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Old 01-31-2013, 10:27 PM   #16
sayhello
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cslittle999 View Post
I do have some concerns about where Disney could go with the MagicBands. Imagine RFID sensors at the entrance to every ride and store. It's possible for a reader to pickup chips in about a 3 foot radius. This would give Disney the potential to actually track your path through the park. This does sound fairly paranoid but it is all quite possible.
I don't understand. Why do you care if they know where you are in the park, or what rides you are going on? What do you think they're going to do with that information that is so dire?

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Old 01-31-2013, 10:43 PM   #17
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First, let me answer the question asked. No, I am not concerned.

If this truly concerns you, I recommend some significant precautions including:

-get rid of your loyalty cards
-stop paying with credit cards for anything
-ditch your frequent travel cards
-don't use a mobile phone
-cancel your Internet service
-stop on line purchases
-no more google
-cancel your etoll transponder
-give up your us passport

And the list goes on and on

All the mentioned service do detailed tracking of you.

I am not saying we should not hold Disney or any other organization/corporation to privacy standards. I am just saying it is not very realistic in this day and age to say you are not going to use a service simply because you might be tracked in some manner. You can decline to participate but you will leave many benefits on the table. I like the free airline tickets I earn. I like the discounts I get at the grocery store. I like all the free google services.
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:16 PM   #18
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A big concern I have is if Disney makes this work is it going to cross over into the rest of my life at some point on a larger scale than what is done now? Is this the beginning of my every move being tracked? I have already seen other companies take Disney's business practices/ideas and implement them in their own business. I particularly do not want the govt to get any such ideas. I know many will say that can not happen because of laws and our rights etc. The problem is laws can be changed and some rights particularly when it comes to privacy have to an extent been taken away already.

Despite all of the concerns I don't know if we will use it because as much as I like to plan I do not like the idea of scheduling my fastpass times so far in advance. I also do not like it is only for one park each day. We already do not attach a c/c to our room card so that isn't an issue for us. However I didn't like how their online check-in made me give my c/c number in order to use online check-in this past Dec. In the past it asked if you wanted a c/c attached and if you clicked no it did not require a card number but this time there was no way to opt out. When I got to the resort sure enough they had attached it to my room card so I had them remove it. Hopefully that was not a sign of things to come.

I think on Disney's end the biggest issue is going to be that so much more is having to be done online. I am very frustrated with their photopass website right now that I don't know if I will buy it again. Their website can not keep up with the number of pictures and people on at any one time. I can only imagine the frustration trying to book/change fastpass times etc. Esp from inside the park where 1000's are trying to do the same thing over their wifi setup.
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:44 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sayhello
I don't understand. Why do you care if they know where you are in the park, or what rides you are going on? What do you think they're going to do with that information that is so dire?

Sayhello
Overly targeted marketing. Knowing what I purchase is one thing but knowing which stores I enter, where in the store I go and how long I spend in each part is too much. Imagine a text message encouraging you to go back to a store you visited earlier in the day because Disney knows you're more likely to buy from stores you visited in the morning and spent more than 10 minutes in. It's stalker creepy.

Take this out of the Disney context. If it was a different company would you allow it? Would you allow it at home? I think everyone is giving Disney a break because we like them but they are still a large corporate entity and they are going to aggressively use the information that they collect.
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:47 AM   #20
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Raspberry Pi + RFID Reader + Cellular Data Card = Nefarious people Tracking guests' Magic Bands as they enter and leave a resort. Nothing like telling the crooks that you are leaving.

I am not worried about Disney using the information as much as I am about the ability of someone putting a transponder on my wrist that any yahoo with $50 in parts can read and track my movements and patterns.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=FgQjsUUiNrE

The MagicBands transmit in the clear and not encrypted because the bands are only transmitting a unique ID number, like a serial number. The distance a band can be read is determined by the Antenna on the reader and the antenna on the band. The band has gain of +/-0db, so the power of the reader antenna is what determines the distance that the band can be read. a 12db antenna will have a theoretical distance of around 10 meters. A 20db antenna (Yagi or Corner reflector) will be able to read your MagicBand at 20 meters.

Disney is only considering the direct impacts of RFID and not the indirect impacts.
I get your point and you do bring up some good ones. But, what would someone gain by putting that much effort into reading the cards?
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:54 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by cslittle999 View Post
Overly targeted marketing. Knowing what I purchase is one thing but knowing which stores I enter, where in the store I go and how long I spend in each part is too much. Imagine a text message encouraging you to go back to a store you visited earlier in the day because Disney knows you're more likely to buy from stores you visited in the morning and spent more than 10 minutes in. It's stalker creepy.

