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Old 02-16-2013, 11:04 AM   #16
ilovetexas
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Originally Posted by hgon76 View Post
This did happen after the Concordia. I was booked in an ocean view on the Fantasy for April last year. After this incident many of us were bumped up shortly after (we got a verandah) free. And this was when Fantasy was a brand new ship. 3rd sailing.
I was on the fifth Fantasy sailing and it wasn't full, either. We were bumped to a higher category than we booked. I don't think it had ANYTHING to do with Concordia. The Fantasy launched a few weeks before school let out, we booked it then on purpose. Even parents who will take their kids out of school for a cruise (myself included when mine were younger) won't do it at certain times of year; the first couple of weeks and the last couple of weeks of school are usually off limits.

Those last weeks in April and first few in May are full of field days, parties, testing, etc. On other lines, it's a great time to cruise sans kids. Most people wait until school is out, which is why I love to cruise in early/mid May. I'm cruising during spring break this year because I'll be in Cuba in May.
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Old 02-16-2013, 11:06 AM   #17
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Time will tell. But remember, the Magic and Wonder were built in the same shipyard as the Triumph and both are older. So if there is a design flaw, it is with the maker of the ship, not the cruise line that owns it.

As I have posted in other threads, I don' think any other cruise line could have handled this any differently as far as getting the ship back to shore. Now, you certainly could argue that the support families back on land got form Carnival during the ordeal might have been handled different.
An engine fire in a ship that has been in service for 13 years is probably (not definitely, but probably) not a design flaw. Maintenance flaw maybe, or (most likely) operator error.
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Old 02-16-2013, 11:09 AM   #18
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Well, I am a little amused at the idea that Magic and Wonder were made at the same shipyard as the Triumph and therefore one might have to worry about the Magic and the Wonder having the same issue.

Carnival kept Triumph sailing even after mechanical problems in the weeks prior to this sailing. Triumph was clearly not well maintained.

Suppose we each buy a Chrysler built the same day in the same factory. Now suppose that you maintain your car with oil changes, tire rotations and replacements, replace worn belts and hoses, replace the engine's air filter. Meanwhile, I never do a thing to my car except add gas as needed. When my car fails, you don't have to worry that your car is going to fail too.
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Old 02-16-2013, 11:11 AM   #19
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One cruise industry article has thrown out the possibility that if there is indeed a reducion in bookings, there may be a cancelling of propossed newly biult cruise ships.

AKK
That's always a possibility but I'd hate to see it happen. The new ships are the ones being built with the required "safe return to port" standards.

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=5201

If memory serves, Carnival doesn't have any in the works right now; they are just doing a MAJOR refurb on Destiny and renaming it; so maybe if there is backlash, it won't impact everyone else. I'd like to see new ships built with better redundancy systems. That said, I'd prefer they be smaller, too!
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Old 02-16-2013, 11:26 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by ilovetexas View Post
That's always a possibility but I'd hate to see it happen. The new ships are the ones being built with the required "safe return to port" standards.

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=5201

If memory serves, Carnival doesn't have any in the works right now; they are just doing a MAJOR refurb on Destiny and renaming it; so maybe if there is backlash, it won't impact everyone else. I'd like to see new ships built with better redundancy systems. That said, I'd prefer they be smaller, too!



WE AGREE!

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Old 02-16-2013, 11:35 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Four Swampers
Well, I am a little amused at the idea that Magic and Wonder were made at the same shipyard as the Triumph and therefore one might have to worry about the Magic and the Wonder having the same issue.

Carnival kept Triumph sailing even after mechanical problems in the weeks prior to this sailing. Triumph was clearly not well maintained.

Suppose we each buy a Chrysler built the same day in the same factory. Now suppose that you maintain your car with oil changes, tire rotations and replacements, replace worn belts and hoses, replace the engine's air filter. Meanwhile, I never do a thing to my car except add gas as needed. When my car fails, you don't have to worry that your car is going to fail too.
Triumph was built in Monfalcone Italy. The Magic and Wonder were built in Marghera. Same builder 2 different yards.Triumph was launched in between the Magic and Wonders Maiden.
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Old 02-16-2013, 11:52 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Four Swampers View Post
Well, I am a little amused at the idea that Magic and Wonder were made at the same shipyard as the Triumph and therefore one might have to worry about the Magic and the Wonder having the same issue.

