by LiveYourLife View Post
I absolutely agree with those who said the reaction should have been "Thank you, situation under control and have a good night" to the SWA Gate Agent, and you move along. However, Mom was juggling hand grenades. She lost her cool, and broke down. We've all been in the OP's shoes at one time or another, reached our limit, and broken down. It doesn't make you weak, it makes you human.
YES! All these armchair quarterbacks trying to chastise the OP for admitting to crying. She didn't feel good about crying, but sometimes it just happens--especially as described above. Add in post-partum/PMS/perimenopause/untreated depression/feeling vulnerable/anything really! and you sometimes cry even when you don't want to.

At the age of 52, after 3 kids, full time work and juggling life, if I were chastised for all the times I broke down in tears that's all you guys would do! She obviously feels bad, do you really think telling her she shouldn't have cried is gonna do any good? Some people are criers, others are not. I have gone head to head with the best of them to stand up for myself, but sometimes the tears come. It doesn't mean I am a door mat, or in histrionics or out of control. It is just what I do.

Give her a break!
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:14 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by hellow View Post
YES! All these armchair quarterbacks trying to chastise the OP for admitting to crying. She didn't feel good about crying, but sometimes it just happens--especially as described above. Add in post-partum/PMS/perimenopause/untreated depression/feeling vulnerable/anything really! and you sometimes cry even when you don't want to.

At the age of 52, after 3 kids, full time work and juggling life, if I were chastised for all the times I broke down in tears that's all you guys would do! She obviously feels bad, do you really think telling her she shouldn't have cried is gonna do any good? Some people are criers, others are not. I have gone head to head with the best of them to stand up for myself, but sometimes the tears come. It doesn't mean I am a door mat, or in histrionics or out of control. It is just what I do.

Give her a break!
It's a good thing that her husband was able to control his emotions and deal with the situation.
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:16 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by indimom View Post
Eh, even the tears make sense to me.

I would have been stressed under the circumstances. I find airports and travel stressful anyway. Add four kids and a pile of luggage to worry about. A nasty dirty diaper that probably required a change of clothes and a near bathing in a public bathroom. Being forced to leave a few of the kids and the pile of luggage in order to deal with that somewhat lengthy cleanup.

And even knowing that my kids could handle 5-10 minutes sitting outside a bathroom in a public place, I would still have been feeling guilty about leaving them (it's what mom's do best, feel guilty about everything)...

I would have been more than a little stressed at that point. To then walk out of the bathroom and into a stranger who is essentially telling me I'm a sucky mom would probably have been the straw that broke the camels back.

Feel Better, OP. You may even laugh about this someday....
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I hope you feel better already OP! ~Take care~
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:17 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by Colleen27 View Post
I think much of that is unique to NYC. I've certainly never seen it. I'm not a super frequent traveler but I go in/out of Detroit airport a few times a year and have been for the last 5-6 years, usually to other mid-sized international airports like MCO or BWI. I've never seen a guard armed with anything more than a handgun, and going for my wallet (I don't carry a purse, so my ID/money/ticket is always in my back pocket under my coat) has never raised so much as an eyebrow much less a red flag. And I'm fairly sure my kids have kept an eye on the bags a time or two, certainly when I was changing the youngest and probably for less important distractions like grabbing a drink before boarding. That never drew any attention either.

I doubt I'd fly as often as I do if taking one kid to the bathroom while leaving the others sitting with the bags was enough to cause a security alert or if I could expect armed guards watching me suspiciously when I go for my wallet at the TSA checkpoint. That just wouldn't be worth the stress.
It is NOT unique to NYC. IN May, September, December and January, we encountered bomb sniffing dogs in Santa Anna airport leaving Disney. In talking to one of the guards in May he said they were now in ALL airport at varing times to combat various problems.

Last month when my sister was flying out of the Indianoplois airport she texted me a picture of the dogs and armed guards in that airport. What is funny is after she sent me the picture the dogs alerted on her carryon bag. Seems my sisters home made Fabreeze caught the dogs attention and she got to spend an hour in the security office explaining herself.

I have also seen the dogs and armed guards in the Portland airport and SeaTac airport in the last year.
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:22 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by allison443 View Post
It's a good thing that her husband was able to control his emotions and deal with the situation.
Of course he could, all he had to do was park the car!
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:49 PM   #126
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All this disdain for someone who cries is just weird to me. Having worked with men and women for over 25 years and been in a lot of stressful situations, I see people cry all the time. I don't think of it as a weakness. I have traveled with groups of mothers and daughters, where the mother broke down, and the girls learned that stress can put us over the edge sometimes. It doesn't teach them to be door mats.

