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Old 01-17-2013, 06:32 PM   #16
doconeill


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I'll repost here what I said on the blog post:

I’m wondering if the infrastructure and features they are putting in place can’t offer a solution very similar to what that did at RSR.

Give the person a “GAC MagicBand”. They can scan that MagicBand at whatever replaces the FP kiosks. When that MagicBand is used, it tells them when to return, based on the current wait time. Then they have a very small window in which to return. Essentially giving them a virtual place in line. The catch? They CANNOT also use it at another attraction, either to enter a FP+ line or get another “virtual placeholder”. It locks them out until they “redeem” it at the FP+ line at the first attraction, or miss their window.

The original Fastpass was based on statistics as well…I’m not sure how much FP+ really changes that, unless they are pushing the envelope with how many “slots” they will allow at the attraction. But I can’t see them doing that without making existing problems worse and causing the standby line to completely stagnate.

As for the GAC - I got to experience this first hand in 2010, when the in-laws joined us. My DFiL has Parkinson's. He as trouble walking at times, and can never walk fast. So we rented an ECV for the duration, and on the first day we stopped at GR to get a GAC card...all it was stamped was "Guests can enter attractions through standard wheelchair entrance".

It probably only worked to our advantage a couple of times (he wasn't going to do many of the headliners anyways). I was actually shocked when we were directed to the exit at IASW (the wheelchair entrance), when I thought the point of swapping the entrance and exit around was to "mainstream" the entrance.

But at TSM, it was a very different experience. It LOOKED like it would be an advantage - we entered through the Fastpass line (we actually HAD Fastpasses, but were never asked for them - we were directed to the entrance as we approached), and then sent through the door at the merge point directly to the load area so we avoided the line going up and back and over the bridge and down to the load area. But there was a line of people at the accessible platform to be loaded...and they appeared to only load a couple vehicles once per complete ride cycle as there was a special car that had a wheelchair ramp and seat. If a wheelchair didn't need to be loaded, that car may have gone empty. So we actually waited what seemed a lot longer than if we could have just gotten in the Fastpass line, and I think it was pretty close to the advertised standby line time (this was early December, so lines weren't all that bad).
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Old 01-17-2013, 10:44 PM   #17
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The issue being talked about is at Disneyland, where things are much different than WDW.
Most WDW attractions are wheelchair accessible thru the Mainstream line. Most at Disneyland are not.
WDW also has more alternate waiting areas because they have more space to work with.

WDW has also been putting in place some things that may ultimately be helpful - like the beepers being used to 'reserve' a time for Dumbo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by doconeill View Post
I'll repost here what I said on the blog post:

I’m wondering if the infrastructure and features they are putting in place can’t offer a solution very similar to what that did at RSR.

Give the person a “GAC MagicBand”. They can scan that MagicBand at whatever replaces the FP kiosks. When that MagicBand is used, it tells them when to return, based on the current wait time. Then they have a very small window in which to return. Essentially giving them a virtual place in line. The catch? They CANNOT also use it at another attraction, either to enter a FP+ line or get another “virtual placeholder”. It locks them out until they “redeem” it at the FP+ line at the first attraction, or miss their window.

The original Fastpass was based on statistics as well…I’m not sure how much FP+ really changes that, unless they are pushing the envelope with how many “slots” they will allow at the attraction. But I can’t see them doing that without making existing problems worse and causing the standby line to completely stagnate.

As for the GAC - I got to experience this first hand in 2010, when the in-laws joined us. My DFiL has Parkinson's. He as trouble walking at times, and can never walk fast. So we rented an ECV for the duration, and on the first day we stopped at GR to get a GAC card...all it was stamped was "Guests can enter attractions through standard wheelchair entrance".

It probably only worked to our advantage a couple of times (he wasn't going to do many of the headliners anyways). I was actually shocked when we were directed to the exit at IASW (the wheelchair entrance), when I thought the point of swapping the entrance and exit around was to "mainstream" the entrance.
From what I understood from CMs, the intent WAS to make Small World a mainstream line, but the Fire Marshall would not approve it. If there were a fire on the regular boarding area, they could have walking guests exit by getting on a boat and walking straight thru the boat to exit.

