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Old 01-30-2013, 06:40 PM   #1
mytripsandraces
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MyMagic+ and APs

I haven't read all of the threads about what people think will happen when MyMagic+ goes live, but has anyone else considered the possibility that APs might be discontinued, too? According to some posters (I can't see the new site from my old browser), they've already gotten rid of the no-expiration option on tickets.
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Old 01-30-2013, 06:52 PM   #2
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No Expiration Tickets were only eliminated from the online Disney site. They are still available via phone and at the ticket kiosks at the parks.

From the Orlando Sentinel:

Quote:
'No-expire' option lives on for Disney tickets  just not for online purchases
January 23, 2013|By Dewayne Bevil, Orlando Sentinel
Disney World has altered the way it sells the "no-expire" option on theme-park tickets. That selection, which allows multiday tickets to be used any time in the future, no longer will be available online. The no-expire add-on continues to be available via phone or at theme park front gates, a Disney spokeswoman said Tuesday.

Adding "park hopper" status, which allows a ticketholder to move between all four parks in a single day, and the water-park option can still be purchased online at DisneyWorld.com.
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Old 01-31-2013, 05:51 PM   #3
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I've heard that they also changed signage at the ticket booths to no mention the No Expire option any longer, but haven't confirmed.

They've already said that AP holders will be able to fully participate in MyMagic+. Word is that you'll get the basic band for free like resort guests, and can buy the designer ones.

I think it's more that the No Expire option presented a complication with how tickets vs. the MagicBands/DME profiles link up, considering that a No Expire ticket can last a lot longer than the battery in a MagicBand, so they just want to reduce the issues by not advertising it as much. Just my guessing though.
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Old 01-31-2013, 07:05 PM   #4
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I honestly cannot see them removing APs. That'd be a huge mistake for them financially.
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Old 01-31-2013, 07:40 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *NikkiBell* View Post
I honestly cannot see them removing APs. That'd be a huge mistake for them financially.
How does that work? They charge less than a 10-day no-expiration for a full year. If they lowered gate prices and got rid of the AP, they'd still get more money, wouldn't they, assuming people don't change their visiting habits too much. They seem to lose a lot of money on Florida residents.
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Old 01-31-2013, 07:56 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mytripsandraces View Post
How does that work? They charge less than a 10-day no-expiration for a full year. If they lowered gate prices and got rid of the AP, they'd still get more money, wouldn't they, assuming people don't change their visiting habits too much. They seem to lose a lot of money on Florida residents.
My thinking is that APs equal more time in the parks and more money spent. They also get a big bundle of money up front when guests buy. I realize that APs aren't the main bulk of the income that's coming in, but I still think it is profitable for them. They would have gotten rid of them at WDW and DL a long time ago then.

You also need to consider the fact that many AP holders are not FL residents. These guests come down for longer trips or several trips within a year. That equals a lot of money for Disney.
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:17 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doconeill View Post
I think it's more that the No Expire option presented a complication with how tickets vs. the MagicBands/DME profiles link up, considering that a No Expire ticket can last a lot longer than the battery in a MagicBand, so they just want to reduce the issues by not advertising it as much. Just my guessing though.
No Battery in a Magic Band. Passive MagicBands use the radio energy transmitted by an active (powered) reader as its energy source. The MagicBands will have a much longer life expectancy than most soft media.
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:25 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mytripsandraces View Post
How does that work? They charge less than a 10-day no-expiration for a full year. If they lowered gate prices and got rid of the AP, they'd still get more money, wouldn't they, assuming people don't change their visiting habits too much. They seem to lose a lot of money on Florida residents.
I don't understand why everyone keeps saying that Florida Residents don't spend money at Disney. Yes, I have an AP, but I also spend a minimum of 30 nights on property per year (usually closer to 40 nights) and most of those are not with an AP discount. In fact, out of the three trips booked so far for this year, none of them are at an AP discount. I eat exclusively on property during my stays, and I buy souvenirs and gifts on every trip. I'm sure I'm not the only one either.

But when you read the boards, there are many, many more non-Florida residents with AP's posting about AP issues than those of us who live nearby. I am sure that a lot of them would think twice about that second or third trip each year if they were having to purchase tickets every time.
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:27 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by k5jmh View Post
No Battery in a Magic Band. Passive MagicBands use the radio energy transmitted by an active (powered) reader as its energy source. The MagicBands will have a much longer life expectancy than most soft media.
There IS a battery in the MagicBands. If you want you can read the FCC filings It's non-replaceable as it is encased in the plastic with the chips and antenna.

The MagicBands will contain two RFID chips (one for HF and one for UHF - not exactly sure why they need two), PLUS an RF transmitter working at the 2.4GHz band (same as Wi-Fi) that permits reception at a longer range than the RFID chips (at best they are read at 1-2m in normal circumstances, much shorter is more typical). This is the part that Iger's Markey response refers to when saying that those who opt for RFID cards may not get to experience all the features, as they won't have the transmitter or battery. I believe somewhere in Iger's response it also mentions the transmitter.

Although the 2.4GHz band is typically effective to 300 feet outdoors, if they are using a lower power output (and these will only put out a fraction of a watt, much less than a cell phone), the range will be lower and the battery should last well enough. I'm hearing the effective range is 10-15 feet.

