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Old 01-29-2013, 09:18 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeandReneePlus5 View Post
PS I should have known better than to ask a bunch of photo junkies on the DIS about whether L glass or the equivalent is worth it
The question for me is justification not worth. Good glass is always worth it. But can I justify dropping that kind of cash on myself?

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Originally Posted by SplashMo View Post
Zoom starting at 28mm is not a good idea on a cropped APS-C body. The 70-200 f4 is nice for sports. However not nice at night for sports. The 2.8 works better for that. The 85/1.8 is a nice lens. You might also like the 35mm/f2 orthe 28mm/1.8 neither are fantastic but they are fast and useful.
Going to have to disagree. As I've said before, my walk around has been a 28-105 forever. On a crop body since 2005. It works very well for me. Now there are times, now and then, that I do need wider. THat's why I have a wider lens in my bag. So while it may not be wide enough for everyone, as a walk around 28mm is more than wide enough for me. And I'm going to disagree on a 70-200 f/4 for night sports. It really depends on the situation the photographer and the camera, but I've used my 70-210 f/4 for night pee wee football games (played in a high school stadium). The f/2.8 would certainly be easier, but the f/4 is totally workable.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:51 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by MikeandReneePlus5 View Post
you know it's funny...they have such a strong internet precense
I forget that B&H and Adorama are actual physical locations right in NYC...another great idea

PS I should have known better than to ask a bunch of photo junkies on the DIS about whether L glass or the equivalent is worth it
I forgot too that Adorama is in NYC too. B&H is my favorite stop in NYC besides my dad's cousin's 2 restaurants. I'm going out there again March 8th to shop for the day and then we will go eat and come home. It's a easy 2 hr drive for us.

L glass deff has it's place. my 85mm is the regular. I couldn't see lugging that huge 85mm L around. Plus for my purpose it's more than sharp enough and a great price. Now for my next purchase I'm going to put down the money for the new 24-70mm L canon cause I know it will be on my camera everyday for ever pretty much. I know the Tamron is half the price and that's another reason for the trip to B&H.

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Old 01-29-2013, 12:09 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by photo_chick View Post
The question for me is justification not worth. Good glass is always worth it. But can I justify dropping that kind of cash on myself?
I totally agree. And here is how my justification works. All numbers are authentic and isn't it amazing how it works out? the lens gods have spoken: I must get these lenses:

70-200mm f/4L $560 New at Best Buy
24-105mm f/4L $740 Used at Various

Total Funds out - $1300

Fantasy football winnings sitting on my dresser $600
Coin jar dumped into over last year or so (rolled last night) $225
Sell 18-135mm $225 (net)
Best Buy Rewards Certs from Xmas purchases for kids $45
Who tickets purchased last summer for Feb show. I can't go becasue I must visit my wife's brother's baby. (and I guess. I do like babies. And my brother in law, sort of) Sell on Stub Hub $205 (net)

Total Funds In - $1300.

I mean, really, you can't make this stuff up! It's all in the category of "found money".

AND, this may be the best part, I still have $700 in Chase Sapphire rewards to use for the new dishwasher my family wants. no spousal guilt!!!

Off to Best Buy I go.
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:27 PM   #19
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I'm really anxious to hear what you think of your new lenses.

I'm in a similar spot, so I read your thread with great interest. I haven't had a new lens in a couple years and am itching for a new toy. I have several directions I might go, but no single direction that's just YELLING at me.

I want a 2.8 IS telephoto lens. I'm prepared for the cost, but not for the heft. So I wait.

I have considered something like the 24-105 just to have a little more reach on my camera more often, but don't want to give up the wide end. I love my 17-55 f/2.8 a lot, but a little extra reach in my walkaround is tempting.

I'm considering ditching my Canon 10-22 to go back to the Tokina 11-16 just so I have the 2.8 again. I really missed that indoors at Disney this last trip (especially at Be Our Guest!).

Or maybe I'll just ditch the T2i and upgrade to the T4i.

But I don't have the drive for any one particular one of these to actually pull the trigger. I'd love to have the telephoto for my son's graduation this year, but can't see doing it just for that when I can just rent one.

I think the reason we all have issues with this is that there is no one perfect lens. And what might be best for us at one point in time, may not continue to be perfect for us at another point in time.

That, and sometimes you just need a new toy.

Promise to give us all a review?
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:13 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by mom2rtk View Post
I'm really anxious to hear what you think of your new lenses.

I'm in a similar spot, so I read your thread with great interest. I haven't had a new lens in a couple years and am itching for a new toy. I have several directions I might go, but no single direction that's just YELLING at me.

I want a 2.8 IS telephoto lens. I'm prepared for the cost, but not for the heft. So I wait.

