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Old 02-16-2013, 03:03 PM   #31
Tiger926
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Brings up a good point with the passport thing. Sounds like the ocean currents were pushing the ship towards Mobile, but what if the whole passport thing favored on their minds when making the decision?

I am sorry, but if you have money to travel, then you factor passports into your budget.

It shows the common lack of foresight that people seem to have these days (eg. medical emergency and needing to get off of the ship in port) in planning ahead and preparing for emergencies, as well as a lack of altruism. Maybe my having a passport will help others onboard, so that is a good reason too.

The whole situation is very unfortunate, and pretty rare, but a possibility when cruising, so proper prepration is key.

The other thing to discuss is how many cruisers didn't have travel insurance, as they didn't want to spend the money, yet now, Carnival is taking care of them anyway.

Tiger
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Old 02-16-2013, 03:59 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by disykat View Post
The passport thing always surprises me. I live in a border state, yet know TONS of people (who have the resources to buy one) refuse to spend the money on a passport because they don't "need" it.

My main reason I got my passport was not because I was going to be traveling, but because family members were. If my child is going to be in Canada or Mexico, I want the ability to go there. If my parents (in their
80's) are going to be traveling in Europe, I want the ability to go there. If DH has to travel for work, I wouldn't want an opportunity to go with him to have to be passed up because I don't have a passport.

The reality is I haven't "needed" it, but to me the possibilities it opens up are worth it.
I got my first passport in 1987(?) for a class trip to Europe. Obviously that expired. I didn't NEED another passport until 2012. It's not like I have the financial & time capability to decide "Hey, I want to go out of the country next week, too bad I don't have a passport!"

And I think not taking a passport on a closed loop cruise is more a case of not doing proper research. Sort of like someone going to Disney and not knowing about Fast Pass or not knowing there's more than just Magic Kingdom.

Sorry, I don't get all the hate for those without passports.
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Old 02-16-2013, 04:04 PM   #33
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I don't see hate. I see people wondering why, for those whom money is not a big issue, if you live near a border (like me,) or if you are going to be traveling within a foreign country (like on a cruise,) you wouldn't be willing to get one for the "just in case" factor.

Sure there are a lot of people who truly have no need for them. But if you are traveling in a foreign country, live near a foreign country, have close family members in a foreign country, etc. why not get one? I think it's almost a point of pride thing for some people. Remember, I say that as a person living near a border who knows many people who have purposely never crossed it.
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Old 02-16-2013, 04:15 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger926 View Post
Brings up a good point with the passport thing. Sounds like the ocean currents were pushing the ship towards Mobile, but what if the whole passport thing favored on their minds when making the decision?

I am sorry, but if you have money to travel, then you factor passports into your budget.

It shows the common lack of foresight that people seem to have these days (eg. medical emergency and needing to get off of the ship in port) in planning ahead and preparing for emergencies, as well as a lack of altruism. Maybe my having a passport will help others onboard, so that is a good reason too.

The whole situation is very unfortunate, and pretty rare, but a possibility when cruising, so proper prepration is key.

The other thing to discuss is how many cruisers didn't have travel insurance, as they didn't want to spend the money, yet now, Carnival is taking care of them anyway.

Tiger
My understanding is that most travel insurance would not cover this anyway. The cruise was not cut short, they were returned (via bus) to the correct port, etc--so technically it does not fall under any normal insurance issue. That is one of the reasons this has been such a nightmare for people.

BTW--we do travel without travel insurance (our medical covers us anywhere and does cover being evacuated via helicopter if needed). We travel OFTEN and have made the conscious decision to risk having to cover our own airfare change, hotels, etc in an emergency rather than paying insurance every trip. We have cash and credit cards to allow for this and are fully aware of the risk we are taking.

We DO NOT travel without passports. Heck, I had passports for both kids as infants back when trips to/from Mexico did not need them, even by plane (and back them US to Mexico was all I was doing with them). I feel that the risk of being in a foreign country without them is too big to take, especially now that you have to have them to fly home.
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Old 02-16-2013, 04:36 PM   #35
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I will never understand why people get so worked up about other people choosing to not have a passport. There are some unusual circumstances in our case where it would be extremely difficult to get my 12 year old a passport but if I had a dollar for every passport lecture I've read on these boards I could probably pay for my upcoming cruise. (Don't worry, passport aren't required.)
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Old 02-16-2013, 04:40 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHdisneylover

My understanding is that most travel insurance would not cover this anyway. The cruise was not cut short, they were returned (via bus) to the correct port, etc--so technically it does not fall under any normal insurance issue. That is one of the reasons this has been such a nightmare for people.

