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Old 01-31-2013, 03:15 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by havoc315 View Post
I really don't understand your rudeness. Did I criticize anyone else's choices?

I said that the PL2 would not be a step up in image quality from the Pentax K-X. (I'm not comparing every mirrorless camera to every dSLR.. I was specifically commenting on the OP's options.. her current dSLR versus the mirrorless cameras she was considering).

So ok, let's look at the most respected objective source, DXOmark:

DXOmark rates the Pentax K-X color depth as 22.8 bits. That's better than the PL2, which comes in at 21.4 bits.

In dynamic range, it's not really close -- The Pentax K-X at 12.5 EV, versus only 10.2 for the PL2.

Total image quality.. DXO rates the K-X at 72. The PL2 gets a score of 55.

So yes, I try my best to thoroughly research before I speak. I'm not always right, don't pretend to be. But I try to bring an educated voice to the discussion.
And as I just proved, everything I said was fully accurate.

You also tend to get hung up on the statistics. Stats are great to get an idea of what you might want but far too many people let them play a larger role in the decision making process than they have in the practice of photography.
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:20 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by photo_chick View Post
You also tend to get hung up on the statistics. Stats are great to get an idea of what you might want but far too many people let them play a larger role in the decision making process than they have in the practice of photography.
Agreed. I'm not suggesting that a 0.5 EV difference in dynamic range should drive anyone's decision making. (for example).

But as I was challenged in my rather innocuous statement that the PL2 was a step down in image quality compared to the K-X (I never said it was a huge step down), as I was put on the defensive with an implication that the PL2 has better color depth than the K-X, I simply cited the only available objective resource in self-defense.
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Old 01-31-2013, 05:22 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by JoeDif View Post
The Olympus 4/3 line is a traditional DSLR setup using internal mirror box and an optical viewfinder

The m4/3 line which includes the PEN line and the newer O-MD are part of the mirrorless cameras mentioned above. The O-MD does have a built-in EVF while the PEN linup does not.

Both formats use th same 4/3 sensor, which is slightly smaller than an APS-C sensor. m4/3 cameras can use 4/3 lenses with an adapter but 4/3 cameras can not use m4/3 lenses.
I' confused. I don't know why but it seems there r so many diff mounts with mirror less?

So just the mirrorless line. . . both have a 4/3 sensor? but above u saif the PEN and O-MD line are m4/3 so they can use both sets of lens but with an adaptor for the 4/3 lens?

I think i'm confused cause I shoot Canon so it is a APS-C sensor not 4/3. The Olympus SLR line is a 4/3 sensor not APS-C sensor? correct?

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Old 01-31-2013, 06:07 PM   #34
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I' confused. I don't know why but it seems there r so many diff mounts with mirror less?

Correct. Many different camera manufacturers produce mirrorless cameras. Olympus, Nikon, Panasonic, Canon, Fuji...etc.


So just the mirrorless line. . . both have a 4/3 sensor? but above u saif the PEN and O-MD line are m4/3 so they can use both sets of lens but with an adaptor for the 4/3 lens?

Correct again. The Olympus 4/3 DSLR line and the PEN / O-MD m4/3 line both use the same size sensor but the lens mounts are different.


I think i'm confused cause I shoot Canon so it is a APS-C sensor not 4/3. The Olympus SLR line is a 4/3 sensor not APS-C sensor? correct?

Correct again. Olympus and Panasonic both use the 4/3 sensor, different from the APS-C sensor used by Canon, Nikon, Pentax, etc.

jim

See above
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:09 PM   #35
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I may be wrong here, but I thought Olympus used micro 4/3, a slightly smaller sensor, on their mirrorless. The same as Panasonic. The 4/3 on their DSLR's is a little bit larger.
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:35 PM   #36
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I may be wrong here, but I thought Olympus used micro 4/3, a slightly smaller sensor, on their mirrorless. The same as Panasonic. The 4/3 on their DSLR's is a little bit larger.
All of the Olympus DSLR 4/3 cameras and m4/3 cameras use the same sized sensor. They have increased the MP's on the newer models to 16MP as opposed to 12MP on the older sensors
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Old 02-01-2013, 06:31 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by JoeDif

All of the Olympus DSLR 4/3 cameras and m4/3 cameras use the same sized sensor. They have increased the MP's on the newer models to 16MP as opposed to 12MP on the older sensors
Joe so if u was looking at an Olympus m4/3 what should I be looking for when shopping glass regarding mount? Just make sure it fits a micro 4/3 mount? If just talking the new smaller lens. Not traditional glass with an adaptor.

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Old 02-01-2013, 08:05 AM   #38
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Joe so if u was looking at an Olympus m4/3 what should I be looking for when shopping glass regarding mount? Just make sure it fits a micro 4/3 mount? If just talking the new smaller lens. Not traditional glass with an adaptor.

