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Old 02-14-2013, 03:36 AM   #196
LuvinLucifer
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Originally Posted by JessB320 View Post
You keep spinning your wheels that's fine. But tell me this, why are 13,000 children under 2, 3,000 of them being under 1, being reported as available and waiting to be adopted out of the foster care system. Did I just make those reports up?
Because they have special needs or are part of a sibling group. The demand is for an infant. If there were 3,000 healthy infants waiting for adoptive homes they would easily be adopted by the thousands waiting for a birth mother to choose them.

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Originally Posted by JessB320 View Post
Oh And you saying 500,000 are waiting to adopt? The very next sentence says only 100,000 had applied to adopt, and those numbers were from 1997
The study clearly shows 500,000 people are seeking to adopt. Applying is a step many don't take because it is so discouraging. It's expensive, and there aren't a lot of infants available. 200,000 were taking actual steps.

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Originally Posted by JessB320 View Post
I have no idea where you got 22,000, as YOUR same website says the average number of adoption each year through the 1990s was 120,000 a year . In 1992 again YOUR website says the number was 127,441
22,000 infants are placed for adoption a year. Birth mothers choose who they are placed with from many different potential parents. I'm not sure what is so hard to understand about the fact that a lot of people want to adopt babies, so birth moms have no shortage of people to choose from. This is why Safe Haven babies get adopted so quickly. It just isn't the same for those with severe special needs. I'm not sure what is so hard for you to understand about this. Call an adoption agency if you don't believe there are plenty of people waiting to adopt infants.
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Old 02-14-2013, 03:41 AM   #197
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Originally Posted by JessB320 View Post
WHOA, well first I don't think a newstory about the custody battle of one infant 26 years ago is a good example to start with. Second this is a quote from one person describing their one adoption agency. Third the quote is in reference to WHITE infants without mental or physical disabilities. I'm sorry but if you consider an infant that is anything other than white as special needs then that's a totally different can of worms and maybe those parents should wait
If you don't trust the NYTs over your own anecdotes I don't know what to say. The article says there is a demand for infants, especially white infants. There is still a demand for infants of all races. There are agencies that cater to people who want to adopt minorities. The point is that there is a demand for infants without special needs.
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Old 02-14-2013, 03:42 AM   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvinLucifer

Because they have special needs or are part of a sibling group. The demand is for an infant. If there were 3,000 healthy infants waiting for adoptive homes they would easily be adopted by the thousands waiting for a birth mother to choose them.

The study clearly shows 500,000 people are seeking to adopt. Applying is a step many don't take because it is so discouraging. It's expensive, and there aren't a lot of infants available. 200,000 were taking actual steps.

22,000 infants are placed for adoption a year. Birth mothers choose who they are placed with from many different potential parents. I'm not sure what is so hard to understand about the fact that a lot of people want to adopt babies, so birth moms have no shortage of people to choose from. This is why Safe Haven babies get adopted so quickly. It just isn't the same for those with severe special needs. I'm not sure what is so hard for you to understand about this. Call an adoption agency if you don't believe there are plenty of people waiting to adopt infants.
Where do you get 22,000? Your website says over 100,000

You again have no proof those 3,000 babies have special needs , you just keep saying you don't understand and so if you don't understand then they must be special needs. Show me one single report that shows the number of these babies with special needs, or the percentage of the babies that are special needs.
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Old 02-14-2013, 03:48 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by LuvinLucifer

If you don't trust the NYTs over your own anecdotes I don't know what to say. The article says there is a demand for infants, especially white infants. There is still a demand for infants of all races. There are agencies that cater to people who want to adopt minorities. The point is that there is a demand for infants without special needs.
No the point of that article was that in 1987 there was a high demand for white infants
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Old 02-14-2013, 03:50 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by JessB320 View Post
Where do you get 22,000? Your website says over 100,000

You again have no proof those 3,000 babies have special needs , you just keep saying you don't understand and so if you don't understand then they must be special needs. Show me one single report that shows the number of these babies with special needs, or the percentage of the babies that are special needs.
My proof is that there is a demand for healthy infants, so it makes no sense that there would be 3,000 healthy infants waiting in foster care. The 22,000 comes from the national council of adoption:

https://www.adoptioncouncil.org/infa.../overview.html
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Old 02-14-2013, 03:53 AM   #201
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Originally Posted by JessB320 View Post
No the point of that article was that in 1987 there was a high demand for white infants
The number of infants placed for adoption has gone down like I said, so there is now an even greater demand. This includes infants of all races.
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Old 02-14-2013, 03:56 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by LuvinLucifer

My proof is that there is a demand for healthy infants, so it makes no sense that there would be 3,000 healthy infants waiting in foster care. The 22,000 comes from the national council of adoption:

https://www.adoptioncouncil.org/infa.../overview.html
Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean its not true.

