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Old 02-15-2013, 07:34 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Disfanx4 View Post
If disney is looking at this as a moneymaker, then based on what Universal does this would make more sense. You are made to feel like a second class citizen if you dont stay on property and get the front of the line perk.
Universal does use a different model, but I think that is because they have a tougher time selling their hotels. Since Universal is onlly a one or two day visit for most people, guests tend to stay elsewhere. Disney is different. People go for a week or more routinely and happily shell out big bucks to stay onsite with no expectation of special treatment. I'm not sure that offering extra fastpasses is going to drive up hotel occupancy significantly, but perhaps Disney thinks otherwise.
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:57 AM   #17
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Also how are they going to keep TSM from becoming the Le Cellier of rides. I mean it's bad now. They would have to limit fastpasses ordered online and I THINK THAT they will. Or else it's going to be months of no fastpasses for TSM and rides like it.
I also have a feeling that they will limit the number in advance, but I don't have a high confidence in it. And that WOULD make it the "Le Cellier". But I think if they offered ALL the FP+ slots up front, they'd still be gone before the day-of, because it's already got the reputation that you need to be there at rope drop and people will gobble up the FP+ slots for it and leave TOT and RNRC to chance.


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Universal does use a different model, but I think that is because they have a tougher time selling their hotels. Since Universal is onlly a one or two day visit for most people, guests tend to stay elsewhere. Disney is different. People go for a week or more routinely and happily shell out big bucks to stay onsite with no expectation of special treatment. I'm not sure that offering extra fastpasses is going to drive up hotel occupancy significantly, but perhaps Disney thinks otherwise.
They also only have three resorts, with a capacity much less than their parks, and a limit number of rides where they get the benefit, so I think the impact is much less.
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:05 AM   #18
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I keep going back and forth on the issue of more advanced FPs for those staying at deluxe versus moderate or value. Part of me thinks that deluxe guests pay more and therefore should get more perks. Isn't it that way everywhere else in terms of hotels and resorts? The other part of me thinks that it wouldn't be fair to those who can't stay in a deluxe resort. If I did not have DVC, that would definitely be me. Then again, should everything be fair? Why wouldn't a deluxe resort offer more amenities and bonuses? I can't see people feeling like they'd be second class citizens/guests just because they wouldn't get a few extra FPs. All tiers of Disney resorts are on property and with that comes special perks. It isn't like you'd be in steerage on the Titanic. You'd just get less FPs. This wouldn't prevent you from going out and enjoying the parks.

See? I told you I keep going back and forth.
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:14 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by *NikkiBell* View Post
I keep going back and forth on the issue of more advanced FPs for those staying at deluxe versus moderate or value. Part of me thinks that deluxe guests pay more and therefore should get more perks. Isn't it that way everywhere else in terms of hotels and resorts?
But everywhere else doesn't have access to 4 main parks and 2 water parks, with multiple tiers of resorts and with access shared to the public

Quote:
The other part of me thinks that it wouldn't be fair to those who can't stay in a deluxe resort. If I did not have DVC, that would definitely be me. Then again, should everything be fair? Why wouldn't a deluxe resort offer more amenities and bonuses? I can't see people feeling like they'd be second class citizens/guests just because they wouldn't get a few extra FPs. All tiers of Disney resorts are on property and with that comes special perks. It isn't like you'd be in steerage on the Titanic. You'd just get less FPs. This wouldn't prevent you from going out and enjoying the parks.

See? I told you I keep going back and forth.
I also don't see throwing an extra FP+ choice is much of a bone for the deluxe guests, either. But if they did, it would further dwindle the supply - which could mean less choices available for that one precious E-ticket the value guests get...
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:21 AM   #20
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could someone point me in the direction of the PodCast?

