Disney Information Station Logo

Go Back   The DIS Discussion Forums - DISboards.com > Just for Fun > Community Board
Find Hotel Specials & DIScounts
 
facebooktwitterpinterestgoogle plusyoutubeDIS UpdatesDIS email updates
Register Chat FAQ Tickers Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read





Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-16-2013, 11:58 AM   #31
Tonka's Skipper
DIS Veteran
 
Tonka's Skipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Connecticut in the Good Ole USA
Posts: 4,621

1st hint USCG discussion of the cause, or more what was not the cause of the frie.

Well here is the first hint:


As reported by CBS News, Coast Guard Marine Investigator Patrick Cuty said the investigation has already revealed the ship's engine is intact and "probably operable." Therefore, he surmised, the fire did not originate with the engine itself. Investigators will continue to work to determine where the fire started.


AKK
Tonka's Skipper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2013, 12:03 PM   #32
Rogillio
DIS Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Alabama
Posts: 2,034

Back to the OP question...I don't anyone knows yet. One thing for sure,if someone was 'on the fence' being leery of cruise ships, I'm pretty sure the are no longer on the fence. Some folks will believe this is a CCL systemic problem and avoid CCL. But i think for most of us, we will realize this is a very rare experience and it won't effect their cruising plans.

I think time will tell if this effects pricing. I read an article yesterday about the impact of social media will have as people start posting pix from the cruise. I saw a pix yesterday of buckets in the bathroom with plastic bags.
__________________
WDW 4/98, Yellowstone 6/99, 4-day Bahamas DCL 6/00, Washington DC 6/01, WDW 1/02, Scotland 6/02, Alaska 6/03, 7-day Caribbean DCL 6/04, 4-day Bahamas DCL 1/05, WDW 1/05, Universal 3/05, Norway 6/05, NYC Waldorf-Astoria 10/05, Snowshoe, WV 12/05, China Adventure 3/06, WDW 6/06, Copper Mountain, CO 12/06, 11-day DCL Med Cruise 5/07, 4-day Bahamas DCL 10/07, 7 Day NCL cruise - Hawaii 7/08, Door County, WI 7/09, Snowshoe WV, 12/09, 12-day DCL Baltic cruise 6/10, 7-day Caribbean HAL 12/10, WDW 6/11, 5-day Dream NYE 12/11, 7-day Canadian HAL 6/12, 3-day Dream Jan 2013, 4-day Dream Feb 2013, 5-day CCL NOLA, 7 days hiking in the Himilayans, Katmandu, Nepal 5/14 7-day RCCL 7/14
Rogillio is offline   Reply With Quote
|
The DIS
Register to remove

Join Date: 1997
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,000,000
Old 02-16-2013, 12:04 PM   #33
ilovetexas
DIS Veteran
 
ilovetexas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Suburban Atlanta
Posts: 1,317

Quote:
Originally Posted by truck1 View Post
Hers basically how it works. A given ship has several diesel engines that are connected to generators/alternators. They are linked to a panel that distributes the power throughout the ship. How many and how big are based on ship size and electrical load. A given ship uses about 80% power to the electric engines(azipods or shaft driven. In either case the drive motors are separate and different from the ships main engines/generators) that actually move the ship. If say 1 engine blows a generator for example the ship loses that power amount. So instead of the ship generating say 10mw of power its may now only have say 8. If the ships total power usage is say 9mw the ship will brown out certain things and won't have the power available to reach normal cruising speed and still provide power for the hotel portion.
Makes sense. So, a "propulsion problem" isn't necessarily synonymous with poor maintenance. Spare parts for cruise ships aren't just lying around; I'd imagine once a problem is discovered, they may have to have parts (or total systems) manufactured and/or flown in. I don't think people realize how often this happens, either. I know Crystal recently had a software glitch that caused a propulsion problem; they had to fly someone in to fix it.

I'm not saying that this wasn't part of the current problem, I'm just saying that the media is making unfounded accusations. Correlation doesn't prove causation. The USCG report on the Splendor fire was released within a couple of months of the fire; I wish everyone would just hold their horses and see what's what. I assure you that if this is stupid human error again, I won't set foot on another CCL ship until Gerry Cahill is fired.
__________________
ilovetexas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2013, 12:07 PM   #34
pjacobi
DIS Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 835

Triumph: All eggs in one basket

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonka's Skipper View Post
Most of the cruise ships today are *Diesel Electric* systems. In short you have massive diesel engines, turning large generators. Some of these generators feed electrical power to the vessel for operation and hotel services. Most of them power large electric motors that turn the shafts and porpellars or the Pods which turn the propellars.
The design issue of the Triumph is that all "eggs"/generators were located in one "basket"/room. One fire wiped out all power.

