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Old 01-16-2013, 07:54 AM   #46
doconeill


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Originally Posted by *NikkiBell* View Post
Yes, but if the data is to be transmitted to that computer it needs power. There must be some type of battery in it for it to work.
Short-range RFID does not need a power source. When you wave or touch it to a receiver, there is a magnetic field surrounding the receiver, which induces a current in the very small circuitry, enough to make it transmit a fixed code for a very short distance (inches generally at most).

What the battery appears to be for is where Disney mentioned that if you are close enough to some special sensors, it will pick up your band's transmission and be able to do things - whether this is some sort of custom experience trigger mechanism, or them sending you a "Hey, you're near Pecos Bill's - how about a rootin'-tootin' burger? $1 off" message, we don't know yet. But that needs to work over a longer distance, hence the battery for a stronger transmitter. It might even send a completely different code for security (supposition on my part).

There does not appear to be an on-off switch to turn that transmitter off, which is why I think it has limited life. And whether they will let you use just the RFID part without the transmitter part when the battery dies, I don't know.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:03 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *NikkiBell* View Post
Yes, but if the data is to be transmitted to that computer it needs power. There must be some type of battery in it for it to work.
The RFID bands currently being used are the non battery type, you have to pretty much touch the antenna with the band. If you Google RFID you can get a better understanding of how RFID works. Using the shorter range version reduces the chance of skimmers reading your code.

Security tags protecting merchandise and the small toll tag in your car don't have batteries. Each work several feet from the antenna, it's the antenna that is powered.

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Old 01-16-2013, 08:12 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by disneynutz View Post
The RFID bands currently being used are the non battery type, you have to pretty much touch the antenna with the band. If you Google RFID you can get a better understanding of how RFID works. Using the shorter range version reduces the chance of skimmers reading your code.

Security tags protecting merchandise and the small toll tag in your car don't have batteries. Each work several feet from the antenna, it's the antenna that is powered.

Bill
Actually, EZ-Pass transponders and similar are powered by a battery...it's larger than what would go in the bands so it can last longer...I think they rate them for at least 3 years. They are not replaceable either...but now that I think of it in those terms, I suppose it's possible it could last a year, at least covering the lifespan of an AP.

Security tags for merchandise are a bit different, as the antennas aren't usually receiving codes, but just looking for a tag moving within their field. There is some fancy science that goes in to how they "deactivate" tags.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:49 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by doconeill View Post
Actually, EZ-Pass transponders and similar are powered by a battery...it's larger than what would go in the bands so it can last longer...I think they rate them for at least 3 years. They are not replaceable either...but now that I think of it in those terms, I suppose it's possible it could last a year, at least covering the lifespan of an AP.

Security tags for merchandise are a bit different, as the antennas aren't usually receiving codes, but just looking for a tag moving within their field. There is some fancy science that goes in to how they "deactivate" tags.
There are toll tags that do not have batteries. The newer tags are passive, we use them here in Texas and I have had the same flat tag stuck to my windshield for 6 years. The older transponders like the one that we use for WDW in our rental car is a box and it does have a replaceable coin type battery. The Sun Pass people keep asking me to exchange it for a passive tag but I like the beep that it gives off telling me that it's working.

Getting back to Disney's system, I am incorrect, the current system does use a battery. The band that I read about was used for door lock testing only and did not have a battery.

The current system actually has 3 separate systems in one. A battery powered transmitter using the same radio frequency as WiFi and cordless telephones, a low frequency passive and a high frequency passive. Apparently Disney is using the 3 different systems for different things. Much more complicated than the original info that I received a couple of years ago.

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Old 01-16-2013, 10:13 AM   #50
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There are toll tags that do not have batteries. The newer tags are passive, we use them here in Texas and I have had the same flat tag stuck to my windshield for 6 years. The older transponders like the one that we use for WDW in our rental car is a box and it does have a replaceable coin type battery. The Sun Pass people keep asking me to exchange it for a passive tag but I like the beep that it gives off telling me that it's working.
Interesting...I hadn't heard of these tags. I know SunPass apparently can do a "charge by plate" system, where they get an image of the license plate and can charge based on that - I believe some of the rental car places utilize that.

For the passive tags to work at a bigger distance, it must be a hefty magnetic field you pass through Probably not what you'd want radiating all over the parks with people standing in them all the time...
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Old 01-16-2013, 03:32 PM   #51
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The passive tags have been the norm in most states for years. Florida has had them since around 08, Oklahoma since 10, and I believe Texas before both of those. I thought the northeast region EZ Pass had started offering them as well.

