Disney Information Station Logo

Go Back   The DIS Discussion Forums - DISboards.com > Just for Fun > Photography Board
Find Hotel Specials & DIScounts
 
facebooktwitterpinterestgoogle plusyoutubeDIS UpdatesDIS email updates
Register Chat FAQ Tickers Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read





Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-06-2013, 05:25 PM   #16
wbeem
DIS Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 1,396

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimim View Post
William,

I agree with you. We were just up getting 6 mth photo's of our son at the most respected photographer where I live. They have been in business for countless years. They have changed with the times but have said that it is getting harder and harder with places popping up all over the place. He said there used to be 23 in our area now there are over 100. Most turn out cheap disks with pretty cheap sessions. It is killing them and it's sad because I have never see anyone who puts out prints the way they do. I souldn't say killing them cause they are still the biggest and most respected in our area, but he did say it does affect how things used to be. Yes they are expensive and the owner is very particular and likes many consults before shoots, but the results show, but again you pay for it. Years ago it wasthe norm for them and the others in our area now with other companies popping up over night it isn't and I feel bad for them, but I will always go back cause high quality prints and quality quality work is how I feel memories are preserved for years to come.

It's funny this all came up after me talking with them last Friday. The one photographer and his assistant was kind enough to sit with me for an hour to help me get a game plan together for making a album to show off my best shots for each year of my kids as they grow. I don't think others would have taken the time they did to share their knowledge to help me if they didn't know how much I value their work and time.

A truly classic and classy studio.
I think your story really says a lot. You get what you pay for.

There are plenty of photographers around who will show up to take your photos and put them on a DVD. They usually have a day job because they can't make ends meet as a photographer. The problem is that they never really think beyond making some fast bucks. Even some of the full-time photographers I know around here work that way and they are always scrambling and creating mediocre images.

Quality takes time and experience, which is why it costs more. When I listed those things that go into what a photographer does in a business, I still left a lot off the table - cost of the gear, insurance, daily cost of doing business, etc. All of those things have to be met before the word "profit" ever enters into the picture, but most people quite honestly never think about those things. To them, pictures are cheap because they don't perceive a cost to making them.
wbeem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 07:16 AM   #17
jimim
DIS Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: NEPA
Posts: 1,164

Quote:
Originally Posted by wbeem

I think your story really says a lot. You get what you pay for.

There are plenty of photographers around who will show up to take your photos and put them on a DVD. They usually have a day job because they can't make ends meet as a photographer. The problem is that they never really think beyond making some fast bucks. Even some of the full-time photographers I know around here work that way and they are always scrambling and creating mediocre images.

Quality takes time and experience, which is why it costs more. When I listed those things that go into what a photographer does in a business, I still left a lot off the table - cost of the gear, insurance, daily cost of doing business, etc. All of those things have to be met before the word "profit" ever enters into the picture, but most people quite honestly never think about those things. To them, pictures are cheap because they don't perceive a cost to making them.
Thanks William. It's just funny this came up and had the exact conversation last week.

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards
__________________


Animal Kingdom Lodge Jambo House June 13th for the week.

Planning Old Key West for Columbus week for 6 nights and then off to a Disney Cruise for 3 nights!
My Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/60184887@N08/
jimim is online now   Reply With Quote
|
The DIS
Register to remove

Join Date: 1997
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,000,000
Old 02-07-2013, 09:28 AM   #18
photo_chick
Knows a little about a lot of things, a lot about nothing.
 
photo_chick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: in the middle of Dallas/Fort Worth
Posts: 4,871

Quote:
Originally Posted by wbeem View Post
I think your story really says a lot. You get what you pay for.

There are plenty of photographers around who will show up to take your photos and put them on a DVD. They usually have a day job because they can't make ends meet as a photographer. The problem is that they never really think beyond making some fast bucks. Even some of the full-time photographers I know around here work that way and they are always scrambling and creating mediocre images.