With such negative remarks about the simple act of crying, it is no wonder that there is still such a stigma on mental illnesses. If you think so negatively of someone just because she broke down and cried, what do you think of someone who is experiencing major depressive disorder (very common)? Someone going through MDD can start crying because there is no milk in the frig, and go downhill from there all day. The kids I've seen who live with someone with chronic MDD learn to be empathetic towards others, not excessively critical. Maybe some of us could learn from that.
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Old 02-22-2013, 12:13 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by indygirl99 View Post
It is NOT unique to NYC. IN May, September, December and January, we encountered bomb sniffing dogs in Santa Anna airport leaving Disney. In talking to one of the guards in May he said they were now in ALL airport at varing times to combat various problems.

Last month when my sister was flying out of the Indianoplois airport she texted me a picture of the dogs and armed guards in that airport. What is funny is after she sent me the picture the dogs alerted on her carryon bag. Seems my sisters home made Fabreeze caught the dogs attention and she got to spend an hour in the security office explaining herself.

I have also seen the dogs and armed guards in the Portland airport and SeaTac airport in the last year.
Oh! You just reminded me, a friend & I had our own bomb dog sniffing incident, which is how I know how quickly and why they respond (here in NYC) to suspicious incidences. I was able to find the post.
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Also, as for the SUV at the curb. One time, a friend & I were in an unmarked, commercial van. We had to pick up friends at a famous landmark here. We hopped out of the van, in a "No Standing" zone, and waited at the curb so our friends could spot us. Our friends finally showed up. We got to chatting off on the side, instead of getting right in the van. In the incredibly short time we were there , two police officers showed up with a bomb sniffing dog, to check out the van at the curb. We had to prove it was our van & why we were there. When something unusual happens, it does get noticed.
Here is the link to the original post with the time & date stamp. http://www.disboards.com/showpost.ph...2&postcount=26
I posted about it here three years ago. As brilliant as I am, I didn't make up something as a PP accused me of, just to be able to pull up the post three years later for another thread. Even I'm not that brilliant!
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Old 02-22-2013, 12:28 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by Imzadi View Post
I think the majority of the people posting on this thread, as well as the OP, are missing the point that this happened in an AIRPORT. What may be fine, leaving an 11 year old in charge, leaving kids unattended for a few moments with luggage, in any other situation is incorrect in an AIRPORT.

The OP restated the what the gate agent for Southwest Airlines stated was PRECISELY what the problem was:

1. She left three children by themselves
2. She left three children by themselves with luggage
3. She left luggage essentially unattended

The SW agent also states:
"She called the husband AND security would be called next."

The SW agent followed proper procedure for an airport. If this was done in New York's JFK airport, LaGuardia or at Newark, security would probably have automatically detained the children as the children may have been abandoned overnite or completely, with some belongings to fend for themselves, and probably the whole family would have missed their flight until it was all sorted out IF the parents really did show up again.

SECONDLY, airport police with a bomb sniffing dog would have been called over to ensure that the children weren't just left with the unattended luggage as a decoy for a bomb placed in the luggage. Depending on the police officer, he may be annoyed that the dog was pulled away from sniffing for actual threats, or he may have the patience & understanding that some people are still so blissfully naive as to dangers of terrorism in airports, proven terrorist target zones.

I was at Laguardia once. I had my money & ID in a little fanny pack, worn at the back of my waist under my coat. I was standing at the end of a long line and reached under my coat to the small of my back to pull the fanny pack around to my front to take out my ID. It got caught at my hip. I turned to look at it and out of the corner of my eye, I saw that a National Guard soldier with an AK47, ready to be lifted & aimed, was walking toward me. The look on his face meant business. He had seen me reach under my coat for something concealed, and it might have been a gun. When he saw it was just my fanny pack & how shocked I was, he just turned & backed away. But I learned just how serious airport security is. And I am grateful for their watchful eyes & ears.

OP, YOUR actions, as unwitting and innocent as they would have been anywhere else, were potential problems in THIS situation, well beyond a "poopy diaper" and being yelled at in a way you weren't used to.

My suggestion to you is to read the book, Emotional Intelligence. As other people have stated, your reaction to the event was extreme for the situation. It is a book with concepts that could help you, especially as you have kids and need to roll model emotionally handling situations better and putting them into perspective. That a 5 minute situation can ruin a WHOLE vacation (of days???) says a lot. You need to learn techniques for some reframes, boundaries, some changes in perspective, and gaining control of your emotions.
What an odd (and ridiculous) idea, that airports do not allow older children to watch a suitcase for a few minutes! Where did you even get such a notion?

Have you ever traveled with children? EVER been told such a thing by official airport personnel?

We fly a lot. We flew in early October 2001. We were flying (though Atlanta) the day Atlanta was shut down when someone ran through security that same fall. We flew out of Frankfurt, Germany only days after American servicemen were shot and killed at the curb of the airport. We have flown through New York a few times.