Take this out of the Disney context. If it was a different company would you allow it? Would you allow it at home? I think everyone is giving Disney a break because we like them but they are still a large corporate entity and they are going to aggressively use the information that they collect.
I don't think we are going to see that level of location based tracking. Maybe they track you entering a store but I doubt there going to setup readers at different locations in a store.

Truthfully, I dont think there is going to be any location based tracking other then situations where you scan your card yourself. Like when using to pay or using a fastpass.
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:56 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Mike2023 View Post
I get your point and you do bring up some good ones. But, what would someone gain by putting that much effort into reading the cards?
There are lots of security scenarios where the "element" is looking for an upper hand. In this case petty theft, robbery, burglary, etc would be on the list. I am waiting to see the exploit for the RFID controlled doors.
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:09 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by k5jmh View Post
There are lots of security scenarios where the "element" is looking for an upper hand. In this case petty theft, robbery, burglary, etc would be on the list. I am waiting to see the exploit for the RFID controlled doors.
There will be an exploit for the doors just as there are ones for the old style card doorlocks. Its inevitable and the fact that its RFID changes nothing. No system will ever be 100% secure.

But how would someone skimming the information (TBD on what info it might even be) of my magicband would help in the scenarios you provide that is not currently a risk without. I just dont see how me walking by your scanner and possibly you having the information on my card would make be more likely to be a victim then someone who has not.
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:17 PM   #24
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I don't think we are going to see that level of location based tracking. Maybe they track you entering a store but I doubt there going to setup readers at different locations in a store.

Truthfully, I dont think there is going to be any location based tracking other then situations where you scan your card yourself. Like when using to pay or using a fastpass.
I would hope not but again I ask if this was at your local mall would you be as comfortable? In the end we're saying that we think Disney wouldn't do anything like this but once the infrastructure is in place it will become tempting for them to do it. They can even do it inside their existing privacy agreement.

When it's all said and done I will likely use a wrist band. I'm just going into it knowing that I'm giving up some privacy and the amount of privacy I'm giving up is likely to increase over time.
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:43 PM   #25
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One thing I am unclear about is if this is a non-removable thing. Do I have to wear this thing in the shower or can I take it off whenever I like? For me, the biggest ick factor is being stuck with an unsightly wide band on my wrist for a week of dirt and grime and if I will have ridiculous looking tan lines. (I'm shallow)
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:44 PM   #26
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I would hope not but again I ask if this was at your local mall would you be as comfortable? In the end we're saying that we think Disney wouldn't do anything like this but once the infrastructure is in place it will become tempting for them to do it. They can even do it inside their existing privacy agreement.

When it's all said and done I will likely use a wrist band. I'm just going into it knowing that I'm giving up some privacy and the amount of privacy I'm giving up is likely to increase over time.
I don't think I would have an issue with it personally. I can't see it impacting me in a negative way if my mall knows I like to shop at X store versus Y store.

The more detailed information they have when it comes to marketing is only going to allow them to market more meaningful information to me.
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:45 PM   #27
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One thing I am unclear about is if this is a non-removable thing. Do I have to wear this thing in the shower or can I take it off whenever I like? For me, the biggest ick factor is being stuck with an unsightly wide band on my wrist for a week of dirt and grime and if I will have ridiculous looking tan lines. (I'm shallow)
As of right now, everything points to a removable band. But no one is sure yet.
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Old 02-01-2013, 02:58 PM   #28
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I just dont see how me walking by your scanner and possibly you having the information on my card would make be more likely to be a victim then someone who has not.
You are not looking at skimming information. You are reading the ID number and using the ID # to track someone's movements. If you know when someone enters or leaves a resort, then someone can use that opportunity the try and gain access to a resort room. There have been more complicated scams pulled on folks at resorts.
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Old 02-01-2013, 03:27 PM   #29
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I don't think I would have an issue with it personally. I can't see it impacting me in a negative way if my mall knows I like to shop at X store versus Y store.

The more detailed information they have when it comes to marketing is only going to allow them to market more meaningful information to me.
Getting you to buy things isn't always in your best interest. Imagine deals that are only offered when your kids are with you. It isn't marketing to kids but it makes it harder to say no. I'm not saying that Disney would do these things but just that it is possible.

In some ways this is no different than tracking cookies on the web. Sometimes we want advertisers to know where we've been and sometimes we don't.
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Old 02-01-2013, 04:22 PM   #30
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Do I have privacy concerns? Yes, but not with Disney. Disney does not sell my information, my bank does.
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