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Old 02-09-2013, 12:08 PM   #181
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I was a single mom, with two kids. My ex was really good about his weekend visits. BUT....there were some times that he wasn't able to come out and get he kids. And he didn't much care about whether or not it was an issue for me. If I had made plans, I then had to cancel them at the last minute. After being the sole adult for the week, I looked forward to some time to myself, or with my friends.
So, I can understand your dil's position. Yes, your ds is doing what he can do, but it is his responsibility to provide for the kids during the weekends...not yours. You have other children that you are responsible for. They are your primary concern now, not your grandchildren. The grandkids are your ds's responsibility. Perhaps you can get the girls on Friday night and your ds can make arrangements for someone to watch them if he has to work and you have to drive to show choir stuff.

But in all reality, it isn't your issue. Yes, you can try to help, but ds must take the lead here. It is between him and his 'ex'.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:20 PM   #182
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For me, this is all about personal responsibility. And, with responsibility, there just is no middle ground.

Sorry...

If I am correct, this man has had plenty enough time to 'get his life together'. Either one decides early on... as in the moment one becomes a parent... that one will be responsible and make the effort and make the tough choices... or not.

This is just NOT what is happening here.

I know people who who now have adult children, and NONE of them have learned to take on that responsibility. The man was very much like the son... Always wanting to take off for a better job... this... that... one excuse and useless goose-chase after another.

Him commuting back and forth while his children and family are left hanging to cover and pick-up the pieces is just not the answer.

I am not just 'bashing' here.
Seriously.
Just calling the facts as the seem to be.

Sorry, but you have two kids here with neither parent being able to provide a secure family home. And, you have two grandparents, who seem to be enabling the whole on-again, off-again, situation.

When it comes to kids who need a home and parents... When it comes to personal responsibility, there really are no choices... only excuses.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:39 PM   #183
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Over 80% of divorces are started by the spouse getting used and/or abused. She asked for the separation because she was the one getting used in the marriage.

If he took this great job while she was living with his grandmother, then I would expect her to move back with her parents. Why would she stay there? If he took the great job after she left, then it appears he wanted his freedom and this may be exactly why she left to begin with.

A man who is supporting his family puts a roof over their head, not his grandmothers roof.

At the wrestling match he has other watching his kids. It seems like a pattern with him.

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Originally Posted by luvsJack View Post
He is making 3 to 4 times as much money as he was and is able to support his family.
Minimum wage is $7.25/hour. 3-4 times is $21.75 - $29/hour. A 40 hour a week job is $45K - $60K. He can afford an apartment, even in his home town, for his wife and girls. That should be a nice apartment in a place with no jobs.


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Originally Posted by hellow View Post
It's wierd, but fairly few of you see that he is working to provide for her and the kids. She has ample support from both families (which is pretty rare in this day and age). I understand her wanting to have some free time, but thanks to him working, she has enough money to spend a weekend at a concert, not have to work herself to put food on the table. Considering how many dead beat dads there are out there, I have a tendency to give credit where credit is due here.

The son needs to make some changes for sure, but maybe a lot of you don't want to see what he IS doing, you just see what he ISN'T doing.
She is sure living high on the hog. That car she drives, wait &. She has no car and when she does drive it is her parents car! That roof over her head he is supplying, wait&.. it belongs to her parents. The food on the table could be paid for by her parents, him or both. So what great thing is he doing?


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Originally Posted by luvsJack View Post
and I have already said about4 times that he has already cancelled for that weekend. Do you people read at all or just jump to conclusions?
He has only canceled wrestling. That is Saturday night. Maybe she wants to leave on Friday and have a weekend away.

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The grandmother and son set that system up though, not the mother.
Bingo!!!! As another has already said, the OPs problem should be with her flighty son and not her soon-to-be-ex DIL.