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Yes just make sure the lens has a m4/3 mount. Various manufacturers are now making lenses with that mount such as Olympus, Panasonic, Sigma, Lenbaby. Tamron just announced a m4/3 lens but it isn't out yet. Also Samyang make manual focus lenses for m4/3.
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Old 02-01-2013, 08:21 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by JoeDif View Post
All of the Olympus DSLR 4/3 cameras and m4/3 cameras use the same sized sensor. They have increased the MP's on the newer models to 16MP as opposed to 12MP on the older sensors
There is so much on the web about these systems that contradicts itself I can see why the OP's head is spinning. I've read several articles that say the micro 4/3 is a hair smaller, and several that say they're the same size just with different mounts. And if it confuses someone like me, who knows a little bit about photography, I can't imagine how it must seem to a beginner. Confusion like this is why I miss film.
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Old 02-01-2013, 08:43 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeDif View Post
Yes just make sure the lens has a m4/3 mount. Various manufacturers are now making lenses with that mount such as Olympus, Panasonic, Sigma, Lenbaby. Tamron just announced a m4/3 lens but it isn't out yet. Also Samyang make manual focus lenses for m4/3.
This is one of the best things about micro 4/3, because it isn't just a mount, it is a standard that any manufacturer can buy into. Unlike other lens mounts where the 3rd party has to reverse engineer the mount and protocol, micro 4/3 provides the original specifications so there is no question that all the lenses will function properly.

Voigtlander and SLRmagic also make native micro 4/3 lenses and Zeiss is planning to. At least one other camera manufacturer has joined the standard lately.
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Old 02-01-2013, 09:40 AM   #41
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Thanks for all the great info. I agree that micro is a very hard group to understand. It's deff an interesting piece of equipment though. I really would love to buy one to play with but there r so many other things I want for my slr right now like a larger airport travel bag and new "forever" tripod and some more glass of course.

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Old 02-01-2013, 11:58 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by photo_chick View Post
There is so much on the web about these systems that contradicts itself I can see why the OP's head is spinning. I've read several articles that say the micro 4/3 is a hair smaller, and several that say they're the same size just with different mounts. And if it confuses someone like me, who knows a little bit about photography, I can't imagine how it must seem to a beginner. Confusion like this is why I miss film.
People get the terminology confused. I often see the sensors referred to as "micro four third sensors", when in fact they are 4:3 sensors in either the dSLR or mirrorless/micro four thirds lines. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_Four_Thirds_system

What is "slightly smaller" is the lens mount. Micro 4:3 lens mounts are 6mm smaller in diameter than on the 4:3 dSLRs, hence the need for an adaptor, although the digitally-designed lenses will work the same way.

It's actually pretty simple technology, really. It's just that most people aren't very familiar with it. And there are now a lot of m4:3 camera choices, which have evolved as improvements were sought. More and more lens choices as well.

Read more: http://www.four-thirds.org/en/

Micro four third Gold Standard, the Olympus O-MD EM-5, voted Best Camera of 2012 by dpreview.com users:

http://www.getolympus.com/us/en/
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:33 PM   #43
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I wonder what the advice would be if the dslr the OP has was a Nikon or Canon?

Is the perception that the dslr in question is a pentax there fore it is inferior? therefore getting a micro4/3rds is a better option?

I own a pentax and thought about going for smaller size /weight but didn't want to lose quality, depth of field, high iso. Yes I can get the equivalent in a smaller body but I would have to pay more than what my pentax cost!

The K-x is a light weight dslr and one of the smaller ones. 123 x 92 x 68 mm for the Pentax compared with say Olym e-Pen3 122 x 69 x 34 mm

Buying in to a new system will still leave you with the problem of having to buy new lenses eventually.
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:03 PM   #44
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I wonder what the advice would be if the dslr the OP has was a Nikon or Canon?

Is the perception that the dslr in question is a pentax there fore it is inferior? therefore getting a micro4/3rds is a better option?
I don't think so. Most of us on this thread are in the 4:3 camp and so are used to being the "other" after Canon, Nikon, Sony and Pentax. In other words, we're even lower! so no worries there.

I think, on this thread, it's more about making a choice because the OP wants something smaller yet still capable:
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I want something smaller and lighter to carry around with me in the parks.
It seems to be something a lot of folks are re-evaluating for themselves these days as technology improves and more user-friendly and smaller options become available. I think the Op and others are just tossing around the options because she specifically asked about the PEN. Many others are curious about this as well, but there is still some negativity out there that exists - as you no doubt are familiar with yourself - that we're trying to help clear up a bit.

The thing is, we know darn right well that good images come not so much from the camera itself, but from the person behind the lens (although having a decent piece of equipment helps, of course). And micro four thirds is decent equipment, and very worthy of consideration for those looking for what the OP is looking for.
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:21 PM   #45
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I wonder what the advice would be if the dslr the OP has was a Nikon or Canon?

Is the perception that the dslr in question is a pentax there fore it is inferior? therefore getting a micro4/3rds is a better option?
Nope, my only beef was the continued use of the phrase "DSLR quality image". I'm not quite sure what that means. The reference was that the PEN cameras were good but didn't quite reach the level of DSLR quality.
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