Yes, I have seen full military style guns as you picture in airports from time to time. I recall being surprised the first few times I saw them (in Puerto Vallarta Mexico and in Madrid Spain in the 80s, as a child myself) but see them often enough now to no longer think much of it.

Never once, in all that time, has there EVER been any indication that I cannot leave my kids standing or sitting by luggage while I run in the restroom or off to buy a snack or to talk to the gate agent or whatever. Never.

Heck, if they can fly the entire way alone at 12, how can they not sit by a suitcase for 5 minutes at 11?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellow View Post
YES! All these armchair quarterbacks trying to chastise the OP for admitting to crying. She didn't feel good about crying, but sometimes it just happens--especially as described above. Add in post-partum/PMS/perimenopause/untreated depression/feeling vulnerable/anything really! and you sometimes cry even when you don't want to.

At the age of 52, after 3 kids, full time work and juggling life, if I were chastised for all the times I broke down in tears that's all you guys would do! She obviously feels bad, do you really think telling her she shouldn't have cried is gonna do any good? Some people are criers, others are not. I have gone head to head with the best of them to stand up for myself, but sometimes the tears come. It doesn't mean I am a door mat, or in histrionics or out of control. It is just what I do.

Give her a break!
I'll go back to what I said earlier. I, myself, cry easily. I understand she cried, it happens. However, the continuing to be so upset AFTER THE FACT that she considers the whole vacation ruined by this one incident and the way OP seems to blame the airline employee for her own reaction are over the top and overly emotional.

Do I think it is weird that the airline employee said something if the kids were really fine? Yes.

Does that mean her saying something, even if at the time it freaked OP out, is a big enough deal to still be upset about days alter, feel the vacation was ruined, etc for a mentally healthy adult? No.


At this point I am guessing that either Reno has a big problem with people leaving kids for long times to gamble, as some mentioned-which explains why employees might be quick to notice issues, or that one or more of the kids seemed frightened and that drew the attention of the employee (like, did the 4 year old start crying for Mommy?), or something else benign but reasonable to question occurred.
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Old 02-22-2013, 04:11 AM   #129
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To the OP:

I think you were perfectly reasonably to leave an 11 year old to watch the luggage with a 10 year old and a smaller child.

I am very sorry that an unreasonable agent treated you so rudely. And, I can fully appreciate that when traveling with four children, one of whom is in diapers, there is a great deal of stress. And, to be so rudely criticized for something you did -- as a mother -- that was completely reasonable, was very hurtful for you.

I tend to have a temper, so I might well have responded with anger rather than crying -- but I don't think that would necessarily have been a better response and might well have been a worse response.

So, I commend you for being very reasonable in your choice to leave your older children to take care of the younger one. And, I think your reaction to the rude agent is entirely justified.

I hope you will not let this trouble you further as you were entirely in the right.
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Old 02-22-2013, 06:02 AM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imzadi View Post
I think the majority of the people posting on this thread, as well as the OP, are missing the point that this happened in an AIRPORT. What may be fine, leaving an 11 year old in charge, leaving kids unattended for a few moments with luggage, in any other situation is incorrect in an AIRPORT.

The OP restated the what the gate agent for Southwest Airlines stated was PRECISELY what the problem was:

1. She left three children by themselves
2. She left three children by themselves with luggage
3. She left luggage essentially unattended

The SW agent also states:
"She called the husband AND security would be called next."

The SW agent followed proper procedure for an airport. If this was done in New York's JFK airport, LaGuardia or at Newark, security would probably have automatically detained the children as the children may have been abandoned overnite or completely, with some belongings to fend for themselves, and probably the whole family would have missed their flight until it was all sorted out IF the parents really did show up again.

SECONDLY, airport police with a bomb sniffing dog would have been called over to ensure that the children weren't just left with the unattended luggage as a decoy for a bomb placed in the luggage. Depending on the police officer, he may be annoyed that the dog was pulled away from sniffing for actual threats, or he may have the patience & understanding that some people are still so blissfully naive as to dangers of terrorism in airports, proven terrorist target zones.

I was at Laguardia once. I had my money & ID in a little fanny pack, worn at the back of my waist under my coat. I was standing at the end of a long line and reached under my coat to the small of my back to pull the fanny pack around to my front to take out my ID. It got caught at my hip. I turned to look at it and out of the corner of my eye, I saw that a National Guard soldier with an AK47, ready to be lifted & aimed, was walking toward me. The look on his face meant business. He had seen me reach under my coat for something concealed, and it might have been a gun. When he saw it was just my fanny pack & how shocked I was, he just turned & backed away. But I learned just how serious airport security is. And I am grateful for their watchful eyes & ears.