Quality takes time and experience, which is why it costs more. When I listed those things that go into what a photographer does in a business, I still left a lot off the table - cost of the gear, insurance, daily cost of doing business, etc. All of those things have to be met before the word "profit" ever enters into the picture, but most people quite honestly never think about those things. To them, pictures are cheap because they don't perceive a cost to making them.
I totally agree with what you're saying here. I think where we differ in opinion is when it comes to actual prints. I think you can give the quality and sell a handful of images from a session on a disc, like maybe not even 5, that are finished and ready to print. It's not the same thing as giving 20+ images from a one hour session on a disc, half of which are probably out of focus.

That last paragraph... the people who are popping out discs of 20+ sub-par images are often doing it with entry level gear, they shoot all on location so there is no studio cost, and they often have no insurance. And I've seen many that do a high volume of work as well so they end up making enough to quit their day jobs. Clients will pay for bad work because they don't know it's bad. That is the reality of this business now.

Now... jimim.... the photographer you went to... does he have a studio? Because studio portrait photographers will do a higher volume of print sales than location photographer. Something about the formal shots makes people want huge prints to hang on the wall, where they might not want them with less formal location shots. People are also generally willing to pay a lot more for formal studio shots than they're willing to pay for location work.
__________________
Danielle

photo_chick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 09:34 AM   #19
jimim
DIS Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: NEPA
Posts: 1,164

Quote:
Originally Posted by photo_chick View Post
I totally agree with what you're saying here. I think where we differ in opinion is when it comes to actual prints. I think you can give the quality and sell a handful of images from a session on a disc, like maybe not even 5, that are finished and ready to print. It's not the same thing as giving 20+ images from a one hour session on a disc, half of which are probably out of focus.

That last paragraph... the people who are popping out discs of 20+ sub-par images are often doing it with entry level gear, they shoot all on location so there is no studio cost, and they often have no insurance. And I've seen many that do a high volume of work as well so they end up making enough to quit their day jobs. Clients will pay for bad work because they don't know it's bad. That is the reality of this business now.

Now... jimim.... the photographer you went to... does he have a studio? Because studio portrait photographers will do a higher volume of print sales than location photographer. Something about the formal shots makes people want huge prints to hang on the wall, where they might not want them with less formal location shots. People are also generally willing to pay a lot more for formal studio shots than they're willing to pay for location work.
Studio. Been there for over 30 years. They do location also for everything. They were the first in our area years ago to start doing location shoots anywhere you wanted to go. they bring what they need. They also do weddings and such.

jimi

PS we talked about DVD's with images on them too. He was like never. and never will happen. prints only. you go in after a shoot for a consult re: what prints u want for print or album. every shoot or event they do is done like that. it's a process but again u are paying for it but the work shows in the end of it all.
jimim is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 09:46 AM   #20
photo_chick
Knows a little about a lot of things, a lot about nothing.
 
photo_chick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: in the middle of Dallas/Fort Worth
Posts: 4,871

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimim View Post
Studio. Been there for over 30 years. They do location also for everything. They were the first in our area years ago to start doing location shoots anywhere you wanted to go. they bring what they need. They also do weddings and such.

jimi

PS we talked about DVD's with images on them too. He was like never. and never will happen. prints only. you go in after a shoot for a consult re: what prints u want for print or album. every shoot or event they do is done like that. it's a process but again u are paying for it but the work shows in the end of it all.
I've already seen a few of the old, big well known studios in my area shut their doors because they didn't change their business model. There are still holdouts who want to control the entire process, just like there were when digital first came onto the scene, but we live in an age where photos are shared with social media, not by sending grandma an envelope of wallet size prints. People keep their family albums on their smartphones, iPads, or share them on their TV's. Sure, they have that big print above the fireplace but when it comes to the 5x7 for the office desk people are using digital frames. Pictures in the wallet are gone and seniors don't hand out prints to their friends anymore. It's the reality that we live in now.