BTW--we do travel without travel insurance (our medical covers us anywhere and does cover being evacuated via helicopter if needed). We travel OFTEN and have made the conscious decision to risk having to cover our own airfare change, hotels, etc in an emergency rather than paying insurance every trip. We have cash and credit cards to allow for this and are fully aware of the risk we are taking.

We DO NOT travel without passports. Heck, I had passports for both kids as infants back when trips to/from Mexico did not need them, even by plane (and back them US to Mexico was all I was doing with them). I feel that the risk of being in a foreign country without them is too big to take, especially now that you have to have them to fly home.
Why wouldn't travel or medical insurance cover this kind of issue?

You travel without insurance and have the funds to cover an emergency, so you wouldn't be making claims against the cruise line then. We do read stories though of families who don't have the funds to cover emergencies and don't get travel insurance, yet expect others to pay for the costs incurred. Highly irresponsible to do that...

First lawsuit was filed yesterday, so it will be interesting to see what happens with all of this.

Regarding passports, I still don't understand why people take a chance with not having one, especially with children. When you leave your country, you are in a different situation altogether, and passports are a small price to pay should a serious emergency occur. People have such a casual attitude in regards to this...

Tiger

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Old 02-16-2013, 04:40 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjje View Post
I will never understand why people get so worked up about other people choosing to not have a passport. There are some unusual circumstances in our case where it would be extremely difficult to get my 12 year old a passport but if I had a dollar for every passport lecture I've read on these boards I could probably pay for my upcoming cruise. (Don't worry, passport aren't required.)
Generally, I don't get "worked up"--I just feel it is a poor choice to make and would advise against it.
However, IF something like Triumph occurred and a decision was made to keep everyone on the ship longer for the convenience of those who chose to take the risk of travelling abroad without passports THEN I would be very upset that i was delayed due to their risk taking. (and, yes, I know the currents were the bigger factor this time--but the passport issue was certainly one consideration).

Essentially, I feel that if someone chooses to take that risk, then they should be prepared to deal with whatever hassles ensue if their trip is interrupted and have no right to complain about delays or having to cover their own costs while they wait for an embassy issued passport, etc.
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Old 02-16-2013, 04:48 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger926 View Post
Why wouldn't travel or medical insurance cover this kind of issue?

You travel without insurance and have the funds to cover an emergency, so you wouldn't be making claims against the cruise line then. We do see read stories though of families who don't have the funds to cover emergencies and don't get travel insurance. Highly irresponsible to do that...

First lawsuit was filed yesterday, so it will be interesting to see what happens with all of this.

Tiger
It would not be covered by most policies since most policies only cover:

1 "trip interruption" -- technically the trip was not "interrupted" or cut short. It was miserable and not what people expected, but it was not shortened.

2. "extra expenses incurred" -- so if someone had to change airfare to get back, then that would be covered--but nothing for the cost of a cruise spent mostly hot and stinky eating onion sandwiches, or for lost wages if there were any and very unlikely that extra pet boarding or babysitting costs would be covered either--just airfare change fees, etc at most.

This is actually one reason that with our current ages and heath we do not buy insurance--it often does not cover things that we would want. I totally think that if you do not have the means to cover an emergency yourself, have a strong liklihood of issues or are spending a HUGE sum (which varies depending on your income and savings level) on a trip, then the only reasonable thing to do is insure yourself--but, just as you need to know what not having a passport could put you through, you need to know what insurance really will cover and what it will not.
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Old 02-16-2013, 04:52 PM   #39
mdsoccermom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger926 View Post
Why wouldn't travel or medical insurance cover this kind of issue?

You travel without insurance and have the funds to cover an emergency, so you wouldn't be making claims against the cruise line then. We do see read stories though of families who don't have the funds to cover emergencies and don't get travel insurance. Highly irresponsible to do that...

First lawsuit was filed yesterday, so it will be interesting to see what happens with all of this.