I have considered something like the 24-105 just to have a little more reach on my camera more often, but don't want to give up the wide end. I love my 17-55 f/2.8 a lot, but a little extra reach in my walkaround is tempting.

I'm considering ditching my Canon 10-22 to go back to the Tokina 11-16 just so I have the 2.8 again. I really missed that indoors at Disney this last trip (especially at Be Our Guest!).

Or maybe I'll just ditch the T2i and upgrade to the T4i.

But I don't have the drive for any one particular one of these to actually pull the trigger. I'd love to have the telephoto for my son's graduation this year, but can't see doing it just for that when I can just rent one.

I think the reason we all have issues with this is that there is no one perfect lens. And what might be best for us at one point in time, may not continue to be perfect for us at another point in time.

That, and sometimes you just need a new toy.

Promise to give us all a review?
Ha! yep. I hear you.

Wide will be my next foray. I find I don't need it as much, except for vacations.

It's good there is a such a robust second hand market! It makes decisions less...final. You can in and out of some really good gear for no cost or negligible cost.

Anyway, will absolutely share a review when I get the new stuff and play around with it.
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:47 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by MikeandReneePlus5 View Post
Ha! yep. I hear you.

Wide will be my next foray. I find I don't need it as much, except for vacations.

It's good there is a such a robust second hand market! It makes decisions less...final. You can in and out of some really good gear for no cost or negligible cost.

Anyway, will absolutely share a review when I get the new stuff and play around with it.
You can get some especially good deals if you look at discontinued lenses. One that comes to mind is the Canon 17-35 f/2.8 L which goes for about half the price of the 16-35 f/2.8 L.
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Old 01-31-2013, 09:03 PM   #22
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I found this thread wildly interesting too. I have the holy trinity of lenses 18-55IS, 55-250IS, and the nifty fifty 50mm 1.8. I know I know beginners lenses and all relatively cheap. I will get lens envy every once in awhile but I hold off on that $$$ temptation and just rent a lens to see how it feels. I keep coming back to the 10-22 to rent while on vacation and its really a fun lens but one that I don't feel like I would use too much at home.

I then was awarded, scratch that, gifted a Canon 60d and the kit lens 18-135IS. I think the lens is soft at both ends of the focal range and really wished I had just had the body and stepped up on a better lens. The one good thing is that I still have my old camera and I hope the kids will start playing with me and they can use the old kit lens on it.

I know your on the way to get your new lenses but the 55-250 is such a wonderful telephoto lens for the money. I get some great shots with it.

As far as for me I just don't know which way to go. I think I need to keep renting for awhile as money is tight with my oldest heading to College and my taste for vacations a definite road block into any new gear. A 300mm sounds good right now. Or maybe an "L" lens? Oh the humanity.
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:52 AM   #23
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I then was awarded, scratch that, gifted a Canon 60d and the kit lens 18-135IS. I think the lens is soft at both ends of the focal range and really wished I had just had the body and stepped up on a better lens.

This is how I feel about this lens as well. I'm not saying you can't get great shots from it. It's not a horrible lens like the Canon 75-300. But a lot of people see it as an "upgrade" from the 18-55 kit and I just don't think it is image quality wise.
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Old 02-01-2013, 09:23 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by KCmike View Post
I found this thread wildly interesting too. I have the holy trinity of lenses 18-55IS, 55-250IS, and the nifty fifty 50mm 1.8. I know I know beginners lenses and all relatively cheap. I will get lens envy every once in awhile but I hold off on that $$$ temptation and just rent a lens to see how it feels. I keep coming back to the 10-22 to rent while on vacation and its really a fun lens but one that I don't feel like I would use too much at home.

I then was awarded, scratch that, gifted a Canon 60d and the kit lens 18-135IS. I think the lens is soft at both ends of the focal range and really wished I had just had the body and stepped up on a better lens. The one good thing is that I still have my old camera and I hope the kids will start playing with me and they can use the old kit lens on it.

I know your on the way to get your new lenses but the 55-250 is such a wonderful telephoto lens for the money. I get some great shots with it.

As far as for me I just don't know which way to go. I think I need to keep renting for awhile as money is tight with my oldest heading to College and my taste for vacations a definite road block into any new gear. A 300mm sounds good right now. Or maybe an "L" lens? Oh the humanity.
Oh the humanity indeed!

the 55-250mm is $260 or so new...vs the $560 for the 70-200mm f/4. that $300 diff I'm ok with to get the USM, build quality, and of course the sharpess and contrast improvements.

then again, there's no IS on 70-200mm at that price. Now here is an interesting question: how the heck can Canon offer a 55-250mm lens for $260 with IS and yet if you want to move from non-IS 70-200mL to the IS version you must pay $540 more (the 70-200mm f/4 w/IS is $1100) ????

that bothers me.