If guests with wheelchairs were down there (where they used to wait to board before the renovation), they could not do that and could be trapped since they could only exit the same way they came in. (Or have to wait for the wheelchair accessible boat to come around an drive in one side and off the exit side).

The wait in that 'special line' is often longer than the 'regular line. One a recent trip, DH was in that line with DD who uses a wheelchair and can't walk.
I was doing something else and he texted me when they got into line. I arrived 25 minutes later and got into the 'regular' line, planning for DH and DD to get a snack while I finished waiting and rode. I waited in line about 20 minutes before I boarded a boat - they were loaded 3 boats ahead of me, so their wait was a little more than 25 minutes longer than mine was.

That happens fairly frequently when we split up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by doconeill View Post
But at TSM, it was a very different experience. It LOOKED like it would be an advantage - we entered through the Fastpass line (we actually HAD Fastpasses, but were never asked for them - we were directed to the entrance as we approached), and then sent through the door at the merge point directly to the load area so we avoided the line going up and back and over the bridge and down to the load area. But there was a line of people at the accessible platform to be loaded...and they appeared to only load a couple vehicles once per complete ride cycle as there was a special car that had a wheelchair ramp and seat. If a wheelchair didn't need to be loaded, that car may have gone empty. So we actually waited what seemed a lot longer than if we could have just gotten in the Fastpass line, and I think it was pretty close to the advertised standby line time (this was early December, so lines weren't all that bad).
because of the stairs in the main queue, anyone who can't handle stairs for any reason has to use that special entrance. This makes the wait there sometimes very long. Every time we have gone there and had some of our party use the 'regular line' and some go with DD in her wheelchair, the people in the regular line finished first.

In order to load at the accessible boarding area, they need to open a gate (like a train track switch) that switches a ride car off the regular track and into that boarding area. There is usually only one wheelchair accessible, convertible ride car running and that one is generally the only one pulled into that boarding area (according to CMs I have talked to who work that attraction). So, one ride car that seats 6 loads there for each ride cycle. (The regular ride car 'pod' has 2cars and seats 8. The wheelchair accessible one seats only 6 because of the built in ramp.
When the line in the accessible area gets really backed up, they so etimes allow guests with ECVs or wheelchairs to get into the Fastpass line or give them a handwritten Fastpass to come back later. This is to try to equalize the wait somewhat since they would have an extra wait in the accessible area.

They also do the same thing sometimes at attractions when the wait in the standby line is relatively short. The regular lines are often winding with lots of turnes. An ECV or wheelchair in that line actually slows things down for the other guests.
That happens quite often to us at Buzz Lightyear. We go to the regular line and are directed to go into the Fastpass line instead. Several times, we have had someone else with a wheelchair or ECV ahead of us, who was saying how 'nice it was to bypass the line.'
Only, they did not look at the standby line posted wait - we did and knew it was less than 10 minutes, so it would really not matter that much which line we got into, our wait would be pretty much the same. But, it would matter to the guests in the regular line who would be slowed down as we negotiated each corner.

Those kinds of things (plus shows, where guests with ECVs, wheelchairs or GACs might wait in a different part of the line) are responsible for a lot of cases where guests think they had an advantage with a GAC.
Observers see the people disappear from the line and assume they are getting right one. The people with wheelchairs, ECVs or GACs who are not aware of what is happening in the regular line also assume they got on faster.
I've seem lots of posts about 'Front of the Line' access for shows where people do not realize they are going to get into the same show as the people in the regular line.
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:46 AM   #18
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Thank you Sue for the awesome post. It should be required reading not just for everyone on the boards, but for everyone who goes to WDW.
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Old 01-18-2013, 03:26 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doconeill View Post
Give the person a “GAC MagicBand”. They can scan that MagicBand at whatever replaces the FP kiosks. When that MagicBand is used, it tells them when to return, based on the current wait time. Then they have a very small window in which to return. Essentially giving them a virtual place in line. The catch? They CANNOT also use it at another attraction, either to enter a FP+ line or get another “virtual placeholder”. It locks them out until they “redeem” it at the FP+ line at the first attraction, or miss their window.
It's sad, in my opinion, that this would be the only fair way I can think of to implement it. If you give folks a specific time to come back to a ride without 'locking them out', the system will unfortunately be abused more. Basically they would just have access to unlimited FP's any time they want just by approaching a ride CM.
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:39 AM   #20
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It's sad, in my opinion, that this would be the only fair way I can think of to implement it. If you give folks a specific time to come back to a ride without 'locking them out', the system will unfortunately be abused more. Basically they would just have access to unlimited FP's any time they want just by approaching a ride CM.
If they have to change it, perhaps they can make it more like Universal's version of the GAC. At Universal, the person's information is added to the computer system. The person is given a card with a barcode. The card has rows to write the name of the attraction, arrival time, current wait time, return time, and when each is validated. It has to be validated before getting another return time for another attraction. So there can only be one active return time at a time. Each time you are sent in queue, the barcode is scanned.