Not only do they not need a battery because the reader antenna is powered, but the windshield is used as some sort of conductor/amplifier. That's why they don't work on motorcycles.
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Old 01-16-2013, 03:44 PM   #52
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The passive tags have been the norm in most states for years. Florida has had them since around 08, Oklahoma since 10, and I believe Texas before both of those. I thought the northeast region EZ Pass had started offering them as well.
Nope...none of the EZPass states seem to be offering them, nor do they seem to be equipped to read them. Supposedly North Carolina has them, but then they just joined EZPass as well.
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Old 01-16-2013, 03:51 PM   #53
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That's why they don't work on motorcycles.
Could it be the angle of the tag when affixed to a motorcycle windshield?

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Old 01-16-2013, 04:33 PM   #54
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I am kinda worried that NextGen is going to completely change my disney world experience. I fear that the days of riding e-tickets several times a trip is gone!

I also dont see how most guests will be happy when there FP+ run out for the day and they have to wait in standby!
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:16 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doconeill View Post
Short-range RFID does not need a power source. When you wave or touch it to a receiver, there is a magnetic field surrounding the receiver, which induces a current in the very small circuitry, enough to make it transmit a fixed code for a very short distance (inches generally at most).

What the battery appears to be for is where Disney mentioned that if you are close enough to some special sensors, it will pick up your band's transmission and be able to do things - whether this is some sort of custom experience trigger mechanism, or them sending you a "Hey, you're near Pecos Bill's - how about a rootin'-tootin' burger? $1 off" message, we don't know yet. But that needs to work over a longer distance, hence the battery for a stronger transmitter. It might even send a completely different code for security (supposition on my part).

There does not appear to be an on-off switch to turn that transmitter off, which is why I think it has limited life. And whether they will let you use just the RFID part without the transmitter part when the battery dies, I don't know.
If someone buys an expensive magicband bracelet, and that battery goes dead wouldn't that also affect things like Scuttle talking to the customers in queues or some of the other "magical" experiences planned with the longer distance transmission. Regardless, Disney will probably sell millions of those designer bands.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:22 PM   #56
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If someone buys an expensive magicband bracelet, and that battery goes dead wouldn't that also affect things like Scuttle talking to the customers in queues or some of the other "magical" experiences planned with the longer distance transmission. Regardless, Disney will probably sell millions of those designer bands.
Yes, but I wouldn't expect the battery to die within a couple weeks of them selling it to you They may have one of those pull-tabs to enable the battery, or something. Either that, or they really do last quite a while.

But that's why I still think they may be "disposable" at some level, and not as re-usable as some might wish.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:24 PM   #57
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They can’t possibly tie it to staying on property and piss off Annual Passholders/Florida Passholders.
Nope -- they can't -- they need people in the parks when the rest of us aren't willing to travel.

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This may be true, but they still need the people staying at the moderates and values and off property and locals too. Disney can't afford to focus just on the Deluxe guest and they know it...after all they did just a huge new Value resort. Disney might not have to be fair, but they do have to be smart. Believe me, they wouldn't be too happy if all the Deluxes were full, but all the other resorts were empty and they have to be careful about that. They don't want people who cannot afford a Deluxe but still have plenty of money to burn in the parks to say "Why bother going if I can't get on any rides?" They also don't want the buzz on "MyMagic" to be "If you can't afford $450 a night it isn't worth going." and that is just what would happen.

I agree a billion dollars is HUGE, but also that there does have to be something missing still. Something we don't know about yet. Even still, at this point, I think it's a huge risk. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
And you can't fill the parks with just people staying on resort -- there aren't enough rooms. Those people who stay off-site buy lots of park days, lots of food, and lots of stuff. But I can see them offering people the option to buy FP+ days, same as Universal does for day guests (we bought it for one day -- totally unnecessary but we didn't know at the time ) There will be lots of people who will decide their trip is complete if they can get on Soarin and Test Track and still make it to their ADR on time, so people would buy it.

I agree there is something missing here -- even with all of the information they can gather, it can't tell them what people didn't buy, what made the difference for them in choosing to stay off-site or why they chose to eat at one restaurant rather than another. Those are the answers that could be turned into cash for wdw.
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:34 PM   #58
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Disney can't seem to get the WiFi to work all that well. Makes me wonder how this is going to work (or not work)
Call me a skeptic
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:38 PM   #59
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Disney can't seem to get the WiFi to work all that well. Makes me wonder how this is going to work (or not work)
Call me a skeptic
Heck, they can't even get the website to work! ;p
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:23 AM   #60
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If they really want to spread out the people in the parks more, they could start by reducing the cost of a hopper ticket, or let you add a hop on for one day at a time.
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