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Old 02-11-2013, 10:38 AM   #46
dadddio
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Originally Posted by BEARCATS07 View Post
I know there have been reports that they have been trying to enforce the FP return time. For those of you that are there now or have been in the past several weeks is this still the case(I hope they are)? Also seems weird that they are giving out that many FP to make wait time be that far off.
It's possible that the ride went down earlier in the day and a bunch of people got FPs for their trouble, although I suspect that it is just a function of stale data from the 'card' system of checking wait times.
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:44 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by dadddio View Post
You still have other options. You could use a non-phone wireless device such as an ipod touch or you can use the in-park kiosks.
I was referring to being stuck in a stand by line and being able to change your FP+'s because the stand by wait time was off and not being able to make your FP+'s time. We also do not own a wireless device that can be carried into the park...laptop is all we own that is wireless...and our phones do not conntect to the internet. Yes, I know there are very few of us of kind still around. In this case, a in-park kiosks will be of little help if I am in a stand by line when I am due to be using my FP+'s. Unless if you do not use your FP+ then they will give the credit back to you.

Anyone have any ideas what would happen to your FP+ if you don't show up? Will they give it back to you?
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:00 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by mom2mickeyfan View Post

Anyone have any ideas what would happen to your FP+ if you don't show up? Will they give it back to you?
I'm not sure how that would even work. You pick your FP+ rides ahead of time, and at least when we did the test you could only use them in one park per day. I would think they are just like a normal FP. You don't use it, you lose it.
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:40 AM   #49
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I'm not sure how that would even work. You pick your FP+ rides ahead of time, and at least when we did the test you could only use them in one park per day. I would think they are just like a normal FP. You don't use it, you lose it.
That is kind of what my thinking was also but really had no idea. The difference is with the old FP, you could grab another anytime you were allowed and would work for you but with FP+ you MAY be limited to only 3 per day. How much complaint would there be to lose one of those because you are stuck in a standby line that had a 20 minute wait allowing you time to get to your FP+ and turned into an hour long standby wait making you miss your FP+. Even if you had the means to change it while in the standby line, you may find that the ride you missed didn't have any more FP+'s to pick from.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:46 PM   #50
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The ride wait times are based on actual times through the lines with the red card. These should take into account the fast passes (unless it is right at 9:45 when they start). It seems a little off that the actual wait time is triple without some sort of ride issue.
I realize these are your experiences, but might these be the exception, rather than the norm?
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:10 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by CKCruising View Post
The ride wait times are based on actual times through the lines with the red card. These should take into account the fast passes (unless it is right at 9:45 when they start). It seems a little off that the actual wait time is triple without some sort of ride issue.
I realize these are your experiences, but might these be the exception, rather than the norm?
They are based on actual wait times as you decribe, but these times are already very stale by the time that the data is collected.

Look at it this way, you get in a short line and are given the red card. Ten minutes later, you get to the front of the line and they update the wait as 'ten minutes'. In that ten minutes, 2000 people got in the line (because the parade ended). The wait is now 75 minutes, but I don't realize that when I get in the line because the wait time sign had only just now been updated to 'ten minutes'. In my example, the data was ten minutes old. If your wait to get on the ride was longer, then the data used to update the sign would be that much more stale.
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:21 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by dadddio View Post
They are based on actual wait times as you decribe, but these times are already very stale by the time that the data is collected.

Look at it this way, you get in a short line and are given the red card. Ten minutes later, you get to the front of the line and they update the wait as 'ten minutes'. In that ten minutes, 2000 people got in the line (because the parade ended). The wait is now 75 minutes, but I don't realize that when I get in the line because the wait time sign had only just now been updated to 'ten minutes'. In my example, the data was ten minutes old. If your wait to get on the ride was longer, then the data used to update the sign would be that much more stale.
I realize the system isn't perfect, but these situations were not the result of a huge influx of people and old line data. with JC, you can see how many people are in line, and it looked like a 20 minute line as said. However, the skewed ratio of FP to standby made it so much longer. You could see it happening. Also, since it was only 11:00 when we got in line and people continuously boarded, it didn't seem to be an issue with a breakdown.

Now, our experience at Space Mtn. could have been due to an earlier breakdown leading to way too many FPers as that was late in the day. We weren't there previously to know if they'd had problems.