But then you're also implying, like wbeem has, that giving files on a disc is always akin to fast food photography and that you can't get the same quality from a photographer who offers digital files. And that's simply not true.
__________________
Danielle

photo_chick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 11:32 AM   #21
jimim
DIS Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: NEPA
Posts: 1,164

Quote:
Originally Posted by photo_chick

I've already seen a few of the old, big well known studios in my area shut their doors because they didn't change their business model. There are still holdouts who want to control the entire process, just like there were when digital first came onto the scene, but we live in an age where photos are shared with social media, not by sending grandma an envelope of wallet size prints. People keep their family albums on their smartphones, iPads, or share them on their TV's. Sure, they have that big print above the fireplace but when it comes to the 5x7 for the office desk people are using digital frames. Pictures in the wallet are gone and seniors don't hand out prints to their friends anymore. It's the reality that we live in now.

But then you're also implying, like wbeem has, that giving files on a disc is always akin to fast food photography and that you can't get the same quality from a photographer who offers digital files. And that's simply not true.
I'M saying that's what they feel. And they, not me, are adamant about it. They won't change and I don't see them having to. They r in an area which people can afford and will use them generation to generation like we do.

Me personally I don't share my pics that I care to show off digitally. I print from White House. I don't keep OCD on my phone and rarely show stuff on my iPad. I don't use digital frames I think they suck and I'm not a fan of social sites. I use flicker but as a means to post something up here or on another board when I need to. Just me. We still get wallet size pics for my parents wallets of my kids. I guess I'm a really old fashion 35 year old! Lol

I actually just finished a 100 page album for my wife of this past year. I do one every year since we had the kids. All our Disney trips are in albums.

I would rather pay multiple hundreds of dollars for quality prints and have a high quality shoot vs going to a place like picture people and getting a disk and prints spit out while waiting. I know an extreme exams but it is real.

Again not saying there isn't people out there that do quality work and CDs bit around me there deff isn't.

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards
__________________


Animal Kingdom Lodge Jambo House June 13th for the week.

Planning Old Key West for Columbus week for 6 nights and then off to a Disney Cruise for 3 nights!
My Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/60184887@N08/

Last edited by jimim; 02-07-2013 at 12:42 PM.
jimim is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 02:07 PM   #22
photo_chick
Knows a little about a lot of things, a lot about nothing.
 
photo_chick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: in the middle of Dallas/Fort Worth
Posts: 4,871

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimim View Post
I'M saying that's what they feel. And they, not me, are adamant about it. They won't change and I don't see them having to. They r in an area which people can afford and will use them generation to generation like we do.
You're implying here, as has been a few times in this thread, that only photographers like this who still only sell prints and not digital files are somehow able to charge more. Again, simply not true. I guess the whole idea that's being put out there in this thread that you're somehow less worthy if you sell your files rather than a ton of prints is really sticking in my craw. It's not like we're talking about a studio that still makes silver or platinum prints by hand (I can sell those for more than multiple hundreds of dollars each in the right market).

Where I'm at there is most definitely a more affluent area and those are the tech savvy people who want a digital file for the images. They order that one huge print and the rest is all files. (I'm setting more art based unique processes aside here) But then again, technology is a huge industry here so maybe that slants my perspective based on my market. Or maybe it's that lab prints, even from a good lab, are just so generic to me and really don't have any more intrinsic value than the digital file.

I also keep thinking aback to a thread discussing wedding photographers on here not too long ago. And how many were scoffing at the idea of a photographer who wouldn't give out files. Some even felt that photographers should give out RAW files. It's interesting that this thread is so different in tone and somewhat derogatory to those who sell digital files.
__________________
Danielle

photo_chick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 02:42 PM   #23
jimim
DIS Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: NEPA
Posts: 1,164

Quote:
Originally Posted by photo_chick

You're implying here, as has been a few times in this thread, that only photographers like this who still only sell prints and not digital files are somehow able to charge more. Again, simply not true. I guess the whole idea that's being put out there in this thread that you're somehow less worthy if you sell your files rather than a ton of prints is really sticking in my craw. It's not like we're talking about a studio that still makes silver or platinum prints by hand (I can sell those for more than multiple hundreds of dollars each in the right market).

