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Old 02-06-2013, 12:04 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by luvmy3 View Post
The DS left school to "find himself" according to the OP. People who don't that, are people who aren t sure about their own hopes and dreams. If he was truly committed to going back to school because he knew what he wanted, he wouldn't have been able to be "bribed". Maybe him working for his aunt is part of himself finding himself.
It seems that the OP thinks her DS could 'find himself' better if he has a degree and a job that pays better than minimum wage and seems to hold no future. It is not the place of another family member to interfere.
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:07 PM   #62
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I would say YES. I would restore peace.

In my experience, when family members stop speaking, there is usually more than one solitary event that led to the separation of sorts.
For example, my sister and I always had some sibling rivalry. She's older and always had some resentment toward me because I was "mommy's favorite" according to her. As we got older, she was sort of the ugly duckling/loner and I was just the opposite. We still loved each other and I never imagined we'd stop speaking, but one day during an argument (over the phone) I called her the "B" word....and that was it. She cut all ties and it's been years since we've spoken.

So, I can tell people, "She stopped speaking to me because I called her a B," which is a fact. However, there's an underlying history. I never "did" anything to her or wronged her in any way. She obviously grew up with a lot of anger and resentment towards me, and that argument was just the straw that broke the camel's back for her, I assume. I think it's all very silly and petty. However, I wasn't the one harboring the resentment. Obviously, she feels she has valid reasons for ending our relationship.

It wouldn't be so bad if we just stopped speaking and that was the end of it. It's not that easy though. The whole family is affected because everyone has to watch what they say or they feel like they do. She's had a child now that I don't know and it's all very unnecessary really. She is closer to our mother (way closer) than I am, but I can imagine it's going to be very awkward when she gets old or ill. It's ironic that she resented me for being "mommy's favorite" and now she and my mother are best buds.

Now, I do have a brother who stole from me and I cut ties with him. He's much older than me and I grew up watching him do drugs, go to jail, etc. None of that changed how I felt about him, but when I opened up my home to him and he stole my video camera that had a tape with my baby's first steps, first birthday, etc. on it....that broke my heart in more ways than one. Several years went by without us speaking, but I got over it. Not completely. He's not welcome in my home and he's not part of my life, but that has to do with his lifestyle more than what he "did to me." I'll speak to him if I see him, give him a hug, tell him I love him. That's about it.

That's a complex question with no simple answer, really. Being the one who was cut off and the one who cut someone off, I still think making peace in some way is the best choice for everyone, especially yourself.
I agree with the above. It's what has me feeling so badly about it all. This sister did some ugly things while this was going on. They didn't all involve my son. She cut off my one sister because she allowed her son to move back home with his gf. She felt that was an immoral choice, I guess. She also had some problems with her previous partner who is my other sisters friend. Like I said, it really is complicated. My other sister is not speaking to her either, over that mess. And my dh is very angry at her for all of this. I have never in my life not spoken to somebody for even a whole day, even if they deserved it. I am not good at holding on to a grudge. It makes me sick.
Part of my concern was that my son was partnering with somebody who has business dealings that are often wrong. But like others have said, he's an adult. He's aware of this. But at 21 he doesn't have the breadth of experience to understand what all of that really means. I am sure she is angry at me because she saw me asking her to not include my son in this as a judgement of her lifestyle, something I had previously kept my mouth shut about.
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:08 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Lionqueen2 View Post
It seems that the OP thinks her DS could 'find himself' better if he has a degree and a job that pays better than minimum wage and seems to hold no future. It is not the place of another family member to interfere.
Yep. That's it. If this had happened the first time he quit school I would have been more patient with it. But he was 21 when it happened and he'll soon be 23. And the fact that the temptation came from somebody who continually judged and criticized me for allowing him to quit college and join a band.
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:20 PM   #64
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Yep. That's it. If this had happened the first time he quit school I would have been more patient with it. But he was 21 when it happened and he'll soon be 23. And the fact that the temptation came from somebody who continually judged and criticized me for allowing him to quit college and join a band.
FWIW, I think you all will be happier if you just stay in the present. Maybe rehashing all the old "grudges" is unhealthy for everyone.
Your son is almost 23, not 21? Gosh, it's time to let this young man get on with his life, his terms.
And yea, there is always somewhere, with an opinion on your parenting. It happens to most of us. It's life. I get you didn't allow him to "quit". I'd let it go, and focus on being proud of his hard work, now. He's not unemployed, living in your basement, eating doritos and playing video games.

What happens down the road? If he makes a change, he can use his work experience as a chef to help fund what ever he decides.
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:21 PM   #65
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Tiggeroo, if anyone crosses me, when it comes to the well being of my child.... when my child is involved... NOPE.... couldn't let that go.
You do not have to be at war with your sister.
I don't see how that could ever be helping your son, with his mother placing him in the middle of drama and 'battle'.