(never did listen to one- but think this is something my family should listen to as they cant understand what I am trying to explain)
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:37 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by *NikkiBell* View Post
I keep going back and forth on the issue of more advanced FPs for those staying at deluxe versus moderate or value. Part of me thinks that deluxe guests pay more and therefore should get more perks. Isn't it that way everywhere else in terms of hotels and resorts? The other part of me thinks that it wouldn't be fair to those who can't stay in a deluxe resort. If I did not have DVC, that would definitely be me. Then again, should everything be fair? Why wouldn't a deluxe resort offer more amenities and bonuses?
Everything isn't fair. That's just the way life works. However, I have a problem with the deluxe guests getting a perk that negatively impacts non-deluxe guests. You can give deluxe extras but not if it means taking away from others. The more FPs they give deluxe guests, the fewer there are to give everyone else. So because my family chooses to rent a 3-bedroom house in Kissimmee rather than cram ourselves into a 400 sq. ft. room at Grand Floridian (for 4 or 5 times the cost), we are not going to have the same access to rides in the parks. I'm not okay with that.
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:22 AM   #22
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I'm an advanced planner. I'm learning that it's sometimes better to be spontaneous on vacation, but I can handle booking a few rides ahead of time.

My problem is the idea that those in deluxe resorts will get an advantage over others and all onsite guests will have a huge advantage over offsite guests. I haven't heard that Disney has any problem filling their ever-expanding resorts, although I imagine the growing vacation rental industry is taking some guests away.

The biggest financial effect is for those of us with larger families. In the slow season, we can get a house with three bedrooms for just over $100 a night. If we were a family of four, we could get a room in a value resort for the same price. However, as a family of five, our cheapest option is $195 a night with the youngest in a trundle bed in Port Orleans. The cheapest deluxe is about $400. I imagine the financial effect is even greater for larger families or those who travel with extended family. I know Disney is a company focused on increasing profit, but I like to forget that when I'm enjoying the magic.
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:40 AM   #23
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Honestly. My wife and I are extreme planners. Heck, while I think it is ridiculous, I don't even complain about the 180 day ADR thing.

This however is different. While we don't know anything rock solid yet, I just see this not going well. I cannot ever comprehend that some day this may be the only way to get a fast pass. While I like to plan, it's a vacation. A vacation I'm spending a LOT of money on. I shouldn't even NEED to do this to ride a ride when I'm spending close to $100 per ticket to get into an amusement park. It scares me, LOL.

As a side note, frankly, I think the BEST thing they could do is drop fast pass completely. I can see it on a few rides I guess, but frankly, all it does is slow down already efficient stand by lines. And don't even get me started on why they feel the need to fast pass anything that is an omni mover type ride such as Peter Pan, Pooh or God forbid the Haunted Mansion. What the heck are they thinking with that?
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:44 PM   #24
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Wink

As with all Disney programs like this, there will be guests who simply don't get it.

They will be standing at the FP entry banging the magic band and screaming expletives at the top of their lungs. Holding up the lines and making it worse.

OH GOOD GRIEF.
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Old 02-15-2013, 06:14 PM   #25
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I listened to the podcast hoping to cut through all the assumptions but honestly, there was about 30 seconds of 'what we know' and the rest was just opinions, assumptions, and opinions about assumptions

I will be reserving judgement until it gets rolled out and we know about what they will do in practice (not in theory or what 'might' happen).

Now having said all that, I do understand that many people are not planners like me and especially going for the first time, you might not get that coveted fastpass and then have to wait in the regular line. BUT I could have sworn that I heard Disney would 'recommend' fastpasses for fastplus+ to you based on what you have entered in about your vacation - or did I just make this up??

And as for the whole deluxe vs. moderate vs. value perks...um absolutely you should get more perks at a moderate vs. a value or a deluxe vs. a moderate or value! You pay $500 vs. $100 for a night, you should get more perks at the resort you pay more. If you think about it, you are already getting better perks for those that stay onsite vs. offsite (where offsite usually has a lower price for a similar hotel). YET, those people that go to the parks that are not staying at an onsite resort are not treated as a different 'class' when they are in the parks. BUT they can't ship items to their resort, or enjoy extra magic hours. Disney has every right to give more benefits the more money you pay (um, concierge???) And why wouldn't Disney or any hotel or resort do this? They WANT you to spend more. If they can get you to spend more because you get more benefits, why not? I have no idea where 'class' got in this debate - it's capitalism.
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Old 02-15-2013, 06:42 PM   #26
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One of my biggest worries with FP+ (and then the eventual phasing out of regular FP) is that I wont be able to ride some of the e-tickets multiple times. We all spend alot of money to go to wdw and I wouldnt be happy with getting to ride splash, tot, etc one time per trip.