Where I'm at there is most definitely a more affluent area and those are the tech savvy people who want a digital file for the images. They order that one huge print and the rest is all files. (I'm setting more art based unique processes aside here) But then again, technology is a huge industry here so maybe that slants my perspective based on my market. Or maybe it's that lab prints, even from a good lab, are just so generic to me and really don't have any more intrinsic value than the digital file.

I also keep thinking aback to a thread discussing wedding photographers on here not too long ago. And how many were scoffing at the idea of a photographer who wouldn't give out files. Some even felt that photographers should give out RAW files. It's interesting that this thread is so different in tone and somewhat derogatory to those who sell digital files.
Seriously. Give out raw files. 50 percent of the general public doesn't even know what a jpg is let alone a raw file. Most people pop those card out of the camera at Walgreens to get stuff printed out. We are diff here vs the general public when it comes to photography so giving out raw files is pretty crazy I think cause they would be useless to most.

All I'm saying is what a other business though which was similar to what William said. And also that I appreciate old fashion quality print over a digital screen or the whole social media hoopla.

Jimi

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards
__________________


Animal Kingdom Lodge Jambo House June 13th for the week.

Planning Old Key West for Columbus week for 6 nights and then off to a Disney Cruise for 3 nights!
My Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/60184887@N08/
jimim is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 03:48 PM   #24
photo_chick
Knows a little about a lot of things, a lot about nothing.
 
photo_chick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: in the middle of Dallas/Fort Worth
Posts: 4,871

I'll strongly disagree that what you get from a lab is anything like an old fashioned print and leave this discussion at that. But as someone who still works in a darkroom and uses early photographic processes I'm biased towards hands on printing.

And I agree giving out RAW files is unusual and not something I would do. I consider my edited jpeg to be a finished product and that's what I sell. But it was a topic in the other thread and some felt they should be able to purchase RAW files.
__________________
Danielle

photo_chick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 05:06 PM   #25
jimim
DIS Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: NEPA
Posts: 1,164

Quote:
Originally Posted by photo_chick
I'll strongly disagree that what you get from a lab is anything like an old fashioned print and leave this discussion at that. But as someone who still works in a darkroom and uses early photographic processes I'm biased towards hands on printing.

And I agree giving out RAW files is unusual and not something I would do. I consider my edited jpeg to be a finished product and that's what I sell. But it was a topic in the other thread and some felt they should be able to purchase RAW files.
Sorry I forgot ever word on the Internet is literal so I didn't mean old fashion. I appreciate high quality prints and this studio prides itself on its quality of prints. And wdcc isn't too shabby either.

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards
__________________


Animal Kingdom Lodge Jambo House June 13th for the week.

Planning Old Key West for Columbus week for 6 nights and then off to a Disney Cruise for 3 nights!
My Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/60184887@N08/
jimim is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 06:03 PM   #26
wbeem
DIS Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 1,396

Quote:
Originally Posted by photo_chick View Post
You're implying here, as has been a few times in this thread, that only photographers like this who still only sell prints and not digital files are somehow able to charge more. Again, simply not true. I guess the whole idea that's being put out there in this thread that you're somehow less worthy if you sell your files rather than a ton of prints is really sticking in my craw.
"Less worthy" is not my implication. "Less business savvy" is more like it. Sure, you can sell files on a DVD, but that limits potential sales and makes it much more difficult to make a living as a photographer.

