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Old 02-05-2013, 04:33 PM   #31
moon
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Originally Posted by okeydokey View Post
I don't understand this answer. Are you saying the men are more forgiving than woman in general, or just that you are more forgiving than your wife?
I think he means in general: "I'm of the male gender". Supposedly, men let everything slide... but in reality I know men who can hold a grudge with the best of them (that incudes one of my cousins)
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:07 PM   #32
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during this time this sis fought dirty, told some lies and just made the whole thing worst. But we were always close and I can't imagine waiting til some awful time to work this out. If she would call it would be easier but she won't.
The first thing you need to do is realize that your sister is not who you thought she was, and she will never be who you want her to be.

You have two choices: you can either accept her as she is and go forward being civil and polite, mending the rift and making peace for the family. Or ... you can decide that you can't forgive her until she apologizes, which she never will, and go forward without her in your life and causing stress for the rest of the family.

Personally ... I read what she did and thought to myself, "Really? That's all?" I don't mean to belittle the hurt you feel or the fact that she was manipulative, but I think you need to go back and re-read your explanation. She didn't actually do anything to YOU. She didn't do what you asked her to and ignored your request, but you didn't get hurt. You're still in the same situation you were in before all of this, right? Probably a bit better off financially since you've cut your son off and aren't paying for his school or anything.

Your son is the one who got dumped on here. His aunt coerced him into a job he wasn't sure about but took anyway, and his parents cut him off so that he didn't have an obvious other choice. If you want him to walk away from the situation with your sister, then give him an incentive or help him with a plan. If he doesn't want that, then that's not really your sister's fault. Sounds like you may be blaming your sister for your son's choices, while not providing him a better option.

I'd talk to him and find out where he's at -- he may be feeling better about it all than you think. But either way, I'd move past it and move forward. You don't have to agree with everything she's done to be civil and make peace.

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Old 02-05-2013, 05:09 PM   #33
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my son can do whatever he wants. If he did this with a stranger I'd be ok. But it was my sister and she was kind of like that guy on Pinnochio telling the kids they don't have to work or go to school, just play all day. There is a ton of family history here, I guess. If she called I would not hang up on her. I'd try to work it out. I just can't bring myself to call her.
How has this affected your relationship with your son? Do you talk with your son now?

Secondly, I think your mom AND brother expects too much right away.

Tell mom that you are hopeful that one day you will work things out & you will think about it. In other words stall for the time being and then see what happens.

I mean I would not TELL your mother and brother to call sister to tell her that she should call YOU but by saying those things to family it might prompt them to intervene, just saying.

You need a mediator to field this landmine. Look before you leap is my recommendation. You could always just send her card to see if it prompts anything. Ask her to call YOU. And there you go....easy enough which will get parents and sibs off your back.
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:13 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by moon View Post
I think he means in general: "I'm of the male gender". Supposedly, men let everything slide... but in reality I know men who can hold a grudge with the best of them (that incudes one of my cousins)
My father was one of them too.
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:19 PM   #35
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Makeup but with some caveats.

My answer is very broad as every situation is different.

I'm the type of person that does not believe in holding onto old hurt and resentment. Primarily because I firmly believe that when I do it causes me more hurt and stress than the person is worth. So as a general rule I try to "let go". that is not to say things return to normal.
Generally my relationship with the parties involved has now changed.

My brothers drug and alcohol addiction ripped my family apart. even though he is now clean and sober and has been for a while, he understands that for me there is no going back to that "pre-addiction" closeness. We both mourn the loss of that relationship but we're pretty cool with the new one.
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:29 PM   #36
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my son can do whatever he wants. If he did this with a stranger I'd be ok. But it was my sister and she was kind of like that guy on Pinnochio telling the kids they don't have to work or go to school, just play all day. There is a ton of family history here, I guess. If she called I would not hang up on her. I'd try to work it out. I just can't bring myself to call her.
I actually think this is not so bad.