Regardless of the cause, this was a problem on this trip, where it has never been a problem for us before. Since lines have been tallied with red cards for most of our visits, I think it's a new issue.

This post was just to share that this is something that is happening. It didn't ruin our trip or anything (this was one of our best trips ever---perfect weather, great service, lots of frozen yummy drinks). I don't necessarily think this is an epidemic, but for me, I will tell friends not to ride headliners standby until the whole FP transition phase is over.
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:43 PM   #53
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We just got back yesterday as well, after being there for 8 days. The crowds were DEFINITELY HIGHER than they have been in years passed.

We saw the same thing as the OP with the FP's. We got to Epcot at opening last Tuesday and went straight to TT. My DH, DD7 and in laws got in the standby line (while I obtained a Rider Swap pass and stayed with my too small twins), the posted time was 40 minutes. They came out nearly 2 hours later. I kept expecting them to come out of that exit and they never did. Not the best way to start our day! By the time we got over to Soarin, the posted wait time was 120 minutes. That seems CRAZY!!

MK was another place we had major wait time problems. Not to mention, Ariel was down at least half of the time, as was Space. That doesn't usually bother me so much but not truly being able to tell how long we will be somewhere was. When you have ADR's, it's difficult when you aren't sure if the 30 minute posted wait time is actually going to end up being an hour AND 30 minutes.

Concerned here for sure.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:16 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadddio View Post
They are based on actual wait times as you decribe, but these times are already very stale by the time that the data is collected.

Look at it this way, you get in a short line and are given the red card. Ten minutes later, you get to the front of the line and they update the wait as 'ten minutes'. In that ten minutes, 2000 people got in the line (because the parade ended). The wait is now 75 minutes, but I don't realize that when I get in the line because the wait time sign had only just now been updated to 'ten minutes'. In my example, the data was ten minutes old. If your wait to get on the ride was longer, then the data used to update the sign would be that much more stale.
This can be somewhat cleaned up with a rolling time for the cards. From what I recall (since my kids seem to always get handed a card), they swipe the card as they hand it to you and then swipe it again when they take it from you. That time is then displayed as the current wait time.

However, with a simple modification of the system (assuming they don't already do this) the wait times could be more accurate.

Let's say we get in line, as you described, following some event and the wait time is displayed as 10 minutes. We are mid-pack in the group that rushes the line. The CM hands my kid a card after swiping it at 2:05pm (as an example). Once the time passes 2:15pm they need to immediately start adjusting the wait time. If it is 2:35pm and we are still in line and haven't reached the end to have the card swiped, the wait time should still be adjusted to 30 minutes since they know I have been in line for 30 minutes SO FAR. With every 5 minutes that pass, the wait time needs to be adjusted (I have only seen 5 minute intervals displayed).

The one problem is if someone hides their card at the end swipe point just to skew the times. This could possibly be overcome by simply using the next card's time when it is swiped at the end point overriding the previous cards' time.

Another method could be to install RFID reader at the beginning and at the end of the standby queues once the MagicBands are in use. This would provide a true rolling wait time for each and every person in the line.

Just a few thoughts.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:30 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadddio View Post
They are based on actual wait times as you decribe, but these times are already very stale by the time that the data is collected.

Look at it this way, you get in a short line and are given the red card. Ten minutes later, you get to the front of the line and they update the wait as 'ten minutes'. In that ten minutes, 2000 people got in the line (because the parade ended). The wait is now 75 minutes, but I don't realize that when I get in the line because the wait time sign had only just now been updated to 'ten minutes'. In my example, the data was ten minutes old. If your wait to get on the ride was longer, then the data used to update the sign would be that much more stale.
Last September we got in line for the princesses at town hall because it said a 25 minute wait. (I'd have to say about 10:30 because my DS appt. at Harmony was 10:00). We thought wonderful - 25 minutes to meet Rapunzel. I was handed the red card to retime. We ended up waiting an hour and 15 minutes! So of course after us the stand by time was updated. And like another poster said - they would take 1 or 2 stand by groups then empty out the fast past line and then 1 or 2 stand by's and so on.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:32 PM   #56
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This has been a suspicion of many for months now. Standby estimates that far off (and not in your favor) may even be worth a visit to Guest Relations to relay your experience.
I agree. They will never know unless you politely tell them...I'd give them a call as well.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:59 PM   #57
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We were there the last week of January and thankfully the posted wait times were pretty accurate for us. The only time we had an unexpected wait was for Soarin using a FP. We ended up waiting 35 minutes to ride, which was a bit more than we had anticipated. It all worked out okay (we had a flight to catch), but that was a crazy slow line.