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I think some of you seriously need to take your man-hating googles off. The OP's son is doing the best he can. He is the sole provider for his family, and he has to work to earn enough to be able to support two households; his apartment and food where he works, and food and shelter for his daughters and their mother. Whether you like it or not, wrestling provides additional income for him to be able to provide for his family.
He is not providing this. Her parents are. I will give them a for doing something their "dad" has never been able to do. His grandmother gets a too.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:43 PM   #184
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While I would not be quite so 'pointed'...
I have to say that I am seeing it the way that the above poster has posted.

The DIL could make out pretty darned good right now, with the right lawyer, and the lions-share percentage of this so-called good job being garnished into her personal checking account to support this man's children.
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:49 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by Wishing on a star View Post
While I would not be quite so 'pointed'...
I have to say that I am seeing it the way that the above poster has posted.

The DIL could make out pretty darned good right now, with the right lawyer, and the lions-share percentage of this so-called good job being garnished into her personal checking account to support this man's children.
She could get off her tuffet and get a job to help support the children she helped create, like millions of other single mothers do. She chose to leave a marriage without a game plan for success for her family. Her game plan was to go home to Mom & Dad. His game plan, when he found himself as a single parent, was to move somewhere where he had a job that had a higher wage to try to support his family.

This exact situation could play out even if they were still living as a family. My husband was military for most of our marriage. I have been a parent for 18 years and for the first 13 of that I could have described myself as a "single parent half the time" because he was literally away from home for nearly half of those 13 years. Sometimes plans had to be changed because he deployed or went on course on short notice. It happens. I and millions of other military spouses deal/dealt with it every day.

The reality is that while he should make arrangements for child care in his absence if the informal, verbal agreement is that he has the children on the weekends, it would behoove her to have a backup plan in case he has to work on this super important concert weekend. So should he. If his livelihood depends on him working on that particular Saturday there isn't much he can do about it. If she wants to continue to have disposable income to go out of town for a concert then she is just going to have to make sure she has other arrangements in place. Exactly the way she would have had to if they still lived together and he suddenly had to work overtime.
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Old 02-09-2013, 01:57 PM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FayeW View Post
She could get off her tuffet and get a job to help support the children she helped create, like millions of other single mothers do. She chose to leave a marriage without a game plan for success for her family. Her game plan was to go home to Mom & Dad. His game plan, when he found himself as a single parent, was to move somewhere where he had a job that had a higher wage to try to support his family.

This exact situation could play out even if they were still living as a family. My husband was military for most of our marriage. I have been a parent for 18 years and for the first 13 of that I could have described myself as a "single parent half the time" because he was literally away from home for nearly half of those 13 years. Sometimes plans had to be changed because he deployed or went on course on short notice. It happens. I and millions of other military spouses deal/dealt with it every day.

The reality is that while he should make arrangements for child care in his absence if the informal, verbal agreement is that he has the children on the weekends, it would behoove her to have a backup plan in case he has to work on this super important concert weekend. So should he. If his livelihood depends on him working on that particular Saturday there isn't much he can do about it. If she wants to continue to have disposable income to go out of town for a concert then she is just going to have to make sure she has other arrangements in place. Exactly the way she would have had to if they still lived together and he suddenly had to work overtime.
Exactly!
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:01 PM   #187
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On a side note, I am mightily amused by the fact that here on the DIS we have what I believe to be a disproportionate number of SAHMs, many of whom have a husband who works ridiculously long hours at one, two, or in a few cases, 3 jobs to support their family while wife stays home with the kids. I suck at internet stalking so I don't know if any of those people replied on this thread, but I am struck bythe irony that a father working so much that he never sees his children doesn't seem to be a concern for them, but the OP's son is bashed for daring to work out of town and work overtime to do what he can to support his family.