First, unfortunately this maybe an excellent life lesson for your son. ultimately he's got to be the one who makes a change. I would definitely keep the lines of communication open with him, keep offering him alternatives etc etc. but in the end as everyone else has said it's got to be his move.

some times a crappy job is what it takes to motivate people. I know that's what did it for me. A few Christmas seasons working retail in NYC (macy's 34th street) was enough to convince me that working with John q public was not for me. took my studies a heck of a lot more serious after that.

now as for your sister. I would make up but once again, chalk it up to "now I know". recognize that you may not get back that closeness and trusting her is not going to happen for a while. But you can be civil, call occasionally and get togethr at family functions. that's is totally doable
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:40 PM   #37
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Overall the experience has been good for my son. Not economically but in terms of confidence. He completely opened that restaurant, creating the menu, establishing relationships with vendors he chose hiring staff... And he runs the place. That's why he works so much. But there is no money to pay him a fair hourly wage. It's a new place and sister went broke opening it. He is not making anything close to a beginning chef's wage. But he still doesn't want to go into restaurant work permanently. This is just a way to stall making decisions.
I didn't cut him off because he went out there. And he had everything he needed. I just was trying to make it a bit less appealing to flounder. I wanted him to get tired of not having nice stuff. My sister may not be paying him a bunch but she bought him a nice used car, takes him to show and gets him into clubs and busy him fancy clothes through connections she has. She has many connections and can get him things that I couldn't. Unfortunately, these things are tempting to my son right now. She is not doing it for her kids unless it's to reward them going to school. This is one of the reasons I asked her not to lure him out there. I told her if he didn't want to cook I wanted it to be hard for him to continue to make foolish decisions.
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:22 PM   #38
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Yes. and I did.
Have a sister who pretty much left our family for years (she found our "father) who had not been in our lives EVER. Moved him across country into her home and forgot the rest of us. Our Mother that RAISED us- all by herself, our step dad who was the only dad we ever knew, and our younger sister and brother.

I am trying to forget it, but it's hard. She hurt our mother soooo badly.
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:27 PM   #39
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There's nothing that says that you can't have a civil relationship with your sister that ease some of the discomfort for the rest of the family without having to be her best buddy.

I understand that you wish she had supported you in your desires for your son, but she didn't.

She has shown you who she is. If you choose to open up to a civil...let's say superficial...relationship with her, keep in mind who she is so you don't get sucked in again.
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:42 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Tiggeroo View Post
Overall the experience has been good for my son. Not economically but in terms of confidence. He completely opened that restaurant, creating the menu, establishing relationships with vendors he chose hiring staff... And he runs the place. That's why he works so much. But there is no money to pay him a fair hourly wage. It's a new place and sister went broke opening it. He is not making anything close to a beginning chef's wage. But he still doesn't want to go into restaurant work permanently. This is just a way to stall making decisions.
I didn't cut him off because he went out there. And he had everything he needed. I just was trying to make it a bit less appealing to flounder. I wanted him to get tired of not having nice stuff. My sister may not be paying him a bunch but she bought him a nice used car, takes him to show and gets him into clubs and busy him fancy clothes through connections she has. She has many connections and can get him things that I couldn't. Unfortunately, these things are tempting to my son right now. She is not doing it for her kids unless it's to reward them going to school. This is one of the reasons I asked her not to lure him out there. I told her if he didn't want to cook I wanted it to be hard for him to continue to make foolish decisions.
Wait, so your DS is working at a start up business, gaining amazing business experience, and your sister is providing housing and other perks to make up for the fact that there isn't money for wages right now nd you are mad at her?

Your son's actions speak volumes. It sounds like he tells you that this isn't what he wants to do long term because he knows this isn't what *you* want for him long term. If he decides that he doesn't want to do this in the future, he can take his skills nd experience, get a degree and then stand head and shoulders above those that have a piece of paper but no experience.