Carnival kept Triumph sailing even after mechanical problems in the weeks prior to this sailing. Triumph was clearly not well maintained.

Suppose we each buy a Chrysler built the same day in the same factory. Now suppose that you maintain your car with oil changes, tire rotations and replacements, replace worn belts and hoses, replace the engine's air filter. Meanwhile, I never do a thing to my car except add gas as needed. When my car fails, you don't have to worry that your car is going to fail too.
Not sure that is accurate. From what I've seen, the mechanical problems on the Triumph were propulsion issues. There are brand new ships that have those problems, the Celebrity Reflection comes to mind. Celebrity has plans to fix the issue, but sails in the mean time and just plans to get into some ports later, as travel takes longer. A LOT of ships experience these problems and I don't think there is a sense of urgency to fix them until they impact actually being able to get from port to port.

Now, this is where Tonka's Skipper may have to help us out, as I don't know the difference between propulsion systems vs engines, etc. I assumed they were the same thing. Regardless, if Celebrity has ongoing propulsion issues and isn't hiding them and is planning on fixing them, I wouldn't imagine they are a concern for a FIRE. Just slower travel. Kinda like the difference between driving a Toyota Corolla and a Ford Mustang. Both good cars but 0-60 mph and top end speeds are VERY different.
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:06 PM   #23
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If DCL has trouble filling cruises for specific dates, specials and or price reductions will be available. If prices are reduced before the penalty period starts, you'll be given the better rate UPON REQUEST (not automatically). In this case, it helps to have a TA that tracks all rates on their bookings. Specials may be available to new bookings only.

There will not be a way to track whether decreased demand for DCL cruises night have been due to the Triumph issue, dates, ports, or whatever. Whenever a cruise isn't filling, it can be a good time to take advantage of specials.

Upgrades...the pixie dust lands where it will. Obviously. there are more upgrades available (free or for a price) when the ship isn't nearly full. Again, there are many reasons why a given date may not fill.
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:08 PM   #24
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the concordia sank, the triumph didn't...
so people were uncomfortable, but the ship didn't sink despite an engine fire..
if anything, it showed that ships are relatively safe - certainly vs airplanes....
i'd love to float around in an airplane without any engines...not....

i doubt the triumph will have any impact at all other than a short term impact on carnival itself..
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:10 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovetexas

Not sure that is accurate. From what I've seen, the mechanical problems on the Triumph were propulsion issues. There are brand new ships that have those problems, the Celebrity Reflection comes to mind. Celebrity has plans to fix the issue, but sails in the mean time and just plans to get into some ports later, as travel takes longer. A LOT of ships experience these problems and I don't think there is a sense of urgency to fix them until they impact actually being able to get from port to port.

Now, this is where Tonka's Skipper may have to help us out, as I don't know the difference between propulsion systems vs engines, etc. I assumed they were the same thing. Regardless, if Celebrity has ongoing propulsion issues and isn't hiding them and is planning on fixing them, I wouldn't imagine they are a concern for a FIRE. Just slower travel. Kinda like the difference between driving a Toyota Corolla and a Ford Mustang. Both good cars but 0-60 mph and top end speeds are VERY different.
Hers basically how it works. A given ship has several diesel engines that are connected to generators/alternators. They are linked to a panel that distributes the power throughout the ship. How many and how big are based on ship size and electrical load. A given ship uses about 80% power to the electric engines(azipods or shaft driven. In either case the drive motors are separate and different from the ships main engines/generators) that actually move the ship. If say 1 engine blows a generator for example the ship loses that power amount. So instead of the ship generating say 10mw of power its may now only have say 8. If the ships total power usage is say 9mw the ship will brown out certain things and won't have the power available to reach normal cruising speed and still provide power for the hotel portion.
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:23 PM   #26
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the concordia sank, the triumph didn't...
so people were uncomfortable, but the ship didn't sink despite an engine fire..
if anything, it showed that ships are relatively safe - certainly vs airplanes....
i'd love to float around in an airplane without any engines...not....

i doubt the triumph will have any impact at all other than a short term impact on carnival itself..

After seeing the pictures and hearing the passingers accounts (not the medias), to continue and use the terms *so people were uncomfortable * to discribe the horrid conditions onboard the Triumph is the same as sticking your head in the sand......