Guess it doesn't matter if Dad never sees his kids, as long as the marriage is intact.
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:02 PM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FayeW View Post
She could get off her tuffet and get a job to help support the children she helped create, like millions of other single mothers do. She chose to leave a marriage without a game plan for success for her family. Her game plan was to go home to Mom & Dad. His game plan, when he found himself as a single parent, was to move somewhere where he had a job that had a higher wage to try to support his family.

This exact situation could play out even if they were still living as a family. My husband was military for most of our marriage. I have been a parent for 18 years and for the first 13 of that I could have described myself as a "single parent half the time" because he was literally away from home for nearly half of those 13 years. Sometimes plans had to be changed because he deployed or went on course on short notice. It happens. I and millions of other military spouses deal/dealt with it every day.

The reality is that while he should make arrangements for child care in his absence if the informal, verbal agreement is that he has the children on the weekends, it would behoove her to have a backup plan in case he has to work on this super important concert weekend. So should he. If his livelihood depends on him working on that particular Saturday there isn't much he can do about it. If she wants to continue to have disposable income to go out of town for a concert then she is just going to have to make sure she has other arrangements in place. Exactly the way she would have had to if they still lived together and he suddenly had to work overtime.
The truth of the matter is that we don't know why the marriage broke up, and I doubt even the OP really knows why. She knows her son's side of the story. It takes 2 to tango, and I am sure, from what I am reading, that both of the main players here are quite immature.

What really needs to happen is these 2 adults need to get a formal custody/visitation agreement, and they need to handle their own business, not rely on the OP to handle it. The OP needs to force them to grow up by extricating herself from the whole situation. The way I see it both are immature and irresponsible. They had a child they couldn't financially or emotionally support and then they compounded that mistake by having another.

Her tag line should be, "I love my grandchildren, and I love spending time with them, but I am not their parent, they are not my responsibility. I am willing to help out if and when it is convenient for me, but they are your responsibility, and I am no longer going to be the intermediary in your conflict."

The OP needs to worry about raising her minor child that still needs parenting, and let the adults parent their own children.
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:06 PM   #189
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The husband had to leave the area. The op said that there are no jobs in the area, so perhaps she can't find a job just like the dad... Only on the is are sahms treated like lesser beings

Lol, and ftr I make as much working pt as dh does working ft. So I'm not in the slacker club...
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:09 PM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FayeW View Post
She could get off her tuffet and get a job to help support the children she helped create, like millions of other single mothers do. She chose to leave a marriage without a game plan for success for her family. Her game plan was to go home to Mom & Dad. His game plan, when he found himself as a single parent, was to move somewhere where he had a job that had a higher wage to try to support his family.

This exact situation could play out even if they were still living as a family. My husband was military for most of our marriage. I have been a parent for 18 years and for the first 13 of that I could have described myself as a "single parent half the time" because he was literally away from home for nearly half of those 13 years. Sometimes plans had to be changed because he deployed or went on course on short notice. It happens. I and millions of other military spouses deal/dealt with it every day.

The reality is that while he should make arrangements for child care in his absence if the informal, verbal agreement is that he has the children on the weekends, it would behoove her to have a backup plan in case he has to work on this super important concert weekend. So should he. If his livelihood depends on him working on that particular Saturday there isn't much he can do about it. If she wants to continue to have disposable income to go out of town for a concert then she is just going to have to make sure she has other arrangements in place. Exactly the way she would have had to if they still lived together and he suddenly had to work overtime.
While your DH was deployed, did you live at his grandmother's home or did you live in the home your DH's income provided?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FayeW View Post
On a side note, I am mightily amused by the fact that here on the DIS we have what I believe to be a disproportionate number of SAHMs, many of whom have a husband who works ridiculously long hours at one, two, or in a few cases, 3 jobs to support their family while wife stays home with the kids. I suck at internet stalking so I don't know if any of those people replied on this thread, but I am struck bythe irony that a father working so much that he never sees his children doesn't seem to be a concern for them, but the OP's son is bashed for daring to work out of town and work overtime to do what he can to support his family.