Also, there was a thread started by I think BirdsofPrey in which he upgraded to the 24-105L (from the 18-135mm I think) and was not, I believe, as impressed as thought he would be. I'm going to dig that up and see if he has an update...

I think I even posted in that thread that I was happy with my 18-135 compared to the 17-55 2.8 I sold. Look at me now! lol

finally, dunno if you've seen THESE tests. I found them helpful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by photo_chick View Post
This is how I feel about this lens as well. I'm not saying you can't get great shots from it. It's not a horrible lens like the Canon 75-300. But a lot of people see it as an "upgrade" from the 18-55 kit and I just don't think it is image quality wise.
I concur. I went though lost of my old photos and my 18-55 kit did as good if not better than my 18-135. for me, it was worth the upgrade for the reach. the 55-250 would be another option there.
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:59 AM   #25
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Thanks for the "testing" link. Interesting.
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:57 PM   #26
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the 55-250mm is $260 or so new...vs the $560 for the 70-200mm f/4. that $300 diff I'm ok with to get the USM, build quality, and of course the sharpess and contrast improvements.
Another difference is the ring motor USM that's in the 70-300 allows for full time manual focus. This is a feature I personally will pay more for (now that I can afford more) since I've killed an AF motor because I'm bad about forgetting to switch that m-af button.

Just a note here for those that don't know... not all USM motors are equal. There are ring and mirco-motor. Only the ring type have full time manual focus which are usually found in Canon's mid grade and up lenses.
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Old 07-01-2013, 10:46 AM   #27
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I'm really anxious to hear what you think of your new lenses.

[snip]

Promise to give us all a review?
So it's been a long time but I figured I'd give an update -

Caveats: I'm an amateur. nuff said.

I swapped out my Canon 18-135 for the 24-105L f/4and also added a 70-200L f/4IS.

I absolutely love both lenses.

First off if you are considering a 70-200mm imo you MUST get the IS. I am getting vey sharp photos at 180mm+ and shutter speeds at 1/80, 1/100 etc and that just isn't possible off tripod without IS. I tried to save a few bucks by getting the non-IS and I promptly returned it and got the IS. Don't waste time, just get the IS.

That 70-200mm is amazing but that's no secret I guess. All 4 of the 70-200mms from Canon are super highly regarded and so that's that. If you need/like this focal length just do it and you'll be thrilled.

Both lenses are sharper than any other non-L zoom Canon makes...even the 17-55 2.8 IMO (non-L primes may very well compete though). You can see this, objectively, on the test site linked above. Whether or not you will see this in your own photos is subjective of course but I have for sure. to me, the 24-105 is a much better lens than the 18-135 in both sharpness and color.

when I was thinking about all this I tended to downplay "build quality". I just figured I wouldn't care all that much. Well I can say now that these lenses make other lenses feel like plastic toys. They are solid and substantial, they look nice (red ring, LOL) and they focus silently and quickly with nary a zzzzt or whir to be heard. Very satisfying. The 70-200mm focuses internally and doesn't change length so even nicer.

I will say if you are in the 18-23mm range a lot, you will miss it, but that's obvious.

As for being at f/4 max...well first off it's nice to have on the zoom end for sure. I personally have really started to use moderate ISO/bounce flash indoors with nice results so I haven't missed the f speed (work in progress though, sometimes my lighting is uneven but to me it's much better than higher ISO no flash or, *gasp*, direct flash). I'm starting to get addicted to photos with that flash twinkle where a casual viewer does not even know a flash was used.

I also enjoy the dof...when I was trying to avoid flash I was using my nifty fifty or my since sold 17-55 2.8 and opening it all the way up and it was hard to get everyone around a table in sharp focus. Plus even wide I was at 1/60 or 1/30 and again it's harder to be sharp. Stop down, crank up to ISO 400/800, go 1/100 or higher, bounce a flash and I'm in happy mode indoors.

So yeah, I'm thrilled.

Is it worth the $$$ to buy these lenses? Well that's a super duper subjective question. It was to me.
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Old 07-01-2013, 12:33 PM   #28
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Is it worth the $$$ to buy these lenses? Well that's a super duper subjective question. It was to me.
I am happy to hear the end result of this. I agree with Photo_Chick and others who said that better glass is worth it, its just justifying the expense. I purchased the 70-200L IS f/4 also and its amazing the quality of the L glass. The colors just pop!

