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Old 02-06-2013, 12:23 PM   #1
castleview
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And the Boy Scouts punt

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/07/us...n-on-gays.html

Maybe the national office should follow the lead of its volunteers who have already denounced and ignored the ban on gay scouts and leaders. Trying not to read into it, but wondering if they are holding out because they are overturning it and know there will be an exodus among the people too concerned with other people's sex lives. Thoughts?
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:41 PM   #2
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If they are going to do away with the ban, I don't see that it makes a difference when they do it. If people are going to leave, then they're going to leave.

I don't really see what there is to deliberate. Either the BSA is going to condone bigotry or they aren't. I don't know what is going to change in three months time.
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:15 PM   #3
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Or maybe they know that just because some think everyone agrees they should end the ban, there are a whole lot of people who don't think that way. Think back to the Chick-Fil-A dust-up. There is a clear divide on this issue.
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:25 PM   #4
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I believe

it is 100% about money. They are losing a ton of corporate funding right now. However, if they change their stance, many, many churches have threatened to pull support at the local level. A great deal of scouts are sponsored by conservative groups and upsetting them isn't good for their pocketbook either.

I think they just need time to crunch numbers and see which would give them more profit.
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:03 PM   #5
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I hope this is just over logistics and the ban will come to an end. There is no reason this should upset those from conservative regions. This would only give more freedom to individual groups, so a troup chartered by an LDS church and Unitarian church could set different standards in accordance to their beliefs.
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:04 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by zoemurr View Post
it is 100% about money. They are losing a ton of corporate funding right now. However, if they change their stance, many, many churches have threatened to pull support at the local level. A great deal of scouts are sponsored by conservative groups and upsetting them isn't good for their pocketbook either.

I think they just need time to crunch numbers and see which would give them more profit.
Agreed...
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:11 PM   #7
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How much does it cost to sponsor a troop? My dad actually said he would help out a troop if they lost their church sponsorship.
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:12 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by LuvinLucifer View Post
I hope this is just over logistics and the ban will come to an end. There is no reason this should upset those from conservative regions. This would only give more freedom to individual groups, so a troup chartered by an LDS church and Unitarian church could set different standards in accordance to their beliefs.
Unfortunately, that still leaves the possibility of discrimination out there.
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:44 PM   #9
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I think it will be left to the individual troop/pack/crew.

That may satisfy the religious groups that are against homosexuality, and placate the groups that meet at schools/libraries/businesses that are for allowing gay leaders.
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:01 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by zoemurr View Post
it is 100% about money. They are losing a ton of corporate funding right now. However, if they change their stance, many, many churches have threatened to pull support at the local level. A great deal of scouts are sponsored by conservative groups and upsetting them isn't good for their pocketbook either.

I think they just need time to crunch numbers and see which would give them more profit.
I think they should forget the numbers and just do the right thing.
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:02 PM   #11
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How much does it cost to sponsor a troop? My dad actually said he would help out a troop if they lost their church sponsorship.
There is no mimimum cost, it's more a chartering organization (it's generally a house of worship or a community group- Lions, Elks, VFW, etc) is assumes responsiblity for ensuring the quality of the leaders, program, etc on behalf of the BSA.

In reality- the organization the charters my son's troop gives them $250 and signs off on new leader apps. (Rather dumb as they don't know most of said leaders.)

On the opposite side- the Mormon church, for example, uses Boy Scouts as part of their Young Men's program and the church is much more involved in the troop financially and in the program.
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:46 PM   #12
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Unfortunately, that still leaves the possibility of discrimination out there.
It also allows people to choose a troop that aligns with their values. When you have churches chartering groups I don't see a problem with allowing them to expect their leaders and members to meet standards of the church as long as there are other troops that are allowed to set different standards. I know I wouldn't meet the standards set by the LDS church, so I wouldn't want to belong. As long as they don't expect troops chartered by an Episcopal church or a secular group to align with their beliefs, it's nothing to me. This expecting others to adhere to the others' values could tear the organization apart.
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Old 02-06-2013, 05:14 PM   #13
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Quote:
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How much does it cost to sponsor a troop? My dad actually said he would help out a troop if they lost their church sponsorship.
It's a bit more complicated than providing funding. Part of what people don't understand in this debate is the legal status of a local Pack/Troop. When a school or church "sponsors" a unit, it doesn't mean that they just let them meet in their building for free or give them some financial backing. The sponsoring organization enters into a legal agreement with the BSA and the sponsoring organization is granted a "charter" that allows them to own a unit "to use Scouting as part of their service to their own members, as well as the community at large." The "own" part is what sets BSA units apart from groups like GSUSA. Many BSA sponsoring organizations are rather passive about this fact, but they own their Pack/Troop as well as their assets. The unit is legally part of the sponsoring organization. As was mentioned by others, many organizations properly view their Pack/Troop as part of their organization's youth program. One of the terms of the legal agreement states that the chartered organization:
Quote:
Conduct the Scouting program according to its own policies and guidelines as well as those of the Boy Scouts of America.
Whatever guidelines and policies the BSA sets, the chartered organizations are obligated to adopt them in the carrying out of their Scouting program within their organization. And if a policy is determined to run sufficiently counter to the beliefs of the chartering organization, then they may opt to terminate the relationship... that's true regardless of whether the organization finds itself to the Right or the Left of the policy.

As for what happened today, my guess is that last week's announcement was a "trial balloon" that wasn't well received. For reasons already mentioned on the last thread, I think the proposal was a sure fire loser. It's fatal flaw is that it attempts to try and make two diametrically opposed groups "happy" with a guaranteed result of failing on both sides of the issue.

Also, with regard to those that think that changing the policy will trigger some sort of resurgence of the BSA, I think that beyond a lot of Internet "liking" not much will change of substance. Parents aren't going to stampede back to Cub Packs or Scout Troops (some will, but as some DISers have pointed out their kids wouldn't dream of being a Scout), certain United Ways aren't going to re-open their checkbooks at start writing big checks, and schools and such that have put policies in place to make it harder for outside organizations in general to use their facilities (lest they be accused of targeting the BSA, wink, wink) won't suddenly do an about face. If you want to look at a prototype, look at the GSUSA. They did the BSA one better by going further in terms of accommodation and ditched their requirement of some form of religious belief... and they're still scrambling to try and hold onto members.
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Old 02-06-2013, 05:26 PM   #14
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I think they should forget the numbers and just do the right thing.
The right thing is relative to your beliefs. Your right thing, and mine may be totally different or exactly the same!
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Old 02-06-2013, 05:43 PM   #15
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Agreed...
Wow, discrimination is about money? Bullying a group of teen boys is about money? Sickening, stupifyingly sickening. I just can't believe it, it's so hateful and evil that it makes me want to scream in horror. They call themselves a 'Christian' organization? Not my God!
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