Since the vessel was having contiunued problems that ended in a major fire, *relatively Safe* is not a term that can be responsibily used to discribe the trumphs condition at that time!

Please come into reality!

AKK

Last edited by Tonka's Skipper; 02-16-2013 at 12:47 PM.
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:27 PM   #27
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I don't know if they had anything to do with Concordia, but I know I went on the first Eastern on the Fantasy and from what I heard ship was not really full, but I don't think it had to do with Concordia, maybe some, but not all of it
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I was on the fifth Fantasy sailing and it wasn't full, either. We were bumped to a higher category than we booked. I don't think it had ANYTHING to do with Concordia.
^^^^ ITA with this! The MV wasn't full either. The first few cruises on the Fantasy were not booked to capacity so they could get the crew up to par with the larger guest numbers. It had nothing to do with the Concordia. I don't remember prices for future cruises on DCL dropping at all at that time. The only thing I remember being affected was the announcement for the next round of cruises being released. The Triumph was no where near the severity of the Concordia so I wouldn't expect it to affect DCL's prices at all.
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:37 PM   #28
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Ok, I have always gone through life thinking that I have no real phobias. I'm not scared of flying, bugs/spiders don't bother me, I love my son's snake as much as he does, etc etc. However, over the course of the past few years I have discovered that I really am afraid of LARGE ships. Not boats - we live next to a large lake and I love going out on the boats, but the large ships like the cruise ships. Now, I have never been on a large ship (single parent on a social worker's salary! LOL) so maybe if it did happen I would find that it's not so bad. All these pictures and descriptions, however, make me shiver to my bones!! I honestly think I would rather go and do anything else for a vacation than take a cruise. So I am doing my part to lower prices for those of you that love to cruise. You're welcome!! ROTFL
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:40 PM   #29
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Not sure that is accurate. From what I've seen, the mechanical problems on the Triumph were propulsion issues. There are brand new ships that have those problems, the Celebrity Reflection comes to mind. Celebrity has plans to fix the issue, but sails in the mean time and just plans to get into some ports later, as travel takes longer. A LOT of ships experience these problems and I don't think there is a sense of urgency to fix them until they impact actually being able to get from port to port.

Now, this is where Tonka's Skipper may have to help us out, as I don't know the difference between propulsion systems vs engines, etc. I assumed they were the same thing. Regardless, if Celebrity has ongoing propulsion issues and isn't hiding them and is planning on fixing them, I wouldn't imagine they are a concern for a FIRE. Just slower travel. Kinda like the difference between driving a Toyota Corolla and a Ford Mustang. Both good cars but 0-60 mph and top end speeds are VERY different.

OK....remember I am a deckie, not a engineer.........and Truck1, I welcome your help here.

Most of the cruise ships today are *Diesel Electric* systems. In short you have massive diesel engines, turning large generators. Some of these generators feed electrical power to the vessel for operation and hotel services. Most of them power large electric motors that turn the shafts and porpellars or the Pods which turn the propellars.

So you can see everything is tied together. You can have a problem with 1 area and not effect others or effect the whole system.


You are correct not all problems reqiure repairs right away. The system may work safely at a slower speed. Other parts may have a problem, and you try to keep going, hoping for no major issues.

There are some problems you just handle onboard. There are other problems that reqiure you advise port authorties, the USCG (in US waters) and your Class, the class being the company who inspects and over sees your vessel to ensure it is being maintained and repaired properly.

This all comes back to the fact we don't yet have any real details on just what happened on the Trumph.

AKK

Last edited by Tonka's Skipper; 02-16-2013 at 01:01 PM.
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:42 PM   #30
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Hers basically how it works. A given ship has several diesel engines that are connected to generators/alternators. They are linked to a panel that distributes the power throughout the ship. How many and how big are based on ship size and electrical load. A given ship uses about 80% power to the electric engines(azipods or shaft driven. In either case the drive motors are separate and different from the ships main engines/generators) that actually move the ship. If say 1 engine blows a generator for example the ship loses that power amount. So instead of the ship generating say 10mw of power its may now only have say 8. If the ships total power usage is say 9mw the ship will brown out certain things and won't have the power available to reach normal cruising speed and still provide power for the hotel portion.
Missed this........

AKK
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