Guess it doesn't matter if Dad never sees his kids, as long as the marriage is intact.
There does seem to be a huge number of SAHMs on the DIS. I am not one of them. If the dad was working three jobs and the mom and kids were living with her parents while he played on his time off, I would comment the same way.

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The truth of the matter is that we don't know why the marriage broke up, and I doubt even the OP really knows why. She knows her son's side of the story. It takes 2 to tango, and I am sure, from what I am reading, that both of the main players here are quite immature.

What really needs to happen is these 2 adults need to get a formal custody/visitation agreement, and they need to handle their own business, not rely on the OP to handle it. The OP needs to force them to grow up by extricating herself from the whole situation. The way I see it both are immature and irresponsible. They had a child they couldn't financially or emotionally support and then they compounded that mistake by having another.

Her tag line should be, "I love my grandchildren, and I love spending time with them, but I am not their parent, they are not my responsibility. I am willing to help out if and when it is convenient for me, but they are your responsibility, and I am no longer going to be the intermediary in your conflict."

The OP needs to worry about raising her minor child that still needs parenting, and let the adults parent their own children.
Bingo
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:10 PM   #191
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The husband had to leave the area. The op said that there are no jobs in the area, so perhaps she can't find a job just like the dad... Only on the is are sahms treated like lesser beings

Lol, and ftr I make as much working pt as dh does working ft. So I'm not in the slacker club...
Who said anything about SAHMs being lesser beings, or anything about a slacker club?
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:13 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FayeW View Post
On a side note, I am mightily amused by the fact that here on the DIS we have what I believe to be a disproportionate number of SAHMs, many of whom have a husband who works ridiculously long hours at one, two, or in a few cases, 3 jobs to support their family while wife stays home with the kids. I suck at internet stalking so I don't know if any of those people replied on this thread, but I am struck bythe irony that a father working so much that he never sees his children doesn't seem to be a concern for them, but the OP's son is bashed for daring to work out of town and work overtime to do what he can to support his family.

Guess it doesn't matter if Dad never sees his kids, as long as the marriage is intact.
As an aside and off topic, I agree. An absentee parent is an absentee parent regardless of whether it is an intact marriage, or not. Whether the parents are married or not if you have a parent that is constantly disappointing a child by not showing up when the child expects you, the impact is the same.
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:16 PM   #193
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Quote:
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Who said anything about SAHMs being lesser beings, or anything about a slacker club?
It was a constant topic a couple of days ago. Lol, still steaming a bit about it, lol!
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:20 PM   #194
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Quote:
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As an aside and off topic, I agree. An absentee parent is an absentee parent regardless of whether it is an intact marriage, or not. Whether the parents are married or not if you have a parent that is constantly disappointing a child by not showing up when the child expects you, the impact is the same.
I agree. Kids need their parents if at all possible. My dad lived several states away so we saw him a couple of times a year. It stunk and it has taken a lifetime to make the relationship we have now. My mom couldn't have made it without both sets of my grandparents so I've tried to say that the op is important, but that is time she turned the reigns over to her son. He needs to be a dad.
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:22 PM   #195
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While your DH was deployed, did you live at his grandmother's home or did you live in the home your DH's income provided?
Depends. We lived in base housing for a couple of years at the last posting, and I was a SAHM then. When that no longer worked for our family financially, I got a part-time job, then a full time job. The last few years of his military career we lived in a home that OUR income provided. See how that works? You want a home of your own, you work to provide it. If one income won't do it, then you either stay where you can live on one income (i.e, OP's DIL living with her daughters at her parent's house) or you get a J.O.B. to provide a better living situation for your family.

If OP's son, DIL and their children are satisfied with the living arrangements, swell. But don't bash the OP's son for not being man enough or mature enough to put a roof over his family's head when he is doing what he can, and then give her a pass while she is not contributing to the family income in order to change the situation. Fair is fair.
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