You thinking something doesn't make sense is not proof of anything, it's your opinion
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Old 02-14-2013, 04:03 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by JessB320 View Post
Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean its not true.

You thinking something doesn't make sense is not proof of anything, it's your opinion
It's not opinion that there are more people waiting to adopt than infants available. It's a reality that anyone can see by calling an adoption agency. If you want to place your child for adoption you will have access to hundreds or thousands of people to choose from. This is accelerating as the number of babies available declines:
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To be sure, the number of infant placements in the U.S. has dropped in recent decades. In the mid-1970s, as many as 49,000 American infants were placed for adoption each year. In 2007, the most recent year for which accurate numbers exist, there were an estimated 18,000 domestic newborn, non-relative adoptions.



The drop in the number of newborn adoptions since the 1970s coincides with a decline in the percentage of single mothers placing children for adoption, down from nine percent in the 1970s to 1.4 percent in 2002, according to the National Survey of Family Growth. As the stigma against single parenthood has diminished over the last 35 years, so has the number of children placed for adoption.

http://www.adoptivefamilies.com/articles.php?aid=1618
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Old 02-14-2013, 04:35 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by LuvinLucifer

It's not opinion that there are more people waiting to adopt than infants available. It's a reality that anyone can see by calling an adoption agency. If you want to place your child for adoption you will have access to hundreds or thousands of people to choose from. This is accelerating as the number of babies available declines:

http://www.adoptivefamilies.com/articles.php?aid=1618
It is your opinion that all of the infants in foster care that are available for adoption have special needs .
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:32 AM   #205
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Although this topic has veered off course, I'll chime in on the original topic. My husband and I suffered secondary infertility. We have a biological daughter and then couldn't have any more children. We adopted a healthy 1 year old through an international adoption. Although I keenly yearned for another child, when we started the process to adopt, I did feel, a tiny bit, way down deep, that newborns avaialable for adoption should go to infertile couples with no biological children first. I had already experienced the newborn period with our oldest daughter and can completely understand an infertile couple with no children wanting to raise a child from birth. I don't feel it is necessarily wrong for them to be given some preference to adopt newborns. Many disagree. I can only speak to my feelings.

Regardng the preference to adopt infants versus older waiting children, our daughter was 16 months old when we received her referral and 17 months old when we adopted her. She had a really easy transition to our family. That isn't always the case when you adopt a child who is not a newborn and we know we are fortunate that her adjustment and attachment was relatively trouble free. We have many, many friends whose adopted toddlers and older kids had very tough attachments. Attachment is a huge concern in the adoption world. Although attachment issues can happen with newborns too, older adopted kids often need therapies and parents will need to learn different parenting strategies to foster attachment and to help overcome the effects of institutionalization and/or disrupted placements prior to the child's adoption. If you haven't been exposed to attachment issues firsthand, it is difficult to understand how hard they are to experience and how big the problem can be. Attachment issues can happen with a child adopted at any age, and even with biological children sometimes, but one reason people often prefer to adopt newborns or children as young as possible is to minimize the chances of severe attachment issues, including RAD.

Finally, I have to tell you that our daughter, like her sister, is the most amazing thing that ever happened to us. We love her madly and we are humbled and grateful everyday that we have the profound pleasure of being her parents. Secondary infertility was the road that led us to her and we are still in awe that she is our daughter. How lucky we are!

