Unreasonable guests

[tinkerpea]

Originally Posted by aubriee

I saw the same thing this past Oct at MK guest services. We went in to get a birthday button and saw a lady really giving the CM heck. She was pounding on the desk with one hand and waving a letter around with the other, arguing that she had a note from the doctor that her kid couldn't wait in lines and she demanded a front of the line pass and knew her rights. The CM was trying to explain to her that a GAC did not give anyone immediate access to rides. She wasn't accepting that and said that with the doctor's note they had to give her front of the line access, as her family could not and would not wait in lines. She kept saying she knew the law and Disney had no choice under the ADA, but to give her what her doctor's note said they needed, which was not waiting in any lines. When we left another CM was trying to explain to her about equal access vs special access and the ADA. The poor kids were standing there looking mortified, pulling on her blouse asking her to stop and leave. Both looked normal, so I'm not sure which one she was trying to get the GAC for. I felt sorry for both kids. One of them may have actually needed a GAC, but to tell the truth it looked more like she was just trying to cheat the system, with her doctor's help. Nothing was going to satisfy her, but immediate front of the line access and she refused to even consider any other options. When offered an alternative waiting area, she got even madder and said that was not what she wanted at all, she wanted a 'front of the line pass'. She didn't want to wait and had a right to go immediately on the rides, without waiting, because she knew the law. She absolutely refused to explain anything about why they needed front of the line or why the kid couldn't wait, just that the doctor's note guaranteed them that they wouldn't have to wait and Disney had no choice but to honor it and she didn't have to explain her kid's needs, the doctor told her she didn't.

Well she can't have known the law then and the ADA rights lol, and neither could the doctor? else she would have known not to try and pull a stunt like that with the doctors note!

Surely if she knew everything then she would have known they wasn't allowed to even look at her doctors note!

Stupid women should have taken the GAC with what accomadation they had given her, they may even have helped her more then she thought!
what did she think the pass was going to say??? " skip lines with this pass" at least that way if it really didn't work out for her she would have known getting the fast passes would have been a definite way to have shorter wait time!

I'm not sure why the person didn't explain her child's needs?
I mean every child normally has a need other then needing to skip the Que.,
Did she not think about what else might have helped!
I'm sure this most have raised alarm bells with the CM from the start!
And if you don't know what accomadation the child may need as you haven't been before your just worried because of the child's condition that there may be struggles, then trying the park 1st normally gives you a clear indication.
This is why I'm pleased that the GAC is needs issued and not diagnosis issued as there are just too many needs for the same condition.

[LisaBi]

Entitlementitus - I love that word! May I steal it!

I have seen guests with a "normal" GAC going off on CM's "because that party with the "same" card went to the front." But "that" party was a MAW family. I personally have notified CM's of a MAW family in line when they were in a character line...so the family could get pulled to the front. The family was too shy to approach the CM...it was their first day.

I'm sure every MAW family would happily stand in every long line there was if they could only take away whatever condition got them to be a MAW family in the first place. Just like most of us who need any sort of accommodations would gladly give them up if we could take away whatever condition causes the need for said accommodations. I know I would savor the chance to tour "normally" with my son.

[North of Mouse]

Originally Posted by buffettgirl

who spends this much time listening to what happens at guest services? Don't you all have your own vacations to attend to?

Have you never been behind someone in line and have NO choice but to listen to their rantings? You seem to think people wait around and enjoy all the things spewed with such venom toward poor hapless CMs.

[LockShockBarrel]

Ok well... I'm gonna throw this out there. While I absolutely don't agree with anyone ranting at a CM, there's a facet to this that hasn't been brought up yet.

We have no idea how the doctor put things across to this lady. We've discussed it before on these boards but it hasn't been brought up in awhile. Lots of doctors have heard of GACs or similar programs and think they're helping by giving notes or think they understand how the programs work. Doctors are used to having their orders followed remember? So for the sake of argument, doctors could be giving these notes out and telling their patients about the programs but giving them the wrong information therefore creating a false picture that, unless the patient does further research on, they have no reason to question since Dr Doofenschmertz told them about it. Then going on the assumption that the dear doctor was correct they plan around the wrong information and don't understand when Disney tells them how things really are.

[KPeveler]

I personally have had two doctors try to give me notes for Disney so I could skip the lines due to my medical conditions. I had to educate THEM as to what the system was.