A better design would be to put "eggs"/generators in seperate fire-proof areas of the ship.

Do Disney ships follow the same design as the Triumph?


-Paul
pjacobi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2013, 12:13 PM   #35
ilovetexas
DIS Veteran
 
ilovetexas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Suburban Atlanta
Posts: 1,317

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogillio View Post
Back to the OP question...I don't anyone knows yet. One thing for sure,if someone was 'on the fence' being leery of cruise ships, I'm pretty sure the are no longer on the fence. Some folks will believe this is a CCL systemic problem and avoid CCL. But i think for most of us, we will realize this is a very rare experience and it won't effect their cruising plans.

I think time will tell if this effects pricing. I read an article yesterday about the impact of social media will have as people start posting pix from the cruise. I saw a pix yesterday of buckets in the bathroom with plastic bags.
I've actually been trying to take the OP's question more seriously and since I like to argue with you about economics , I've been trying to determine what the impact would be of a shift in the demand curve (to the left). There are too many variables to decide. Would people just be upset with/afraid of CCL? Carnival Corp? All cruise lines? If it's just new cruisers, that's going to have the biggest impact on CCL. Also, it's not like the industry can (in the short run), reduce output to avoid lowering prices.

All facts considered, due to no loss of life, I don't think this has any lasting impact. Cruise fares have been going up for years as people have discovered cruising and I don't think that's going to change. Then again, I hated my economics classes so chances are I missed an important lecture that would have answered that question.
__________________
ilovetexas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2013, 12:19 PM   #36
hgon76
DIS Veteran
 
hgon76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: MA
Posts: 1,399

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovetexas

I was on the fifth Fantasy sailing and it wasn't full, either. We were bumped to a higher category than we booked. I don't think it had ANYTHING to do with Concordia. The Fantasy launched a few weeks before school let out, we booked it then on purpose. Even parents who will take their kids out of school for a cruise (myself included when mine were younger) won't do it at certain times of year; the first couple of weeks and the last couple of weeks of school are usually off limits.

Those last weeks in April and first few in May are full of field days, parties, testing, etc. On other lines, it's a great time to cruise sans kids. Most people wait until school is out, which is why I love to cruise in early/mid May. I'm cruising during spring break this year because I'll be in Cuba in May.
It was school spring break vacation for us & most of the East Coast the week we went. Airfare was @ a premium. And it was the most expensive week for April when we booked it.
__________________
meDH DS DD


hgon76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2013, 12:20 PM   #37
Rogillio
DIS Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Alabama
Posts: 2,034

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovetexas View Post
I've actually been trying to take the OP's question more seriously and since I like to argue with you about economics , I've been trying to determine what the impact would be of a shift in the demand curve (to the left). There are too many variables to decide. Would people just be upset with/afraid of CCL? Carnival Corp? All cruise lines? If it's just new cruisers, that's going to have the biggest impact on CCL. Also, it's not like the industry can (in the short run), reduce output to avoid lowering prices.

All facts considered, due to no loss of life, I don't think this has any lasting impact. Cruise fares have been going up for years as people have discovered cruising and I don't think that's going to change. Then again, I hated my economics classes so chances are I missed an important lecture that would have answered that question.

Well I'm an electrical engineer not an economist so I'm opining based on gut feel.....and probably wrong.
__________________
WDW 4/98, Yellowstone 6/99, 4-day Bahamas DCL 6/00, Washington DC 6/01, WDW 1/02, Scotland 6/02, Alaska 6/03, 7-day Caribbean DCL 6/04, 4-day Bahamas DCL 1/05, WDW 1/05, Universal 3/05, Norway 6/05, NYC Waldorf-Astoria 10/05, Snowshoe, WV 12/05, China Adventure 3/06, WDW 6/06, Copper Mountain, CO 12/06, 11-day DCL Med Cruise 5/07, 4-day Bahamas DCL 10/07, 7 Day NCL cruise - Hawaii 7/08, Door County, WI 7/09, Snowshoe WV, 12/09, 12-day DCL Baltic cruise 6/10, 7-day Caribbean HAL 12/10, WDW 6/11, 5-day Dream NYE 12/11, 7-day Canadian HAL 6/12, 3-day Dream Jan 2013, 4-day Dream Feb 2013, 5-day CCL NOLA, 7 days hiking in the Himilayans, Katmandu, Nepal 5/14 7-day RCCL 7/14
Rogillio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2013, 12:31 PM   #38
FJS961
DIS Veteran
 