But, play nicey-nice, hugs and kisses, make up and everything is now okay. No, I think I would have to admit that I could not personally do that.
EDITED TO ADD: In fact, after reading the latest posts, and remembering your earlier thread... I KNOW I wouldn't.

It sounds like he is being manipulated and USED by her for round the clock available cheap restaurant labor.

My child's well being would be far more important than Sister's convenience and financial gain.
My child's well being would be far more important than a Grandma's (often well meaning but un-realistic and controlling) wishes.
Matriarchs (Grandmas, Mothers, MILs, etc... often seem to have a problem with the whole viewpoint that "others can control, manipulate, over-step personal boundaries, and screw you over, because - It's family...." That doesn't fly with me.)

Just to add:
I am not sure how this other family member is involved.
That should not be happening.
This situation seems to be between you, your adult son, and your sister.
I am having a hard time seeing how any other personal involvement could be helpful, and would not be crossing boundaries, etc....

Sometimes one does have to go to monumental effort to maintain some family relationships. I would not let this separate me from any other un-involved family member.

Last edited by Wishing on a star; 02-06-2013 at 12:31 PM.
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:25 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Lionqueen2 View Post
It seems that the OP thinks her DS could 'find himself' better if he has a degree and a job that pays better than minimum wage and seems to hold no future. It is not the place of another family member to interfere.
But he wasn't in school, and if he truly wanted to be there, even now, he would be. Lets not forget we are talking about a 21 year old, not a 6 year old. I take that back, we are talking about a 23 year old!
I understand the OP's frustration with her sister, however the ds is and was an adult when the sister approached him with an opportunity to work for her. I don't see anything wrong with that, obviously the OP and YMMV.
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:28 PM   #67
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I don't really think he's being used as cheap labor, intentionally. I just think the restaurant isn't generating the funds to pay him more now. I'm not at war with my sister, I"m just not speaking to her. I'd be polite if she was here, but she lives too far away for that to happen. I go out of my way to not place my son in the middle. But I do have to go out and visit to see what he's done that he's proud of. And my dd is getting married in September and that will involve more family stuff. The pressure was coming from my brother because his son is very sick with cancer. He thinks this is such a small thing compared to his problems and we should work it out. (he's right this is small) I believe paying my son better should be part of the plan to cover the costs of building the restaurant because without him she would not have it. Other restaurants wouldn't have been able to hire him at the wages he's getting. He did help open one other restaurant and has done many of the things he's doing now, before on a smaller scale.
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:46 PM   #68
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Yes, I just did. However, the person does not live close by so it is kind of easy.

No on the other hand, my DH and his family will not make up with each other.
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:55 PM   #69
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My son was planning on going back to college after a time of "finding himself". During this time he worked in a very nice cafe who trained him as a chef. Sister was very happy with me that he made this decision. She was always upset that he wasn't in school. Sister decided to open a restaurant. Wanted son to come run it for her. I told her that would stop him from going to school. He doesn't want to go into restaurant work as a career choice. Sister got angry at me for asking her to not offer him lots of bribes to come work for her. I asked her to give him some time to sort things out or set it up so he could go to school too. She then offered him even more. Called him constantly telling him how fun it would all be with her in her town. I asked her as a sister to back off. At the same time I told son I would support him and love him whatever he did. Gave him my reasons for why I was against it. He was 21 so an adult but not self-supporting. He went to work for her and now a year and a half later he is still a low wage cook working tons of hours and living in my sis' basement. I'm hurt that she didn't consider my input at all. If a random stranger had asked him that would have been find. But she's my sister. She has guilted, paid and gifted all of her kids into college. None of them are allowed to work for her full time and can't work at all unless they're in school. I know he's an adult. I get that. But there have been many things that I have done for her over the years just because she's my sis. I have gotten up with my dh in the middle of the night and drove half way across the country because she had an emergency. I would never try to get one of her kids to do something she didn't want them to do unless I thought she was hurting them. And her kids are all young adults too. When you have that kind of relationship you expect the same kindnesses back.
Sorry, no need for you to apologize. Maybe your son was her best bet to make the business survive, but she overstepped the moral boundaries with a selfish motivation.

As much as it makes your Mom sad, I'm sure she'd want you two to make up, but not at your expense. You should talk to her.
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:59 PM   #70
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I don't really think he's being used as cheap labor, intentionally. I just think the restaurant isn't generating the funds to pay him more now.


I'm not at war with my sister, I"m just not speaking to her. I'd be polite if she was here

The pressure was coming from my brother.
Okay, I see you answered some of what I mentioned in my post.

On the first sentence above... it speaks for itself... It doesn't matter whether she has the excess funds or not. The reason doesn't matter... Your son seems to be underpaid, and being 'used'.
And, the bigger overall concern, he is working overtime, even living in her basement, etc...
The amount of control she seems to have in this situation is almost scarey.