I'm just not seeing your son as the issue here. I also don't see what your sister is doing wrong, other than enabling your adult son to have a different future than the one you would choose for him. But he gets to make those choices, not you and I think it is unfair to him for you to try to limit those choices by getting family members to take them off the table.
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:54 PM   #41
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Wait, so your DS is working at a start up business, gaining amazing business experience, and your sister is providing housing and other perks to make up for the fact that there isn't money for wages right now nd you are mad at her?

Your son's actions speak volumes. It sounds like he tells you that this isn't what he wants to do long term because he knows this isn't what *you* want for him long term. If he decides that he doesn't want to do this in the future, he can take his skills nd experience, get a degree and then stand head and shoulders above those that have a piece of paper but no experience.

I'm just not seeing your son as the issue here. I also don't see what your sister is doing wrong, other than enabling your adult son to have a different future than the one you would choose for him. But he gets to make those choices, not you and I think it is unfair to him for you to try to limit those choices by getting family members to take them off the table.
ITA. Well said. He is a 21 yo man.
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Old 02-05-2013, 07:13 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiggeroo View Post
Overall the experience has been good for my son. Not economically but in terms of confidence. He completely opened that restaurant, creating the menu, establishing relationships with vendors he chose hiring staff... And he runs the place. That's why he works so much. But there is no money to pay him a fair hourly wage. It's a new place and sister went broke opening it. He is not making anything close to a beginning chef's wage. But he still doesn't want to go into restaurant work permanently. This is just a way to stall making decisions.
I didn't cut him off because he went out there. And he had everything he needed. I just was trying to make it a bit less appealing to flounder. I wanted him to get tired of not having nice stuff. My sister may not be paying him a bunch but she bought him a nice used car, takes him to show and gets him into clubs and busy him fancy clothes through connections she has. She has many connections and can get him things that I couldn't. Unfortunately, these things are tempting to my son right now. She is not doing it for her kids unless it's to reward them going to school. This is one of the reasons I asked her not to lure him out there. I told her if he didn't want to cook I wanted it to be hard for him to continue to make foolish decisions.
If this is the only issue, yes, I think you should work things out with your sister.
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Old 02-05-2013, 07:22 PM   #43
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If this is the only issue, yes, I think you should work things out with your sister.
It's not the only issue but when it doesn't involve my son I can ignore the other issues. She doesn't live with me and her decisions are her choices. I was very close to my sister but she lives half way across the country. We see each other twice a year. In between we normally talked on the phone at least once a day.
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Old 02-05-2013, 07:28 PM   #44
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Wait, so your DS is working at a start up business, gaining amazing business experience, and your sister is providing housing and other perks to make up for the fact that there isn't money for wages right now nd you are mad at her?

Your son's actions speak volumes. It sounds like he tells you that this isn't what he wants to do long term because he knows this isn't what *you* want for him long term. If he decides that he doesn't want to do this in the future, he can take his skills nd experience, get a degree and then stand head and shoulders above those that have a piece of paper but no experience.

I'm just not seeing your son as the issue here. I also don't see what your sister is doing wrong, other than enabling your adult son to have a different future than the one you would choose for him. But he gets to make those choices, not you and I think it is unfair to him for you to try to limit those choices by getting family members to take them off the table.
There is a good deal more to this that is too personal to get in to on here. I have huge problems with some of her business dealings. And my son knows I'll support him in anything, including this. We offered to pay for culinary school or help him fund opening a place in the city. When he left school it was to pursue his band full time which he did for two years while living with his band-mates. We supported this fully, well with some tiny parental reservations that we talked about before he did it. Once he made the decision he had our full support. I have concerns about the food business but I would still support it if it's what he wants to do. He's very gifted. However, I want to know that eventually he can support himself in some way. If he did not want to work in restaurants I really want him to train for something he likes. I did not tell my sister to not offer my son the position. I asked her to back off, stop bribing him and let him make a clear headed decision based on the facts, not pressure from an aunt he loves.
But I can see your point. I do agree that he gaining valuable experience. I can see both sides to this issue, hence the angst making a decision.
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Old 02-05-2013, 07:39 PM   #45
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I would try and work things out.
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