I presume standby lines for e-tickets will actually be longer because people wont have the option to get multiple fp's in one day for whatever ride they want.

So, the only way to have any chance to ride e-tickets more than once on a trip would be to make it to rope drop. With that said, I could actually see rd getting busier.
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Old 02-15-2013, 06:51 PM   #27
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If you do not schedule your Fastpass plus 60 days out I wouldn't count on the ability to get e-ticket rides. Most people scheduling fast passes are going to want an e-ticket ride. In order for Fast Pass Plus to reduce the line wait they have to limit the number of passes given out for any particular attraction. I don't see how they will be enough passes for a ride such as Toy Story Mania for every guest in every Disney hotel ( and possibly multiple passes for deluxe guests) for off site guests and then possibly some slotted for sale? At the very least at busy times getting a fast pass plus for TSM could certainly be like getting Le Cellier during free dinning.

The question now becomes how will Disney manage the availability? Let's say Disney has X amount of E Ticket fast passes held in an extra reserve for last minute travelers. How confident are you that Disney will provide those on a first come first basis? Or, do you think Disney may be more inclined provide those passes to the guests in a deluxe room ( or the 1 paying for extra fast passes) over a request from a guest in a value room? I am NOT saying that Disney will do things this way only that it could be a way that Disney could quietly implement a class system. ( whether or not a class system is a good or a bad idea is a whole other topic.)

The issue may not be "Will Deluxe guests get more passes?" It may be "Will Deluxe guests also get the majority of the e ticket fast passes?"

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Old 02-15-2013, 07:59 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Tinkerbellie16 View Post
You pay $500 vs. $100 for a night, you should get more perks at the resort you pay more.
Ah, but you already do - at the resort.

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I presume standby lines for e-tickets will actually be longer because people wont have the option to get multiple fp's in one day for whatever ride they want.
It depends on how people react in the end. Will people still ride the same thing multiple times? This could actually reduce the total number of rides the average guest gets in for a day, which would have the effect of not actually increasing the standby lines.

I can tell you that with what info we currently have, I'm less likely to ride an attraction more than once unless the standby line happens to be really short. And you know, I'm actually not that upset about it.

And given how many times Test Track and RNRC has had issues while we were in a "short" standby line, maybe not even then...

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So, the only way to have any chance to ride e-tickets more than once on a trip would be to make it to rope drop. With that said, I could actually see rd getting busier.
I think the thrill seekers will be there, but I think they are already there, trying to get their fill of rides and FPs as quickly as possible. But now, the people who see RD currently as the ONLY way to ride TSM, might actually sleep in.

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If you do not schedule your Fastpass plus 60 days out I wouldn't count on the ability to get e-ticket rides. Most people scheduling fast passes are going to want an e-ticket ride. In order for Fast Pass Plus to reduce the line wait they have to limit the number of passes given out for any particular attraction. I don't see how they will be enough passes for a ride such as Toy Story Mania for every guest in every Disney hotel ( and possibly multiple passes for deluxe guests) for off site guests and then possibly some slotted for sale? At the very least at busy times getting a fast pass plus for TSM could certainly be like getting Le Cellier during free dinning.
It will depend on whether Disney holds a reserve (making booking FP+ early more of a necessity).

But it doesn't need to be a FP+ for every guest in every resort, since they aren't all at the same park on any given day. Quick math says it's a quarter - practical numbers say it's a bit more than that for everything except AK. Then you have to deduct the percentage that doesn't plan, those that don't ride the E-tickets, etc.

But keep in mind - this is not currently something being advertised as for resort guests, but for anyone who has a ticket (in advance, obviously). Which also beings to mind...this will drive earlier, direct ticket sales for Disney when people go to make their FP+ reservations, find out they need a registered ticket first, and there is a convenient link to purchase them...