I have also toyed with getting the 24-105L but just cant pull the trigger. On 1 hand it will make the jump to FF easier having 2 FF lenses. On the other hand for me 24 is just not wide enough on that end and i would be switching to my 10-20 more and more and its just not as sharp corner to corner as my Sigma 17-50 2.8 OS.

I am pretty happy with my current lineup and if the 70D is all that canon rumors say it is i will probably say with a crop sensor for the long term.
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Old 07-01-2013, 07:36 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by MikeandReneePlus5 View Post
So it's been a long time but I figured I'd give an update -

Caveats: I'm an amateur. nuff said.

I swapped out my Canon 18-135 for the 24-105L f/4and also added a 70-200L f/4IS.

I absolutely love both lenses.

First off if you are considering a 70-200mm imo you MUST get the IS. I am getting vey sharp photos at 180mm+ and shutter speeds at 1/80, 1/100 etc and that just isn't possible off tripod without IS. I tried to save a few bucks by getting the non-IS and I promptly returned it and got the IS. Don't waste time, just get the IS.

That 70-200mm is amazing but that's no secret I guess. All 4 of the 70-200mms from Canon are super highly regarded and so that's that. If you need/like this focal length just do it and you'll be thrilled.

Both lenses are sharper than any other non-L zoom Canon makes...even the 17-55 2.8 IMO (non-L primes may very well compete though). You can see this, objectively, on the test site linked above. Whether or not you will see this in your own photos is subjective of course but I have for sure. to me, the 24-105 is a much better lens than the 18-135 in both sharpness and color.

when I was thinking about all this I tended to downplay "build quality". I just figured I wouldn't care all that much. Well I can say now that these lenses make other lenses feel like plastic toys. They are solid and substantial, they look nice (red ring, LOL) and they focus silently and quickly with nary a zzzzt or whir to be heard. Very satisfying. The 70-200mm focuses internally and doesn't change length so even nicer.

I will say if you are in the 18-23mm range a lot, you will miss it, but that's obvious.

As for being at f/4 max...well first off it's nice to have on the zoom end for sure. I personally have really started to use moderate ISO/bounce flash indoors with nice results so I haven't missed the f speed (work in progress though, sometimes my lighting is uneven but to me it's much better than higher ISO no flash or, *gasp*, direct flash). I'm starting to get addicted to photos with that flash twinkle where a casual viewer does not even know a flash was used.

I also enjoy the dof...when I was trying to avoid flash I was using my nifty fifty or my since sold 17-55 2.8 and opening it all the way up and it was hard to get everyone around a table in sharp focus. Plus even wide I was at 1/60 or 1/30 and again it's harder to be sharp. Stop down, crank up to ISO 400/800, go 1/100 or higher, bounce a flash and I'm in happy mode indoors.

So yeah, I'm thrilled.

Is it worth the $$$ to buy these lenses? Well that's a super duper subjective question. It was to me.

I was really happy to see you post your feedback on your new lenses. I'm so glad you have a kit you're happy with.

After reading that, I'm probably more tempted than ever before to reconsider my lineup. For me though it comes down to a couple issues:

1) wide end of the focal length. I really do shoot a lot between 17 and 24, especially at Disney. But I've been mighty tempted to give up those 7mm's on the wide end to get a little more zoom.

and

2) the wider aperture. I love having the 2.8. I'm downright spoiled by it. So much that I just sold my Canon 10-22 to buy back the Tokina 11-16 that I sold to GET the Canon......... just because I wanted the 2.8 back. Maybe others can get by with losing a little in that regard. For me though, I just miss it too much. I think it's because I have incredibly unsteady hands. I'm thinking I just need to accomplish a little faster shutter speed than most.

I do totally agree with needing to have IS if I get a 700-200. It's what has been holding me back. To get that one with IS in a 2.8 creates a beast I just don't want to carry. I rented the version 2 of that Canon lens for my son's High School graduation last month. And while I LOVED what it can do, I just don't think I'd want to carry it along in most situations. Soooooo...... you do have me wondering if I might want to reconsider maybe the f/4 version. If I'm not mistaken it's a decent amount lighter than it's 2.8 sibling.

My current zoom is the Sigma 50-150 without IS. It was not available with IS when I bought it. And it really is a problem for me. Sharp as can be when I can get the shutter speed up fast enough. They have now come out with a version with IS, but it's almost as heavy as the Canon 70-200 2.8 I rented.

You give me a lot to think about. Remind me where you bought your lenses?
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Old 07-02-2013, 08:36 PM   #30
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I bought both used from Canon POTN marketplace. Good luck with your decisions!

I'm gonna add the 10-22 or 11-16 at some point. I hear you on the 2.8 indoors at say BOG but bouncing a flash works wonders...I'm sure you've seen Neil Van Something's website and/or the Strobist.
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