I did notice a few things interesting. I was surprised that FP we not running out as fast as I remember. There were times that I expected FP to be either all gone or with return times late into the evening, but they were not. With the exception of TTMM and Soarin, FP return times were about an hour out.

I also noticed that there are RFID readers on non-fastpass rides. I assume these are the Fastpass+ readers I've been reading about. I know I saw one on It's a Small World. I also remember seeing them on other non-fastpass rides but I can't recall which specific ones. My guess is that Fastpass+ will have a limit on the number of fast passes you can get in a day as well as increasing the number of rides that have fast pass. Perhaps this is info already known, but I was surprised to see the RFID equipment on Its a Small World.

My warning to people is to adjust your perception of lines based on the time of day. In the morning at Pooh, the standby line moves quickly. Once Fastpass kicks in, it moves much more slowly. With fast pass, it is impossible to judge standby lines by visual cues. The only time you can judge is in the first hour or two of the day.
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:02 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by dadddio View Post
That being said, I don't for a moment see the problem as a FP+ thing or a problem with how they are issuing FPs or merging FP guests with the standby line. The only issue I see here is that the given wait time is incorrect. To me, this just highlights a known proble with how they determine line wait times. The problem with this method has always been that the data is stale by the time that it is retrieved as it only tells you how long a preious line-waiter had to stand in line. It is not completely helpful to know that the person who got on the ride ten minutes ago had to wait an hour because you have no idea how much the line has changed in the intervening 70 minutes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CKCruising View Post
The ride wait times are based on actual times through the lines with the red card. These should take into account the fast passes (unless it is right at 9:45 when they start). It seems a little off that the actual wait time is triple without some sort of ride issue.
I realize these are your experiences, but might these be the exception, rather than the norm?
Quote:
Originally Posted by goherdibg View Post
This can be somewhat cleaned up with a rolling time for the cards. From what I recall (since my kids seem to always get handed a card), they swipe the card as they hand it to you and then swipe it again when they take it from you. That time is then displayed as the current wait time.

However, with a simple modification of the system (assuming they don't already do this) the wait times could be more accurate.

Let's say we get in line, as you described, following some event and the wait time is displayed as 10 minutes. We are mid-pack in the group that rushes the line. The CM hands my kid a card after swiping it at 2:05pm (as an example). Once the time passes 2:15pm they need to immediately start adjusting the wait time. If it is 2:35pm and we are still in line and haven't reached the end to have the card swiped, the wait time should still be adjusted to 30 minutes since they know I have been in line for 30 minutes SO FAR. With every 5 minutes that pass, the wait time needs to be adjusted (I have only seen 5 minute intervals displayed).

The one problem is if someone hides their card at the end swipe point just to skew the times. This could possibly be overcome by simply using the next card's time when it is swiped at the end point overriding the previous cards' time.

Another method could be to install RFID reader at the beginning and at the end of the standby queues once the MagicBands are in use. This would provide a true rolling wait time for each and every person in the line.

Just a few thoughts.
This seems to be the most logical route for the system. Even if they don't read every chip that goes through, it would take away some human error. Of course that leaves plenty of room for computer error....

Ultimately, I don't see a problem here with too many FPs or FP+ only the reporting of wait times.
If they are issuing too many FPs, then that should be reflected in the posted Standby wait times.
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:28 PM   #59
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I realize the system isn't perfect, but these situations were not the result of a huge influx of people and old line data. with JC, you can see how many people are in line, and it looked like a 20 minute line as said. However, the skewed ratio of FP to standby made it so much longer. You could see it happening.
My point is still valid. Regardless of whether those 2000 people were standing in the SB line or scheduled for the FP line, they were 'in' line and hit after the person with the card got in line.
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:31 PM   #60
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My point is still valid. Regardless of whether those 2000 people were standing in the SB line or scheduled for the FP line, they were 'in' line and hit after the person with the card got in line.
I disagree as the number of fastpasses is supposed to be an accounted for known and reflected in the wait times posted.
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