Quote:
The question now becomes how will Disney manage the availability? Let's say Disney has X amount of E Ticket fast passes held in an extra reserve for last minute travelers. How confident are you that Disney will provide those on a first come first basis? Or, do you think Disney may be more inclined provide those passes to the guests in a deluxe room ( or the 1 paying for extra fast passes) over a request from a guest in a value room? I am NOT saying that Disney will do things this way only that it could be a way that Disney could quietly implement a class system. ( whether or not a class system is a good or a bad idea is a whole other topic.)
No idea at this point. Any correlation to resorts, or deluxe resorts, etc. is just a rumor at this point, and I don't know the source to know whether it is more recent or based on very old rumors when the system was first talked about years ago (2007?)

Quote:
The issue may not be "Will Deluxe guests get more passes?" It may be "Will Deluxe guests also get the majority of the e ticket fast passes?"
If they DO give the deluxe resort guests an extra FP+, and they are tiered, I can only see it being for E-tickets (is anyone really going to need extra second-tier FP+s?), and I DO think that will severely impact supply.
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:35 PM   #29
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I have to say I am NOT okay with Deluxe getting more than Value. Value is the ONLY way my family can afford to do Disney - I would LOVE to stay at the monorail resorts, but unless I am going for 1 day, there is just no way. That being said, I also don't whine that I have this crowded and rather lame bus compared to a nice, shiny, roomier monorail - I GET that I am in a value hotel and I am okay with it. However, I paid the exact same for my ticket to get into the park as the guy staying at Bay Lake Tower and that is where my issue comes in - we both deserve the same perks at the park. Now if they offer the option to buy more and I can't afford to buy more, my problem and then I have no room to complain, but until the start offering that option, the perks for Deluxe should stick to the transportation, fancier rooms, restaurants, and better pools & lounges.

That being said I just really would like to know WHEN this FP+ is going to really start to roll! I would love to hear back from someone who has used it. I was surprised to hear in the Pod Cast that they didn't think FP- was going away and (since I obviously can't stick my wristband into an existing FP- machine) I really want to know how it works once you are in the park - can you get more like you can now with regular FP- just with your phone or new kiosk? Do you wait & hope for alerts through the app? I am going in Sept and really am okay either way if this will be rolled out, I just want to know if I need to be up at 6am 60 days out to get a FP for TSMM
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:23 PM   #30
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I have to say I am NOT okay with Deluxe getting more than Value. Value is the ONLY way my family can afford to do Disney - I would LOVE to stay at the monorail resorts, but unless I am going for 1 day, there is just no way. That being said, I also don't whine that I have this crowded and rather lame bus compared to a nice, shiny, roomier monorail - I GET that I am in a value hotel and I am okay with it. However, I paid the exact same for my ticket to get into the park as the guy staying at Bay Lake Tower and that is where my issue comes in - we both deserve the same perks at the park. Now if they offer the option to buy more and I can't afford to buy more, my problem and then I have no room to complain, but until the start offering that option, the perks for Deluxe should stick to the transportation, fancier rooms, restaurants, and better pools & lounges.

That being said I just really would like to know WHEN this FP+ is going to really start to roll! I would love to hear back from someone who has used it. I was surprised to hear in the Pod Cast that they didn't think FP- was going away and (since I obviously can't stick my wristband into an existing FP- machine) I really want to know how it works once you are in the park - can you get more like you can now with regular FP- just with your phone or new kiosk? Do you wait & hope for alerts through the app? I am going in Sept and really am okay either way if this will be rolled out, I just want to know if I need to be up at 6am 60 days out to get a FP for TSMM
No one knows _exactly_ how it will work yet, since it hasn't started yet other than tests - and we know from what Disney _has_ posted it won't work exactly how it did in the tests (test allowed for use of regular FP as well - we know this will not be the case).

The reason why regular FP won't go away, at least in the short term, is it will take time to roll out MM+/FP+, and in the meantime everyone else needs to be able to get something. But once everyone _can_ use MM+/FP+, I'm expecting regular FP to go away. Some portion of FP+ might mimic FP to some extent, but that's a guess.
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