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Old 02-11-2013, 10:03 PM   #76
disEAR
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We were there jan 5-16. Did plenty of fastpass and standby. Never had this issue.
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:45 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by CKCruising View Post
The ride wait times are based on actual times through the lines with the red card. These should take into account the fast passes (unless it is right at 9:45 when they start). It seems a little off that the actual wait time is triple without some sort of ride issue.
I realize these are your experiences, but might these be the exception, rather than the norm?
Nope, they were letting 2-3 people in the standby line to 20-30 people with fast pass on the rides. I saw and experienced it with my own eyes.
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:53 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Tormania View Post
You do realize that if everyone is pushed from the stand-by line to the FP line then you haven't solved anything, all you've accomplished is rearranging the deck chairs. If they are handing out so many FP that almost everyone can use one for that window then everyone will be in the fast pass line and they might as well close the stand-by line then.

The whole point of FP was to provide a LIMITED number of passes that could be spread out across the entire day, allowing a certain number of guests the opportunity to do some other activity then return later for a shorter wait. Well if they triple the number of passes made available for a particular window then that triples the number of people in the FP line. And then if the CMs are trying to keep the FP line at a reasonable number (based on what they have been told to do) they are letting significantly more FP guests into rides then stand-by guests.

This isn't about whether the stated wait time is accurate or not because a large group of people got in line, people have said that it was taking 30+ minutes for only 4 parties to go through the stand-by line while tons and tons of FP guests were being let go. Where under normal conditions 4 parties in a standby line would almost all be on the next cycle for a ride in most circumstances. The reports from folks seem to bear this out.

I don't know if any of the Disney bloggers have historically tracked how many fastpasses are available for a given attraction but it would be nice to see how many passes are being generated now and how many in a given window. (For example say in Mar 2012 Soarin' gave out 2000 FP on a given day, 200 for each 1 hour window, then compare it to Mar 2013 and if it is giving out 6000 FP then that would help explain some of these reported issues).

Also, if Disney is not already doing this what they need to do it incorporate the known number of issued FP for a ride and include that into the Wait Time, cause they should know how many returning riders are coming back via the FP and that should always be included in the Wait Time posted for any ride.

I'm just hoping all these issues are sorted out before December and I imagine that they wil be, little comfort for folks travelling in the next few weeks and months though.

Well stated and my thoughts exactly.
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:15 AM   #79
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It sounds horribly annoying!

I would imagine the are tinkering with thresholds to get ready for My .magic + or whatever it is called. I kind of get it...obviously they have to figure things out live and some of their calculations will be off...this is a typical lower time so makes since they are testing things now. Let's just hope they autocorrect whatever formula was used for a 90 minute JC wait! Yikes!
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:20 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by disneymagicgirl View Post
Did I miss the memo that said the FP+ would be a tiered system or is that still speculation?

These line reports are stressing me out!
Iger said so at a shareholder meeting a couple of years ago. That's the ultimate goal for it. It's going to be a huge driver of additional revenue. You really think they are going to spend a BILLION dollars (yes, I sad a BILLION) and not expect a huge return on investment? Well, you don't get that return if you just issue 3 fastpasses to everybody.

Clearly what they are doing now is changing people's expectations of what fastpass and standby mean.
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:21 AM   #81
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We just got back and we noticed that some of the FP lines were much longer than usual. In particular, we had a FP for Big Thunder Mtn and when we went to get in line, it was way, way beyond the actual ride. I've never seen a FP line so long. I'd say it was well over a 30 minute wait for FP. Bizarre. I'm sure the standby line was longer but still ... clearly there were too many FPs out for that hour. There was a similar situation at Winnie the Pooh but we just went and got on something else then came back a little later in our time window. By then the FP line was almost nil. Fortunately, we had the opposite experience with standby lines. We found that most lines we stood in were shorter than the wait time posted.
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:31 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lugnut33

Iger said so at a shareholder meeting a couple of years ago. That's the ultimate goal for it. It's going to be a huge driver of additional revenue. You really think they are going to spend a BILLION dollars (yes, I sad a BILLION) and not expect a huge return on investment? Well, you don't get that return if you just issue 3 fastpasses to everybody.