I am glad to hear that you are not at-war with your sister.
Those are details that I was not sure of.
Exactly how heated things were...
Why and how other's may be involved.
Ongoing discussions/drama... etc.

Which brings us to the last sentence quoted above.
Your brother is def. asking/hoping for more than keep-the-peace.
That is to be noted here.
NO, I would not play nicey-nice and act like everything that sister has done is okay and all hugs and kisses.... Not for grandma... Not for brother...

It sounds like 'control' issues are rampant here for everyone in your family????? Especially your sister... But not excluding any other family member. Seems to apply for everyone here in this scenario. And seems to be the basis for all of the issues.
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:12 PM   #71
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Okay, I see you answered some of what I mentioned in my post.

On the first sentence above... it speaks for itself... It doesn't matter whether she has the excess funds or not. The reason doesn't matter... Your son seems to be underpaid, and being 'used'.
And, the bigger overall concern, he is working overtime, even living in her basement, etc...
The amount of control she seems to have in this situation is almost scarey.

I am glad to hear that you are not at-war with your sister.
Those are details that I was not sure of.
Exactly how heated things were...
Why and how other's may be involved.
Ongoing discussions/drama... etc.

Which brings us to the last sentence quoted above.
Your brother is def. asking/hoping for more than keep-the-peace.
That is to be noted here.
NO, I would not play nicey-nice and act like everything that sister has done is okay and all hugs and kisses.... Not for grandma... Not for brother...

It sounds like 'control' issues are rampant here for everyone in your family????? Especially your sister... But not excluding any other family member. Seems to apply for everyone here in this scenario. And seems to be the basis for all of the issues.

Yes, this sister is very controlling. She rarely involves me. None of her kids have lived on their own. My brother is not really being controlling. He just doesn't understand all of the issues here. Truly, some things are just a sister thing. His son has been very sick and it has been a very rough year for all of us due to this. He gets a free pass for just about anything with me right now. He's not really hounding me, just brings it up once in awhile. I have been very supportive but it would be easier for him if there weren't all these splits right now. I can definitely be a bit over involved with my kids in some little ways, but at the same time I try to give them freedom to do what they want. Our parents were distracted and neglectful during parts of our upbringing. I am sure it causes us to be a bit over involved with our kids. It's an issue that I definitely work on. If my kids are paying their own way they can do what they please. I reserve the right as a parent to gently give my advice initially but once they have made a decision I try my best to support it. It just amazed me that a person who can be so controlling with her kids couldn't understand my concerns here.
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:49 PM   #72
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[/B] ... It just amazed me that a person who can be so controlling with her kids couldn't understand my concerns here.
Simple, a person that's a control freak cannot restrain her/himself, they want to have their say so in all and everyone, because they know the best!
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:59 PM   #73
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I am seriously considering seeing a counselor over this situation. I need help defining boundaries. Normally I can be a. It of a doormat. This situation is pretty unprecedented for me. I've never really said what you did is wrong and I'm not ok with it. It just gets complicated because I wonder if my anger with my sister is caused by me being controlling of my son. Believe it or not I usually err on the side of having nothing to say about my kids decisions in an attempt to not control. I think it's actually hurt my son at times. To be honest though my kids are pretty comfortable doing what they want and ignoring my advice anyway.
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:00 PM   #74
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I think what is coming across is that you are trying to be fair in your reactions, and really trying to give us a realistic view and not just paint your sister as a bad person.

Like others said, it's hard as a parent when we are helpless to help our own kids, and the family that we're supposed to be able to depend on seems to be working against us.

I have someone in my family(A) whose cousin(B) wanted to move out of her home (for whatever reasons). B was over 21 and asked if she could move in with A. The parents of B went ballistic and cut A off as well as A's parents. They wanted their daughter to have no support so she would move back with them. Well, B 'grew up' in whatever way she wanted, and eventually got her own place. She never did move back with her parents. Years later, she made up with her parents, but the relationship between the two sisters (A & B's mothers) has remained strained. Of course, past history had some influence whether or not the sisters used this event to not talk to each other any longer.

I don't know. I see these types of relationship struggles, and think we have to decide, ultimately what we want.

What kind of relationship do you want to have with your sister, and how much are you willing to "sacrifice" for the peace of the family?
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:21 PM   #75
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... and how much are you willing to "sacrifice" for the peace of the family?
Why sacrifice? And why her?

Family should help each other in needy situations, not use and abuse because the original poster sounds like a nice person that always let everyone around have their says so?

One thing for sure, her son is an adult now, and if he took some time off from school to "find himself", not sure if he ever wanted to go back there. But then again her sister took a clear advantage of this situation.

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