Tiger
Travel insurance wouldn't cover it because 1) you sailed on time so there was no delay; 2) you never got off the ship that did sail so your cruise was not interrupted and 3) the cruise was never cancelled. No, you did not make your ports, but there is nothing in your policy that says you can or will make them. Plus, your cruise contract states the itineraries can be changed. You were compensated by the cruise line so there is no fare money lost.

If you went to medical during the week and received copies of your paperwork, you night be able to file a claim for any fees incurred, but that's about it.
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:51 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by disykat View Post
I don't see hate.
Here's the hate I saw in this thread to say nothing of other threads I've read...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdsoccermom View Post
It made more sense to push on towards Mobile due to the current and the 900 fools who left the country without a passport. You need a passport to re-enter the United States by air.

Yes, I said it. Fools. That is exactly what a person is if they travel to a foreign country without the proper documentation to get them on a plane if needed
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Originally Posted by mdsoccermom View Post
Just because it's not required doesn't make it a wise idea. It's plain stupid to leave the country without proper documentation. You can't plan for every little thing, but a passport, the gold standard if ID, takes care of a whole lot.

I believe if you are planning a trip out of the country, you need to budget for a passport, more so than fish extenders or candy for the crew.
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Originally Posted by WhateverLolaWants View Post
I agree it's foolish to travel without a passport while cruising. If something happens and they drop you off in a foreign port and leave you there then you will not be able to fly out of there without a passport. Same reason it's better to have an actual passport than a passport card. Yeah, 99.9% of the time you will be fine, but I wouldn't be willing to risk it.
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Originally Posted by ilovetexas View Post
That's the problem these days. People have to be "required" (read: forced) to do things that are sensible. Nobody wants to be responsible for thinking on their own. Imagine the cries of RAGE if they had ended up towing the ship to Mexico and 900 people had to wait a couple/few more days before they could get home because THEY didn't have a passport. It would have been 47 more verses of "It's Carnival's fault, they didn't require me to have a passport".

Good grief!
Quote:
I see people wondering why, for those whom money is not a big issue, if you live near a border (like me,) or if you are going to be traveling within a foreign country (like on a cruise,) you wouldn't be willing to get one for the "just in case" factor.

Sure there are a lot of people who truly have no need for them. But if you are traveling in a foreign country, live near a foreign country, have close family members in a foreign country, etc. why not get one? I think it's almost a point of pride thing for some people. Remember, I say that as a person living near a border who knows many people who have purposely never crossed it.
OK, so the 900 on the cruise ship obviously were travelling to a foreign country, but how many live near one? Or have close family members living in one? Or have the extra money for one.

Look, I agree a passport *IS* a good thing to have, even on a closed loop cruise. But can a cruise line REQUIRE someone to have a passport even if the government (of whichever county the cruise is visiting) doesn't?
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Old 02-16-2013, 07:11 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by sam_gordon View Post
Here's the hate I saw in this thread to say nothing of other threads I've read...










OK, so the 900 on the cruise ship obviously were travelling to a foreign country, but how many live near one? Or have close family members living in one? Or have the extra money for one.

Look, I agree a passport *IS* a good thing to have, even on a closed loop cruise. But can a cruise line REQUIRE someone to have a passport even if the government (of whichever county the cruise is visiting) doesn't?
Maybe not the cruise line, but our government certainly can. They are the ones who set the closed loop rule, and the entity who said U.S. citizens must have a passport to return to the U.S. via air. They can, and should, expand that for all cruisers.
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Old 02-16-2013, 07:22 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by NHdisneylover

It would not be covered by most policies since most policies only cover:

1 "trip interruption" -- technically the trip was not "interrupted" or cut short. It was miserable and not what people expected, but it was not shortened.

2. "extra expenses incurred" -- so if someone had to change airfare to get back, then that would be covered--but nothing for the cost of a cruise spent mostly hot and stinky eating onion sandwiches, or for lost wages if there were any and very unlikely that extra pet boarding or babysitting costs would be covered either--just airfare change fees, etc at most.