Clearly what they are doing now is changing people's expectations of what fastpass and standby mean.
I don't think Iger's words are cast in granite as soon as they are uttered. While that certainly may have been a goal at that time--and may still yet be--I don't believe Iger is so inflexible as to be so beholden to a statement made years ago. He is there to make Disney a sizable profit no doubt, but I think able executives understand that goals may change as realities set in. We'll have to see, but there is nothing at the moment (aside from his statement) to suggest resort-based tiers are a given.
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:39 AM   #83
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I'm sorry, but I don't see how there won't be a tiered system. There is already some what of a tiered system with all the different options for tickets. Why would they make it any different going forward?
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:01 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by lugnut33 View Post
Iger said so at a shareholder meeting a couple of years ago. That's the ultimate goal for it. It's going to be a huge driver of additional revenue. You really think they are going to spend a BILLION dollars (yes, I sad a BILLION) and not expect a huge return on investment? Well, you don't get that return if you just issue 3 fastpasses to everybody.

Clearly what they are doing now is changing people's expectations of what fastpass and standby mean.
Agree completely. I alway shake my head a little at the responses of "Oh but it will be the same for everyone!". Um what would the point of that be from Disney's perspective? When have they ever not capitalized on an opportunity to make money? It will be a base amount of free FP+ and then you will pay to play or be given more based on some factor like resort choice, onsite vs offsite etc. They have sunk HUGE money into this. Trust me, it's not to be kind, it's to make money.

Just one persons opinion, but I'll print out this post and eat it if this isn't the evolution of Fastpass+ over the next few years.
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:11 AM   #85
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I'm not seeing how that's a problem. That just means that a greater number of people get on without a long wait.

I guess that my frame of reference is different than yours. You see, years ago, I worked for an airline. We would fly as much as we could, but it would be 'standby', which basically meant that we got to have a nice trip if there was room left over on the airplane. Many times, this means that we waited around all day (or more) as flight after flight would leave without room for us.

I believe that they are going to this methodology with the new FP+ system. Standby need not be where most guests go to ride the ride. FP need to be a perq for a limited number of people. The system can possibly be expanded to allow guests to get a FP for most rides that they want to ride. If they want to ride a ride more than once, they can hop into the SB and take their chances.
Perhaps my explanation was lacking so I will give it another go, I'll take the blame on this one.

Let's take Soarin' and lets say that under normal circumstances that the rider capacity is 2000 guests/hr. So 1000 people get through in 30 minutes. Now we add in the concept of Fastpasses over the last decade. So if 1800 people are in the stand-by line for about an hour wait, let's say that 200 people are able to use FP for that same hour. So a total of 2000 people are now in line for Soarin'. The FP guests are shuttled through the ride more quickly then the stand-by guests and experience significantly shorter wait times. But the entire 2000 guests are still moved through the ride within 1 hour. But the benefit of the FP was that those guests experienced a wait of less than 15 minutes. And we can all agree that is the #1 reason we like to use FP, so we avoid the 1 hour wait and can get on in under 15 minutes.

But this ONLY works if that out of every 2000 guests in line, ONLY 200 have FP, they reap the benefit of the FP as expected. But let's change it up and allow 1000 guests to use FP for that same hour window. And I'll even grant you that all of the new FP users came from the stand-by line so that line is now only 1000 guests, so we still have a 2000 guests for the hour. The wait time for FP has now increased as there are 5X as many guests in the FP line. But for the stand-by folks what should have been a 30 minute wait (only 1000 stand-by guests in line) now becomes 60 minutes as there are too many FP guests being served AND they get first rights to get on the rides per the CMs.

So the stand-by guests are getting false information on wait times in this circumstance, and that is taking into account that ALL of the new FP guests all came from the standy-by line. But imagine that from the first example that there are still 1800 people in the standy-by line and then you add in 1000 FP guests as well. Well for the stand-by folks what was close to an hour wait would become 90 minutes because of all the FP guests.