Last edited by Patience; 02-14-2013 at 07:18 AM.
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:36 PM   #206
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My sources are every adoption and foster care site in the country! Any that display available children only have children with special needs for infants. Every site says to adopt a healthy infant one must foster to adopt in the hope that parental rights are revoked. If you go to any adoption agency there are already profiles of people willing and ready to adopt an infant ASAP. If you are going to defy logic and state that there are really all these healthy infants show me where they are. Seriously, I really would like to know because several people I know have been told by social workers that if they want an infant they must foster first with hopes the parental rights will be terminated or adopt one with special needs.
Thank you for being so dogmatic about this issue. You are so right! I'd love to know where this JessB320 is *finding* these healthy infants under 1 year. I wish she would show me where they are (what city,state) as I know some people in 3 states right now that are desperately trying to adopt a *healthy* baby. They are trying to go through the state (government) channel as they can't afford private adoption rates.

The government seems to be where she claims they are, but these people are being told the same story as you say above. I believe everything you have posted because their stories back it up. If JessB320 knows where these babies are, I wish she would say. I fear they are all on *paper* and she doesn't *know*.

Like you say there are too many couples out there now waiting desperately to adopt for there to be these healthy babies *ready right now* to adopt.

Again, I thank you, and would love for her to tell me a city and state and I'll get the word out.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:08 PM   #207
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I've spoken to DCFS in Florida when I was inquiring about adoption and foster care. Infants are not available unless you foster in hopes to adopt. The only children available for straight adoption are 8 years old and up. When I lived in New York they said it could be years of waiting to foster to adopt an infant.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:33 PM   #208
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I've spoken to DCFS in Florida when I was inquiring about adoption and foster care. Infants are not available unless you foster in hopes to adopt. The only children available for straight adoption are 8 years old and up. When I lived in New York they said it could be years of waiting to foster to adopt an infant.
Yep, you're right. That's the same story the family/friends that I know in different states have been getting. That's what LuvinLucifer has been trying to get across to JessB320, but she says she knows where there are *lots* of healthy infants to adopt. Would sure like to know what *hat* she's pulling them from. No one else seems to know where they are.

My niece is about to finalize papers on her 14mo. old dd (hopefully). She has been fostering her since she was 3mos. risking heartbreak at any moment. I just could not do this - would be so stressed out I couldn't stand it.

Anyway, your story is the one that seems to come from every state, if you are trying to adopt *from state*. Private adoptions are terribly expensive (and there's still a waiting list ).
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:24 PM   #209
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I am sorry if I came off as insensitive, that was definitely not my intention. I just find it hard to believe that someone who wants so badly to be a parent, only wants to adopt an infant. I feel sorry for the children out there who need homes. Once they hit a certain age, no one wants them anymore. No wonder they have problems. Through no fault of the children, the parents, or the prospective parents, there is a huge problem with the foster care system in America, and it is unfortunate.
The problem with older kids is the damage that has been done by the situations from which they were removed. My youngest daughter had a close friend who is now in the foster care system (finally! they took FAR too long with the decision to remover her and her siblings). In her 4 short years of life she's known 4 men as "dad", 2 of whom were drug addicts and 3 of whom were physically abusive to her mother. She can be a very sweet girl but she acts out in ways that will make her very, very difficult to place. She can't be around babies or animals because she will get violent in moments of frustration or jealousy, and she is prone to being physically destructive when upset (as in punching holes in drywall, throwing things hard enough to break windows, etc). And the sad part is, at this point the system is still working towards reunification with the mother who has put one abusive a-hole after another over the well being of all her (7) kids. I understand completely why even someone who desperately wants to be a parent might not be willing or able to take on the Herculean task of trying to repair the damage done to a child like that.
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:43 PM   #210
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I moderate a forum on which one of our members wants a baby but complains that pregnancy will "ruin" her body, so she either wants to adopt or use a surrogate. She came on all upset recently because an adoption agency refused to deal with her because infertility has to be the primary cause of seeking to adopt. She was told that they have so many qualified prospective adoptive parents that they don't feel like it is fair or necessary to add fertile people to the list.

Do you think this is unfair discrimination? On one hand, there are already plenty of people waiting to adopt babies, but utimately would letting a few(because it's not like this woman is the norm) fertile people try to adopt give birth parents that much more options?

I personally can't feel too sorry for this woman and would prefer to place my child with someone who adopted for less trivial reasons.
Yes, I feel it is unfair discrimination not to add qualified individuals to the list based on fertility. There are many reasons a fertile couple may choose adoption, and I think they should be given the same opportunity to do so as an infertile couple.
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