FJS961's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: CT
Posts: 1,812

We had little (to no) interest in a Carnival cruise as it was ... now, ... fuggedaboutit!!
FJS961 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2013, 12:38 PM   #39
Chee Chick
DIS Veteran
 
Chee Chick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 685

My parents booked a Carnival cruise out of New Orleans just yesterday. I told my mom that she was crazy. Her response was that she thinks this is probably the best time to go since there will be a lot more scrutiny of their entire fleet. I hope she is right. I have a feeling many others feel the same way. Especially the die hard Carnival fans.
__________________
DH, Me, DS(9), DD(4)
Summer 1981, July 1988, Dec 1993, Oct 1994, Aug 1996 - WDW offsite
Sept 2008 - BC; April 2009 - WL; Nov 2012 - DCL Magic; June 2014 - POR/DCL Fantasy




Chee Chick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2013, 01:21 PM   #40
ilovetexas
DIS Veteran
 
ilovetexas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Suburban Atlanta
Posts: 1,317

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chee Chick View Post
My parents booked a Carnival cruise out of New Orleans just yesterday. I told my mom that she was crazy. Her response was that she thinks this is probably the best time to go since there will be a lot more scrutiny of their entire fleet. I hope she is right. I have a feeling many others feel the same way. Especially the die hard Carnival fans.
If this turns out to be just an accident, which could happen on ANY cruise ship anywhere, is she (and are we) still crazy? Exactly who does she think is going to be expertly "scrutinizing" their entire fleet? The USCG only has authority to routinely examine ships if they home port here and then only to verify compliance with international safety standards set by the IMO. Which are, by the way, not so great especially in regards to shipboard fire squad training.

A ship's flag nation is responsible for certifying the ship's compliance with safety standards. Where are your DCL ships flagged? Probably the Bahamas, same as Carnival Triumph.

Do you, FOR A FACT, know that DCL's safety standards are any higher than Carnival's? No, you don't. You are assuming. CCL operates 23 ships, Carnival Corporation operates 100. DCL operates 4 and until recently, only 2. When and if DCL has sailed the high seas for as many days as CCL and has done so without major incident, only then can you say for sure that it was anything other than the basic law of percentages that caused this.

Look, you're entitled to your opinion but assuming this couldn't happen on DCL is naive. Just as naive as any Carnival cheerleader saying right now that it isn't Carnival's fault. We don't know that, it might be.
__________________
ilovetexas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2013, 01:51 PM   #41
kcashner
DIS Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 33,275

I was on the Magic when she lost one of her 5 engines. We were kept informed of the situation and made an early port departure as our speed back to Port Canaveral was slightly slowed. They explained that they had tried to do the repairs at the port of call, but this was not successful and the full repair would wait till the ship was at Port Canaveral.

I do realize that loss of a single engine is completely different from loss of all power. My point is that stuff happens on DCL ships as well, and they deal with each circumstance as best they can.

We've been told during a galley tour that the Magic always goes out with 10 days worth of food and supplies (at that time she did 7 night cruises). Again, that's great...but if they can't cook the food, having it on board doesn't help.
kcashner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2013, 02:09 PM   #42
Tonka's Skipper
DIS Veteran
 
Tonka's Skipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Connecticut in the Good Ole USA
Posts: 4,621

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcashner View Post
I was on the Magic when she lost one of her 5 engines. We were kept informed of the situation and made an early port departure as our speed back to Port Canaveral was slightly slowed. They explained that they had tried to do the repairs at the port of call, but this was not successful and the full repair would wait till the ship was at Port Canaveral.

I do realize that loss of a single engine is completely different from loss of all power. My point is that stuff happens on DCL ships as well, and they deal with each circumstance as best they can.

We've been told during a galley tour that the Magic always goes out with 10 days worth of food and supplies (at that time she did 7 night cruises). Again, that's great...but if they can't cook the food, having it on board doesn't help.