This is actually one reason that with our current ages and heath we do not buy insurance--it often does not cover things that we would want. I totally think that if you do not have the means to cover an emergency yourself, have a strong liklihood of issues or are spending a HUGE sum (which varies depending on your income and savings level) on a trip, then the only reasonable thing to do is insure yourself--but, just as you need to know what not having a passport could put you through, you need to know what insurance really will cover and what it will not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdsoccermom

Travel insurance wouldn't cover it because 1) you sailed on time so there was no delay; 2) you never got off the ship that did sail so your cruise was not interrupted and 3) the cruise was never cancelled. No, you did not make your ports, but there is nothing in your policy that says you can or will make them. Plus, your cruise contract states the itineraries can be changed. You were compensated by the cruise line so there is no fare money lost.

If you went to medical during the week and received copies of your paperwork, you night be able to file a claim for any fees incurred, but that's about it.
Thanks.

I was more talking about medical trip insurance, but I was wondering if trip interruption would come into play at all, not in regards to missed ports as those aren't guaranteed, but in terms of sanitation of ship, no food, etc

Tiger
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Old 02-16-2013, 07:38 PM   #43
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Thanks.

I was more talking about medical trip insurance, but I was wondering if trip interruption would come into play at all, not in regards to missed ports as those aren't guaranteed, but in terms of sanitation of ship, no food, etc

Tiger
Nope, trip interruption refers to the complete cessation of travel. Since passengers remained on the ship and did not lose more than 50% of travel, I.e. left the ship early, the trip technically wasn't interrupted.

I keep Travel Guard's policies on my iPad.
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Old 02-16-2013, 08:14 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by sam_gordon View Post


OK, so the 900 on the cruise ship obviously were travelling to a foreign country, but how many live near one? Or have close family members living in one? Or have the extra money for one.
I read the posts, no one said anything about people who didn't have those qualifiers you listed above needing one.
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Old 02-16-2013, 09:00 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by NHdisneylover View Post
My understanding is that most travel insurance would not cover this anyway. The cruise was not cut short, they were returned (via bus) to the correct port, etc--so technically it does not fall under any normal insurance issue. That is one of the reasons this has been such a nightmare for people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHdisneylover View Post
It would not be covered by most policies since most policies only cover:

1 "trip interruption" -- technically the trip was not "interrupted" or cut short. It was miserable and not what people expected, but it was not shortened.

2. "extra expenses incurred" -- so if someone had to change airfare to get back, then that would be covered--but nothing for the cost of a cruise spent mostly hot and stinky eating onion sandwiches, or for lost wages if there were any and very unlikely that extra pet boarding or babysitting costs would be covered either--just airfare change fees, etc at most.

This is actually one reason that with our current ages and heath we do not buy insurance--it often does not cover things that we would want. I totally think that if you do not have the means to cover an emergency yourself, have a strong liklihood of issues or are spending a HUGE sum (which varies depending on your income and savings level) on a trip, then the only reasonable thing to do is insure yourself--but, just as you need to know what not having a passport could put you through, you need to know what insurance really will cover and what it will not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdsoccermom View Post
Travel insurance wouldn't cover it because 1) you sailed on time so there was no delay; 2) you never got off the ship that did sail so your cruise was not interrupted and 3) the cruise was never cancelled. No, you did not make your ports, but there is nothing in your policy that says you can or will make them. Plus, your cruise contract states the itineraries can be changed. You were compensated by the cruise line so there is no fare money lost.

If you went to medical during the week and received copies of your paperwork, you night be able to file a claim for any fees incurred, but that's about it.
You are correct about "trip delay" or "trip interruption" if you consider only the front-end of the trip. However, most trip insurance also covers the return home -

For example:
"When Coverage Ends
Your coverage automatically ends on the earlier of:
1. the date the Covered Trip is completed;
2. the Scheduled Return Date;
3. cancellation of the Covered Trip covered by the plan;
4. your arrival at the return destination on a round-trip,
or the destination on a one-way trip.
All coverages under the plan will be extended if your
entire Covered Trip is covered by the plan and your
return is delayed by unavoidable circumstances beyond
your control.

If coverage is extended for the above reasons,
coverage will end on the earlier of the date you reach
your originally scheduled return destination or seven (7)
days after the Scheduled Return Date.[/quote]
(bold added).

If you're stuck at an airport, or stuck on a ship, your trip home is certainly "delayed" and you will be reimbursed by the insurer under Trip Delay. It may pay for extra expenses like babysitting or pet sitting or even lost wages, depending on the coverage chosen.
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