On the back, it has very clear instructions for the cardholder.
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:22 PM   #21
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If they have to change it, perhaps they can make it more like Universal's version of the GAC. At Universal, the person's information is added to the computer system. The person is given a card with a barcode. The card has rows to write the name of the attraction, arrival time, current wait time, return time, and when each is validated. It has to be validated before getting another return time for another attraction. So there can only be one active return time at a time. Each time you are sent in queue, the barcode is scanned.

On the back, it has very clear instructions for the cardholder.
Basically the same thing is used for Knotts - I understand concept, and I do not mind waiting in an alternate location. What got me is that I was expected to ride each ride only once in a day. I do not mind waiting more than once, but I want to be able to wait for te ride as many times as I please. For example at RSR, with my GAC I get a return pass equal to the wait time, which means I Can wait in an area that is safe and appropriate for my disability. But as soon as my Return Pass time comes up, I ride the ride, and then often get another return pass.

I have waited the same amount of time as I would have in the general line (which is not an option for me for several reasons), but get to ride twice. I dont mind getting return times, but I do expect to not be locked out after riding the ride only once.
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:29 PM   #22
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Basically the same thing is used for Knotts - I understand concept, and I do not mind waiting in an alternate location. What got me is that I was expected to ride each ride only once in a day. I do not mind waiting more than once, but I want to be able to wait for te ride as many times as I please. For example at RSR, with my GAC I get a return pass equal to the wait time, which means I Can wait in an area that is safe and appropriate for my disability. But as soon as my Return Pass time comes up, I ride the ride, and then often get another return pass.

I have waited the same amount of time as I would have in the general line (which is not an option for me for several reasons), but get to ride twice. I dont mind getting return times, but I do expect to not be locked out after riding the ride only once.
I'm not familiar with CA, I'm a FL girl. I don't understand being locked out after riding once?

At Universal, my son is limited to a few attractions that he can ride. He can sit in stationary seating for Minion Mayhem and Shrek. The last time we were there he rode Minion Mayhem twice. There was less than a 30 minute queue at Minion Mayhem so they sent him into a queue for stationary seating right away rather than mark a return time. (Whether they give a return time or not, as soon as we get sent to a queue someone scans his card.) Right after he rode, he wanted to go again. This time there was a 45 minute wait, so they marked it on the card. So 45 minutes later, we returned and he rode. (If he were to go to a different attraction before that 45 minute time, then he would have forfeited his chance to ride and he would have had to start the process all over again at Minion Mayhem.)
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Old 01-20-2013, 08:22 AM   #23
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Regardless of the merrits of the article the title was an exceptionally poor choice, I hope the author thinks long and hard before making any future posts
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Old 01-21-2013, 01:34 PM   #24
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We are heading to Disneyland in December and I was planning on obtaining a GAC. I am saddened to hear how the locals are ruining and abusing the GAC program there. I'm all for the CMs asking for some form of documentation/note from a doctor to obtain a GAC. Due to ADA, the letter can't specifically tell the CM your ailment, but can tell what special accommodations you will need to enjoy your time at Walt Disney World resort or Disneyland resort.
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Old 01-21-2013, 02:41 PM   #25
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We are heading to Disneyland in December and I was planning on obtaining a GAC. I am saddened to hear how the locals are ruining and abusing the GAC program there. I'm all for the CMs asking for some form of documentation/note from a doctor to obtain a GAC. Due to ADA, the letter can't specifically tell the CM your ailment, but can tell what special accommodations you will need to enjoy your time at Walt Disney World resort or Disneyland resort.
The problem is that no one can ask for proof of a disability in order to obtain equal access. And that is what a GAC is intended to provide - equal access. Also doctors who have not gone to Disney have no idea about what accommodations are available and what my needs might be.