It was entirely possible to have the wrong idea when going to guest relations.

It is also entirely possible to be polite, even if you think the other person is wrong.

[Tonka's Skipper]

Originally Posted by LockShockBarrel

Ok well... I'm gonna throw this out there. While I absolutely don't agree with anyone ranting at a CM, there's a facet to this that hasn't been brought up yet.

We have no idea how the doctor put things across to this lady. We've discussed it before on these boards but it hasn't been brought up in awhile. Lots of doctors have heard of GACs or similar programs and think they're helping by giving notes or think they understand how the programs work. Doctors are used to having their orders followed remember? So for the sake of argument, doctors could be giving these notes out and telling their patients about the programs but giving them the wrong information therefore creating a false picture that, unless the patient does further research on, they have no reason to question since Dr Doofenschmertz told them about it. Then going on the assumption that the dear doctor was correct they plan around the wrong information and don't understand when Disney tells them how things really are.

Everything you said is correct...........but a normal, reasonable guest should realize when told, that the doctor was in error and does not have the right to rant and yell and demand anything!

If the CM is giving out GAC's to people, why would they decide that that person should not get the one they need?..why would they tell them there is no GAC with front of the line rights if it wasn't true!


IMHO, the person that rants and yells knows they are wrong and is trying to pull a fast one! yes simply a entitlementitus!


AKK

[clanmcculloch]

I want to put something else out there. Not all CMs are created equal and yes there are some that act as though we're trying to cheat when using our GAC and will argue. It happens to me almost every time at Monster's Inc Laugh Floor. I'm not sure why CMs seem to think that we're trying to skip the line. We're typically there when we'll get in the next show even if we're in the regular line (I swear by detailed touring plans). I almost every time have to explain about DD15 not being able to wait in the mob area and that I totally understand that we'll get the worst seats in the house (gotta move to the end of the row and we go in with the first group so that means worst view) but it's a matter of this or not going in at all. Usually that's enough for the CMs to see that we really do understand what we need and that it's a legitimate need. We've had CMs argue with us and one or two times the tone and body language that we've been confronted with made me get upset and probably a bit hostile (I know, I should have asked for a manager but I was upset and reacting in the moment). If you heard me talking with the CMs at that point, you would have probably thought I was just some scammer trying to get away with something as well.

I think we all need to remember that we're just seeing and hearing one moment in a person's day and even life. We have no way of knowing what led up to that moment.

[North of Mouse]

Originally Posted by clanmcculloch

I want to put something else out there. Not all CMs are created equal and yes there are some that act as though we're trying to cheat when using our GAC and will argue. It happens to me almost every time at Monster's Inc Laugh Floor. I'm not sure why CMs seem to think that we're trying to skip the line. We're typically there when we'll get in the next show even if we're in the regular line (I swear by detailed touring plans). I almost every time have to explain about DD15 not being able to wait in the mob area and that I totally understand that we'll get the worst seats in the house (gotta move to the end of the row and we go in with the first group so that means worst view) but it's a matter of this or not going in at all. Usually that's enough for the CMs to see that we really do understand what we need and that it's a legitimate need. We've had CMs argue with us and one or two times the tone and body language that we've been confronted with made me get upset and probably a bit hostile (I know, I should have asked for a manager but I was upset and reacting in the moment). If you heard me talking with the CMs at that point, you would have probably thought I was just some scammer trying to get away with something as well.

I think we all need to remember that we're just seeing and hearing one moment in a person's day and even life. We have no way of knowing what led up to that moment.

I can see and understand your frustrations, but, even so, there is *no* circumstances where a CM should have to take verbal abuse from anyone. What if they too, being human also, were to react back in the same manner?
It's called self control, no matter. There would be a time and place to vent if something was out of line, *not* in front of everybody.

[clanmcculloch]

I absolutely agree that there's never any excuse for verbal abuse. This is true for guests and CMs as well anybody even outside of WDW. I have definitely heard my share of abusive guests unfortunately and I really feel for the CMs who have to deal with them. It's never right.