This transmitter is believed to trigger some of the new "experiences", like personalized items on attractions and information for the characters for the meet and greets, so it won't require having to explicitly scan their MagicBands. And it's part of what has people concerned.
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fla4fun View Post
I don't understand why everyone keeps saying that Florida Residents don't spend money at Disney. Yes, I have an AP, but I also spend a minimum of 30 nights on property per year (usually closer to 40 nights) and most of those are not with an AP discount. In fact, out of the three trips booked so far for this year, none of them are at an AP discount. I eat exclusively on property during my stays, and I buy souvenirs and gifts on every trip. I'm sure I'm not the only one either.

But when you read the boards, there are many, many more non-Florida residents with AP's posting about AP issues than those of us who live nearby. I am sure that a lot of them would think twice about that second or third trip each year if they were having to purchase tickets every time.
I wasn't referring to the money spent in the parks. I meant that if a Florida AP goes 30 days a year, Disney is losing the gate on most of those days, but they're still getting the crowd. AP holders also get discounts on food and merchandise, so they're not paying as much for food and merchandise as people who have paid to come in. I'm a Premier passholder who lives in NYC. I don't spend a month in the parks, but I am definitely visiting for free by the end of the year. I guess what I want to know is whether or not the AP visitors spend enough in the parks to make up for the loss of the gate for each of the subsequent visits after they've covered the cost of the pass.
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:49 PM   #11
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You said, "assuming people don't change their visiting habits too much," but I think the APs DO change the habits.

With the PAP discount for DVC, I'm planning several trips within the next year+. I wouldn't be planning that many normally.

They may lose on the gate from all those admissions, but they could be gaining on in-park spending - and I'd bet FL residents would visit a LOT less if they didn't have the AP options.
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Old 01-31-2013, 09:07 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doconeill View Post
There IS a battery in the MagicBands. If you want you can read the FCC filings It's non-replaceable as it is encased in the plastic with the chips and antenna.

The MagicBands will contain two RFID chips (one for HF and one for UHF - not exactly sure why they need two), PLUS an RF transmitter working at the 2.4GHz band (same as Wi-Fi) that permits reception at a longer range than the RFID chips (at best they are read at 1-2m in normal circumstances, much shorter is more typical). This is the part that Iger's Markey response refers to when saying that those who opt for RFID cards may not get to experience all the features, as they won't have the transmitter or battery. I believe somewhere in Iger's response it also mentions the transmitter.

Although the 2.4GHz band is typically effective to 300 feet outdoors, if they are using a lower power output (and these will only put out a fraction of a watt, much less than a cell phone), the range will be lower and the battery should last well enough. I'm hearing the effective range is 10-15 feet.

This transmitter is believed to trigger some of the new "experiences", like personalized items on attractions and information for the characters for the meet and greets, so it won't require having to explicitly scan their MagicBands. And it's part of what has people concerned.
The RFID will not need power, so the 2.4ghz will be used for NFC, using bluetooth. I suspect that one of the RFID tags is used in conjunction with the NFC and the other is used for Room/Ticket/Purchase authorizations. I was told that one RFID tag is considered the public tag and the other is considered the private RFID Tag. That makes a little more sense now.
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Old 01-31-2013, 09:19 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doconeill View Post
You said, "assuming people don't change their visiting habits too much," but I think the APs DO change the habits.

With the PAP discount for DVC, I'm planning several trips within the next year+. I wouldn't be planning that many normally.

They may lose on the gate from all those admissions, but they could be gaining on in-park spending - and I'd bet FL residents would visit a LOT less if they didn't have the AP options.
I was referring to the Florida visitors in that first statement. Gate-wise, Disney loses a lot more on the Florida AP holders than us non-local AP holders. Do they make the money back in food and souvenir sales?
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Old 01-31-2013, 09:33 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by k5jmh View Post
The RFID will not need power, so the 2.4ghz will be used for NFC, using bluetooth. I suspect that one of the RFID tags is used in conjunction with the NFC and the other is used for Room/Ticket/Purchase authorizations. I was told that one RFID tag is considered the public tag and the other is considered the private RFID Tag. That makes a little more sense now.
NFC is a specific technology that operates at a different frequency. Bluetooth does operate at 2.4 so it could be related, but the bands are supposed to be transmit only so they don't need to be as complex. And of course they need to be cheap The public/private distinction makes so some sense but the word private might infer more security than it really has. More likely it is just too make it more difficult to skim both codes by being at different frequencies.

I would assume for security the transmitter uses a third code only for the trackers and irrelevant for other uses.
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Old 01-31-2013, 09:52 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doconeill View Post
NFC is a specific technology that operates at a different frequency. Bluetooth does operate at 2.4 so it could be related, but the bands are supposed to be transmit only so they don't need to be as complex. And of course they need to be cheap The public/private distinction makes so some sense but the word private might infer more security than it really has. More likely it is just too make it more difficult to skim both codes by being at different frequencies.

I would assume for security the transmitter uses a third code only for the trackers and irrelevant for other uses.
I was referring to a generic Near Field Communications device and not the NFC standard. I think that it is more akin to Zigbee, like what is in use with the Glow with the show ears.
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