You can see that as you add more and more FP guests that not only does it make the wait for FP longer that it really negatively impacts the wait time for the stand-by line. And folks look at wait times to decide if they want to grab a FP to come back and ride later or are they willing to get in the stand-by line now because the wait time is short.

Now if we change to what you like which is give everyone a FP then lets move all 2000 guests to the FP line. Now what does this accomplish? It makes the FP wait now 1 hour long and that's if you aren't also trying to get some standy-by guests on the ride. Which begs the question, what is the point of giving everyone a FP when the same wait time can be acheived if FP is completely eliminated and everyone is back in the stand-by line with the same 1 hour wait time.

To me it's really not a complicated mathematical problem, basic managment science really. But like the DDP made ADRs required in order to eat someplace (no more walkins), if they dramatically increase the number of FP issued then the very same problem will now spill over to all the attractions. I can safely assume that the vast majority of guests will hate it.
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:20 AM   #86
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Disney has found that in order for a guest to feel like they have gotten their money's worth, they need to experience 10-12 attractions in a day. If they only allow 3 FP+ per guest, and the wait times are truly 45-90 minutes even for B level attractions, it is going to be very difficult for people to see enough attractions to be satisfied, and still have time to spend money on food and souvenirs. The guest had better be skilled at using regular Fastpass in addition to FP+, and lets be honest, a lot if guests aren't. Since the whole point is to improve guest satisfaction and get them to spend more money, Disney had better work hard to figure out that sweet spot.
I thought from everything I have heard, that they would be mutually exclusive. You can use one or the other, not both. And the number of regular FP would be diminished in order to coerce everyone to use FP+
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:43 AM   #87
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As many have said, Disney is trying to make money. That makes perfect sense. But they also are in the business of customer satisfaction, which is something they have always done very well. I am at the point where my son is now a teen, so if we make a return visit, I will want a relaxed experience. I do not have any desire to work my behind off anymore to get the most out of my vacation. I did that many times and now I would like to use my experience to visit this place which has become very familiar to me. If I am going to have to learn all about the new hoops to jump through just so we can ride some rides I may not bother. KWIM? I feel the same way in my job. I have been at it long enough that I am not going to go back to college to learn some new lingo which basically means the same as the old stuff I am familiar with. So, I guess I am saying Disney needs to make this transition painless for us veterans or they may just lose some fans.
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:59 AM   #88
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As many have said, Disney is trying to make money. That makes perfect sense. But they also are in the business of customer satisfaction, which is something they have always done very well. I am at the point where my son is now a teen, so if we make a return visit, I will want a relaxed experience. I do not have any desire to work my behind off anymore to get the most out of my vacation. I did that many times and now I would like to use my experience to visit this place which has become very familiar to me. If I am going to have to learn all about the new hoops to jump through just so we can ride some rides I may not bother. KWIM? I feel the same way in my job. I have been at it long enough that I am not going to go back to college to learn some new lingo which basically means the same as the old stuff I am familiar with. So, I guess I am saying Disney needs to make this transition painless for us veterans or they may just lose some fans.
I totally understand what you mean. I have no desire to plan the fun right out of my vacation. I am going to give Disney the benefit of the doubt on this one and hope that the whole experience won't be miserable and that there will still be the element of wonder and discovery that we've come to know and love. But it is concerning to those of us who just don't want to do any more planning.
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Old 02-12-2013, 11:01 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by lugnut33 View Post
I'm sorry, but I don't see how there won't be a tiered system. There is already some what of a tiered system with all the different options for tickets. Why would they make it any different going forward?
I am not disagreeing with you that this may be in the cards, but to say that it "will be based on which resort category you stay in" is a bit bold at this point in my opinion.

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Old 02-12-2013, 11:12 AM   #90
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I just got back from a 4 day trip. I was there for cheerleading Nationals, so we spent very little time in the parks, I found the times to be accurate or even overstated.

HM, stated 30, prob waited 25
Buzz, stated 45, prob waited 20
BTMRR, stated 40, waited 20
POTC, stated 20, waited 20

Glad I had this experience instead of OP's problem. I would NOT be happy waiting a lot longer than the stated times!
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