In my situation that I described, I was nowhere near verbally abusive but I was definitely testy and leaning towards hostile (not once did I do any kind of name calling, put downs, insults or even insinuate insults despite the insulting way the CM was talking to me; it was more about my own tone of voice demonstrating hostility on my part) and yes I know I shouldn't have let it get that far but again, I was also on the receiving end of some nastiness being directed my way and I let my temper get the best of me. Being treated like dirt by a CM in front of my children as well as everybody around is not ok and I got upset. Yes, hindsight is 20/20 and I should ended the conversation and asked for a manager.

[buffettgirl]

Originally Posted by North of Mouse

Have you never been behind someone in line and have NO choice but to listen to their rantings? You seem to think people wait around and enjoy all the things spewed with such venom toward poor hapless CMs. Sheesh

No, but people sure enjoy talking about it here.

It's a pointless conversation and just reinforces the typical story that either plenty of people are fakers or there are CMs who are evil.

Neither seems to be productive.

[North of Mouse]

Originally Posted by buffettgirl

No, but people sure enjoy talking about it here.

It's a pointless conversation and just reinforces the typical story that either plenty of people are fakers or there are CMs who are evil.

Neither seems to be productive.

Truth is truth!

There are a lot of threads on the Dis that are not *productive* in the sense you are speaking of, but it doesn't mean we don't experience some of these things.

This had nothing to do with *real* vs. *fake* needs for a GAC. The OP was speaking of a person with *unreal* expectations being very nasty/belligerent to a CM. This happens with/without GACs (just happened to concern a GAC).

I've also been in line behind the same type person acting the same way to a CM because their little *snowflake* was being denied getting on a ride with height restrictions - about an inch too short. Both instances they were *way* out of line.

[clanmcculloch]

Originally Posted by buffettgirl

No, but people sure enjoy talking about it here.

It's a pointless conversation and just reinforces the typical story that either plenty of people are fakers or there are CMs who are evil.

Neither seems to be productive.

For me, there's a different point to this conversation. Don't judge people based on a snippet of a conversation you happen to overhear and realize that you don't know the whole story of situations that you happen to catch just a glimpse of. I don't see how that's pointless.

Of course we're all free to take from a conversation what we want. That's what I see in this conversation.

[North of Mouse]

Originally Posted by clanmcculloch

For me, there's a different point to this conversation. Don't judge people based on a snippet of a conversation you happen to overhear and realize that you don't know the whole story of situations that you happen to catch just a glimpse of. I don't see how that's pointless.

Of course we're all free to take from a conversation what we want. That's what I see in this conversation.

From what the OP said (which is all we know) it wasn't a snippet of conversation, but seemed pretty plain that the woman was wanting/demanding a lot more that a GAC (she was given that with no problem) She was a rude *self entitled* person.

Really not the same situation as yours - all you wanted was what your GAC entitled you too, *not* beyond and above.

[clanmcculloch]

Oh, I get what you're saying. I'm choosing to see further benefit to the conversation as a whole rather than just looking at the original post. LockShockBarrel and KPeevler both brought up very good points about how that conversation could have possibly been influenced by a very poorly informed doctor who set very bad expectations. For all we know, maybe the doctor told this person to fight for her rights, argue if she doesn't get a front of the line pass, etc. Yes, there are many people with horrible a sense of entitlement. OP described somebody who definitely seems to fit that description. I'm not saying that's what happened, I'm just trying to make the point that we just don't know what's going on outside the conversation we've overheard when we witness things like this.

Yes, I like my rose coloured glasses just fine, thank you very much. Look, I get it. I've encountered plenty of these kinds of people in my time. Because I have a temper as well as a rather sharp tongue, I put forth great effort to try to perceive things in the most positive way I can and to let everything else roll off my back. I think you've probably been able to pick up on the fact that I tend to personalize and remember things that do tick me off.

All that being said, I do agree with you that there's NEVER any reason to berate, insult, or otherwise verbally abuse anybody. This is true even if you are on the right side of an arguement/discussion.

[buffettgirl]

Originally Posted by clanmcculloch

For me, there's a different point to this conversation. Don't judge people based on a snippet of a conversation you happen to overhear and realize that you don't know the whole story of situations that you happen to catch just a glimpse of. I don't see how that's pointless.

Of course we're all free to take from a conversation what we want. That's what I see in this conversation.

OH totally, that would be fine if that's what was going on here, but I don't think that's what people are saying. People ARE judging what was happening even though they may not have known the full situation.

the point I want to take: we all have issues going on. It sucks to be judged.