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Old 01-18-2013, 10:12 AM   #31
starjazz
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Yes, but you'd be hard pressed to find many people who would equate the 2 transgressions.

And you'd be hard pressed to find many high profile folks to feature in that film at all if that's the standard you're using. The ones who make it big are usually the ones who take risks in life.

Bah - I equate the two. Both were men with great skill and talent who threw it away for pride, lust, greed...whatever.

It would be FAR more risky to try and win a Tour the right way. Lance didn't take a risk, he took the easy road.

And as for Tiger, he also succumbed. Far easier to just let yourself become consumed, then to be strong and a solid role model.

There are many upstanding, responsible, decent and successful people that could easily replace these two and far better represent America.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:16 AM   #32
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I agree with many - - - pull him from any pavilion, ride, or mention !!!
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:27 AM   #33
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Given Lance Armstrong's admission (to oprah) to doping and using banned substances during his cycling competitions, including his Tour de France wins ... do you think Disney will edit the film montage at the end of Epcot's American Adventure to remove him?
I doubt they will go to additional expense to remove him, but if there is an existing flim that doesn't include him, they may revert to that.

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Well... They still have Captain EO starring Michael Jackson even though he admitted to sharing a bed with children.

I am far from a Michael Jackson fan, but I've shared a bed with children, it doesn't make me a paedophile. He was cleared of all charges in a court of law and he raised millions for children's charities. Was he the most fine upstanding person, probably not, but he was also a victim of childhood abuse that was messed up because of it.

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yeah, because michael jackson settled out of all of his molestation charges for millions. he also died of a drug overdose and held a baby over a balcony.

lance did drugs and has was never been found guilty in a court just like michael. tiger woods admitted to cheating but never had any court issues revolving around it.

if you were ranking them on who has the worst character, i think putting a person accused multiple times of paedophilia in a theme park aimed at children may come out on the top of a lot of peoples list. but you could make a case for all 3.
Jackson didn't settle his molestation charges, he settled a civil suit. Very different things. When he faced charges and was tried in criminal court, he was found innocent of all charges.

Tiger Woods is a ridiculous argument, millions of people cheat on their wife, it doesn't make them public enemy #1.

I don't know that they should remove Lance Armstrong, I don't think he is an important part of the attraction, but to be honest, what he said on Oprah is the tip of the iceberg. He got HUGE amounts of money in lawsuits where he lied under oath and it's likely he'll face charges.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:31 AM   #34
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If they removed all the well-known people who have made bad choices and mistakes from that video, they'd have to re-do the whole thing. Unfortunately our "heroes" aren't all perfect. And I'm not going to argue what makes you someone who shouldn't be a hero. That's too much of an individual decision and for too many different reasons. Just sayin' that he's not the first to fall off the pedestal. I was never interested in bike racing and never really paid any attention to him. Sorry.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:32 AM   #35
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Tiger cheated on his wife. While this is morally wrong, it was (even although the public was morbidly curious) a persoanl issue in his marriage. The image of Tiger winning a tournament in the movie is not affected by his cheating on his wife. I would have no issue if they choose to take him out but I don't think it is comparable to what Armstrong did.

Lance cheated to win his sport at a time when everyone else was also doping so this part is somwhat understandable. The image in the movie of Lance (which is I think the last image before the eagle so VERY noticeable) is him winning the Tour wearing the yellow jersey. He has been stripped of that title so that moment itself is part of the fraud. Additionally, Lance has destroyed people's lives, sued them, threatened them, etc. to cover up his fraud. Livestrong, although it does not give funds to research which I think is a mistaken perception, does raise cancer awareness and help people cope with and manage the disease and this is clearly admirable. Lance, the man however, has been now proven to be a cheater in his sport AND a vindictive bully in his personal life. This should not be an American ideal to be promoted in the film. I hope and think they remove him.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:33 AM   #36
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It took them 8 years to update the film for 9/11 so I don't think they will be in a rush.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:45 AM   #37
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Its amazing how many people give a guy a pass when he trounces around the country bagging every hooker from Augusta to Torrey.

He didn't ruin anyone's lives? It was just personal between him and his wife? Ask his kids about that. Ask his colleagues and employees. Ask the women he treated like belongings along the way (not that they're innocent).

This society is messed up if Tiger's transgressions are any more forgiveable than Lance's. Yeesh. There are so many better choices - Drew Brees, Mike Krzyzewski, Peyton Manning, Cal Ripken, Jr., Tim Duncan, John Wooden, just to name a few.

I've not seen the movies, so I'm probably WAY off topic....sorry. But, I wouldn't hold either of these two up as role models for my kids. Not even close.
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:06 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by starjazz View Post
Its amazing how many people give a guy a pass when he trounces around the country bagging every hooker from Augusta to Torrey.

He didn't ruin anyone's lives? It was just personal between him and his wife? Ask his kids about that. Ask his colleagues and employees. Ask the women he treated like belongings along the way (not that they're innocent).

This society is messed up if Tiger's transgressions are any more forgiveable than Lance's. Yeesh. There are so many better choices - Drew Brees, Mike Krzyzewski, Peyton Manning, Cal Ripken, Jr., Tim Duncan, John Wooden, just to name a few.

I've not seen the movies, so I'm probably WAY off topic....sorry. But, I wouldn't hold either of these two up as role models for my kids. Not even close.
Then we'll have to agree to disagree.

For me, there is a big difference between someone who got to the top of his sport the right way, compared to someone who could only get there by cheating.

ETA: Also, Tiger is a very good example of what having a supporting family (his mom and dad), and what personal perseverance and dedication can get you. If you want to be the best, here's how. Let's see how that translates for Lance?
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:12 AM   #39
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Yes. We will indeed have to agree to disagree.

To me, a much better role model is a guy who warms the bench his entire career, and does it with moral fortitude.
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:23 AM   #40
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to me, a much better role model is a guy who warms the bench his entire career, and does it with moral fortitude.
Rudy! Rudy! Rudy!
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:26 AM   #41
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Rudy! Rudy! Rudy!
Ha! Interestingly enough, Rudy ended up working as a car salesman for a while for my uncle in Mishawaka, IN. Can a car salesman have good moral fortitude?
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Old 01-18-2013, 02:03 PM   #42
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It would cost them money to change it, so unless there's a massive negative publicity campaign against the attraction, I doubt it'll be changed.
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Old 01-18-2013, 02:22 PM   #43
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ETA: Also, Tiger is a very good example of what having a supporting family (his mom and dad), and what personal perseverance and dedication can get you. If you want to be the best, here's how. Let's see how that translates for Lance?
Lance: If you want to be the best use ILLEGAL, PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS.
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Old 01-18-2013, 06:03 PM   #44
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Well, my first thought was no, that they wouldn't re-do the montage until they are ready for a refurb again.

But then I got to thinking that if the movie was in digital form as opposed to the old film format, it might not be so difficult to make changes to the montage. They may have a bunch of photos stored in a database that the computer mixed in a montage format. If they just have to delete a photo (or replace it with another one) it might not be as big a deal as it was to re-do the old film format montage.

To be honest, I didn't know who he was in the montage until all this came up - but I'm not a big follower of sports anyway.
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Old 01-18-2013, 06:17 PM   #45
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Yes. We will indeed have to agree to disagree.

To me, a much better role model is a guy who warms the bench his entire career, and does it with moral fortitude.
I agree with you. They both cheated. They just cheated different folks.
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