I also just do not want a random person with no medical training to be reading my personal medical information.

I actually do not think GAC abuse is as rampant as the blog suggests and it has never impacted my ability to go to the parks and have a great time.
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:49 PM   #26
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We were at DL last summer. You do not receive a GAC if you have a wheelchair or scooter. It is implied you need assistance. You simply enter an alternate entrance if necessary. Sometimes we waited less time, sometimes more, usually about the same. The only time it really benefited us to use the wheelchair entrance was at Nemo. Even then, we still waited 45 minutes (versus 75).

However, if you read the DL boards, there are horrible stories of dissers witnessing GAC abuse. There are scooters everywhere. Some families rent a scooter and take turns riding/driving it. And, what if you have a party of 20? I think the GAC magicband is a great idea. I also think there should be some rule that the GAC/wheelchair person must actually ride the attraction.
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:32 PM   #27
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So very sad, some people will take advantage of any situation to promote their own agenda.
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:35 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SA mom View Post
We were at DL last summer. You do not receive a GAC if you have a wheelchair or scooter. It is implied you need assistance. You simply enter an alternate entrance if necessary. Sometimes we waited less time, sometimes more, usually about the same. The only time it really benefited us to use the wheelchair entrance was at Nemo. Even then, we still waited 45 minutes (versus 75).

However, if you read the DL boards, there are horrible stories of dissers witnessing GAC abuse. There are scooters everywhere. Some families rent a scooter and take turns riding/driving it. And, what if you have a party of 20? I think the GAC magicband is a great idea. I also think there should be some rule that the GAC/wheelchair person must actually ride the attraction.
Guest with wheelchairs, ECV or other mobility devices at WDW don't need a GAC either.
The biggest difference between WDW and DL is that WDW has mostly accessible lines, so in most cases the 'handicapped line' is the regular line.

The rule is that the GAC is to provide assistance to the person with a disability, so they can experience the attraction. Every time we have used a GAC, we were asked which of our party it was issued to and whether she was riding. I have seen people turned away who were trying to use it without the person it was issued to.
In general, the GAC issued for a party of up to 6, including the person with a disability.

I can see the Magicbands being useful because they would connect the GAC to the person it was issued to better.
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:47 PM   #29
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However, if you read the DL boards, there are horrible stories of dissers witnessing GAC abuse. There are scooters everywhere. Some families rent a scooter and take turns riding/driving it. And, what if you have a party of 20? I think the GAC magicband is a great idea. I also think there should be some rule that the GAC/wheelchair person must actually ride the attraction.
It always amazes me that people are so eager to tell their "horror" stories, but rarely if ever do you read a post from someone who can't wait to tell the story of the person with a disability that they saw having a wonderful time because of the access Disney allows them.

I do not deny there is abuse, I have no doubt there is SOME, but how anyone can tell with certainty who the abusers are is beyond me. The observe someone is a small frame of time and assume they know the whole story. I think it's sad. Move on and MYOB.
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Old 01-24-2013, 05:51 AM   #30
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It always amazes me that people are so eager to tell their "horror" stories, but rarely if ever do you read a post from someone who can't wait to tell the story of the person with a disability that they saw having a wonderful time because of the access Disney allows them.

I do not deny there is abuse, I have no doubt there is SOME, but how anyone can tell with certainty who the abusers are is beyond me. The observe someone is a small frame of time and assume they know the whole story. I think it's sad. Move on and MYOB.
This has been my point from the very beginning. We truly do not know who the abuses are out there and cast members nor park guests can 100% identify them. Anyone thinking they could is foolish in their thinking.

As far as a family renting a scooter or wheelchair and "sharing" it, how does one know that the person it is intended for can walk short distances from time to time? This could very well be the case. There are hundreds or reasons why someone would require assistance in the theme parks. Are there people who abuse it? I'm sure there are, but personally I will never take a cast member's or random guest's observations as gold until I've seen documented proof. And, in all reality, is this something that truly affects our own vacations? If it does, part of me questions one's demeanor and sense of fun when in the parks.
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