If the Truimph fire spotlighted anything, the food issue was a a big one!.

I am willing to bet every Line, if they didnt already have them, has arranged to have generators and/or cooking eqiupment available to drop to the ships if needed.

AKK
Tonka's Skipper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2013, 02:10 PM   #43
Chee Chick
DIS Veteran
 
Chee Chick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 685

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovetexas

Do you, FOR A FACT, know that DCL's safety standards are any higher than Carnival's? No, you don't. You are assuming. CCL operates 23 ships, Carnival Corporation operates 100. DCL operates 4 and until recently, only 2. When and if DCL has sailed the high seas for as many days as CCL and has done so without major incident, only then can you say for sure that it was anything other than the basic law of percentages that caused this.

Look, you're entitled to your opinion but assuming this couldn't happen on DCL is naive. Just as naive as any Carnival cheerleader saying right now that it isn't Carnival's fault. We don't know that, it might be.
I never expressed an opinion that I thought DCL has higher safety standard that other cruise lines. I never even mentioned DCL in my post. You are the one making assumptions here.

Maybe I should have stated to answer the OP's question that I don't think prices will go down based on this incident. People are still booking cruises (like my parents did yesterday). It is still a good value mostly and people have short term memory when it comes to these things.
__________________
DH, Me, DS(9), DD(4)
Summer 1981, July 1988, Dec 1993, Oct 1994, Aug 1996 - WDW offsite
Sept 2008 - BC; April 2009 - WL; Nov 2012 - DCL Magic; June 2014 - POR/DCL Fantasy




Chee Chick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2013, 02:13 PM   #44
Tiger926
DIS Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,212

Article in our paper today said the opposite about cancelled cruises. Multiple travel agents quoted who said they didn't get any calls to cancel this week, and in fact, booked cruises as normal.

This event is a rare occurrence, but Carnival Corp unfortunately doesn't have a good track record with this and the Costa disaster, so they may feel it a bit. Then again, some Carnival cruises are pretty darn cheap, so how much lower can they go?

Tiger
Tiger926 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2013, 02:23 PM   #45
Tonka's Skipper
DIS Veteran
 
Tonka's Skipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Connecticut in the Good Ole USA
Posts: 4,621

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovetexas View Post
If this turns out to be just an accident, which could happen on ANY cruise ship anywhere, is she (and are we) still crazy? Exactly who does she think is going to be expertly "scrutinizing" their entire fleet? The USCG only has authority to routinely examine ships if they home port here and then only to verify compliance with international safety standards set by the IMO. Which are, by the way, not so great especially in regards to shipboard fire squad training.

A ship's flag nation is responsible for certifying the ship's compliance with safety standards. Where are your DCL ships flagged? Probably the Bahamas, same as Carnival Triumph.
Do you, FOR A FACT, know that DCL's safety standards are any higher than Carnival's? No, you don't. You are assuming. CCL operates 23 ships, Carnival Corporation operates 100. DCL operates 4 and until recently, only 2. When and if DCL has sailed the high seas for as many days as CCL and has done so without major incident, only then can you say for sure that it was anything other than the basic law of percentages that caused this.

Look, you're entitled to your opinion but assuming this couldn't happen on DCL is naive. Just as naive as any Carnival cheerleader saying right now that it isn't Carnival's fault. We don't know that, it might be.


The DCL vessels are indeed flagged in the Bahamas, but the truth be known, the Flags of Convience are more for tax purposes then anything else. All countries just sign off on the IMO and solas standards. Now if the lines just follow them or do better is up to them.

The USCG does have alot of responsiblity in US port and coastal waters to inspect vessels, they can actually tie a vessel to a dock with an email or phone call, but that is something that would not be done lightly. However if reqiured they can and have done it, passingers onboard and waiting!

The real inspections are done by Class and the P and I (protection and endemity insurance ) surveyors. They peroidodicaly (I never can spell!) do details inspections of vessel eqiupment, records, drills etc.


As to DCL vs Carnival...I just leave it with we disagree.

AKK
Tonka's Skipper is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

facebooktwitterpinterestgoogle plusyoutubeDIS Updates
GET OUR DIS UPDATES DELIVERED BY EMAIL



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:21 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Copyright © 1997-2014, Werner Technologies, LLC. All Rights Reserved.