OP, YOUR actions, as unwitting and innocent as they would have been anywhere else, were potential problems in THIS situation, well beyond a "poopy diaper" and being yelled at in a way you weren't used to.

My suggestion to you is to read the book, Emotional Intelligence. As other people have stated, your reaction to the event was extreme for the situation. It is a book with concepts that could help you, especially as you have kids and need to roll model emotionally handling situations better and putting them into perspective. That a 5 minute situation can ruin a WHOLE vacation (of days???) says a lot. You need to learn techniques for some reframes, boundaries, some changes in perspective, and gaining control of your emotions.
1) If the kids had been sitting on the bench for 45 minutes to an hour, I can see someone checking on them. For 15-20 minutes? No. And again, how long can it take dad to return the rental/park the car (do we know which it was?)? I get the employee being concerned. But having kids sit by themselves for 15-20 minutes surrounded by luggage shouldn't be that concerning.
2) I love your description of "I saw that a National Guard soldier with an AK47, ready to be lifted & aimed, was walking toward me." The bolded is how the carry their weapons. It's even evident in all the pictures you posted. It had nothing to do with you reaching for your fanny pack. As far as "the look on his face"? What did you expect him to look like?
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:36 AM   #131
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1) If the kids had been sitting on the bench for 45 minutes to an hour, I can see someone checking on them. For 15-20 minutes? No. And again, how long can it take dad to return the rental/park the car (do we know which it was?)? I get the employee being concerned. But having kids sit by themselves for 15-20 minutes surrounded by luggage shouldn't be that concerning.
I completely agree.

A lifetime ago, I worked as a gate agent and a ticket agent at an international airport that was quite a bit larger than Reno's. IF I were working as a gate agent and saw the three children with the bags, I would not even had blinked an eye at them. The most that I would do is note what flight that they were on so they and their parents didn't miss it. At the ticket counter, I might wander over to them to see if I could help them out in any way. Probably not, though.

The truth is, kids of that age are left with the luggage for a few minutes all the time. It simply isn't a big deal. It's one of those things that might possibly cause you to keep one eye on them, but that's totally it.

As a parent, I would probably have gone off on the agent if she spoke to me or my wife the way that the OP described. I may have insisted on speaking to her supervisor, if I felt that I had the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_gordon View Post
2) I love your description of "I saw that a National Guard soldier with an AK47, ready to be lifted & aimed, was walking toward me." The bolded is how the carry their weapons. It's even evident in all the pictures you posted. It had nothing to do with you reaching for your fanny pack. As far as "the look on his face"? What did you expect him to look like?
I love that quote simply because no National Guard soldier would ever be issued an AK-47. That isn't a US weapon and looks nothing like the M16s or M4s that our troops would be carrying.
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:50 AM   #132
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We don't know if the TSA had given a national security alert just a couple hours earlier that day, to watch out for more situations than usual. What we do know is that the OP said the SW agent said that she left the children & bags unattended (which to me, in an airport means age 12 or adult supervision,) and it was about airport security protocols.

We've also had posters here on the DIS who have said that they have /or would call the police if they see children in a car unattended, even if they knew the parent was in the 7/11, only 100 ft away. So we also don't know if someone reported the unattended children to the SW agent and she suddenly had to do something about it or get reported herself or tweeted about that she did nothing.
I think the latter is the far more likely possibility. The OP said she just got back, and there haven't been any specific alerts or even significant "target" dates recently. But this country has absolutely no shortage of busybodies who think any child unattended for any length of time is worth a call to CPS (heck, I've had strangers approach me to berate me for leaving my kids - one of whom will be taking drivers ed this summer - alone in the car while I ran in to the gas station), so it is very possible that either the SW agent took a report from someone like that or fits the bill herself. I doubt it had anything to do with airport security or TSA rules and everything to do with the "You can never be too careful" approach to parenting that pervades our culture.
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:54 AM   #133
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I love that quote simply because no National Guard soldier would ever be issued an AK-47. That isn't a US weapon and looks nothing like the M16s or M4s that our troops would be carrying.
Good catch. I missed that. Then again, most people wouldn't be able to identify a specific weapon.
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Old 02-22-2013, 10:13 AM   #134
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Betting the original OP is sorry she ever started this thread.......
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:58 AM   #135
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Betting the original OP is sorry she ever started this thread.......
Actually, I can't understand why a lot of these type threads are started. They have to know, if they have read the Dis very long, that threads like these are just *asking* for all kinds of criticism, and hurtful comments. We all have very different opinions on how *anything* should be handled. My personal life belongs to me. I don't care, nor do I want to know, how others would handle my situations. Some threads are *very* personal.
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