By delivering images on a CD/DVD, the net result is that you're also depriving your clients of an experience. There's this concept that people don't know they want something if they've never seen it. Henry Ford used to say that if he listened to his customers, they would have just asked for a faster horse.
wbeem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 06:50 PM   #27
Gianna'sPapa
DIS Veteran
 
Gianna'sPapa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Elgin, Il.
Posts: 3,643

This is a very interesting topic because it involves a side of photography that I don't experience. Being a staff photographer for a motorsports complex, I shoot a completely different style. When I shoot an event, I shoot it in RAW and JPEG. I keep the RAW and the track gets the JPEG. They get everything I shoot just as it came out of the camera. If there is something obviously terrible with no image, I may delete that one, but everything else they get. I get no time to process the images. They have used out-of-focus images in their advertising (much to my dismay) if it works for the point they are trying to make. They may use a part of an image, their graphic designers may totally change the image. Its all done for what fits their marketing strategy. Even when I shoot guest drivers its all done on the fly with little to no time for setup and heaven forbid I ever get to adjust lighting! Last year after the Daytona 500, the winner (Matt Kenseth) made a media swing through Chicago. I did a day of Matt interacting with fans and sponsors at four different locations. The same when we had a day with Danica Patrick, Ricky Stenhouse Jr. and Justin Allgaier at Oak Street Beach. It was outside with the weather going from Sunny to Cloudy to Rain. Keeping up with the changing lighting conditions was a challenge. Part of the problem with sports photography today is the internet and Twitter. Folks are satisfied with images from a P & S or cellphone. The quality doesn't matter. Only the speed to which you can post it! The day of the freelancing sports photography is dying fast if it isn't already dead. After an event, I may get time to go back and PP some of the images. Some of those then find there way either to a team (usually a local drag racing low buck operation looking an image for some marketing) or posters around the tracks. Photography is a tough business today!
Gianna'sPapa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 07:07 PM   #28
wbeem
DIS Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 1,396

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gianna'sPapa View Post
Being a staff photographer for a motorsports complex, I shoot a completely different style.
Yep, and there are tons of people who sign up with wire services just for the hope of doing what you're doing. Some are good, some not. They value the access and the experience more than money.

Then there are some who think they want do to what you do and would gladly quit after they found out how much work you really do.
wbeem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 07:39 PM   #29
boBQuincy
I am not carrying three pods
There's something about the smell of the chemicals that just shouts "Photography!"
 
boBQuincy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: NC
Posts: 4,565

We met Tanner at Magic Kingdom and could immediately tell he was not the typical Photopass photographer. Some Photopass photographers are good, Tanner is *exceptional*! He may not be what the OP is looking for but he has a lot of great ideas and the skills (and hard work) with which to turn the ideas into a photograph.

http://www.tannerochel.com/#/home
__________________
"Well, then, I confess. It's my intention to commandeer one of these ships, pick up a crew in Tortuga, raid, pillage, plunder, and otherwise pilfer my weasly black guts out."

"Take the big pill, and go back to the SLR you know. Take the small micro 4/3 pill and you will never look at SLRs the same way again." a G3 and now a GX7. Photos at: suzieandbob.com

Our model monorail site: http://monorail.suzieandbob.com/

boBQuincy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 09:04 PM   #30
jude&jonah
Mouseketeer
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 309

As a high end photographer in Connecticut (bellportraits.com) - I think most of the time most people who don't get it will only get it after having a very poor experience with a very unprofessional, unskilled "snapshot taker". There is no reasoning these days in the photography industry- it's a very destroyed, misunderstood industry unfortunately.
__________________
Erin

1995- Caribbean Beach / 1998 x2- Boardwalk & Fort Wilderness / 2002- Sheraton Vistana
2006- Sheraton Vistana / 2006 to 2007- Grand Floridian Cast Member /
2011- Coronado Springs / 2013 Caribbean Beach & Polynesian Split-Stay
Booked for March 2014 for 6 nights at Coronado Springs!
jude&jonah is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

facebooktwitterpinterestgoogle plusyoutubeDIS Updates
GET OUR DIS UPDATES DELIVERED BY EMAIL



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:59 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Copyright © 1997-2014, Werner Technologies, LLC. All Rights Reserved.