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Old 01-15-2013, 04:11 PM   #16
WDWFigment
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMasterMatt View Post
There's nothing to worry about. It's oil from the shutter and it's been a part of every full frame sensor Nikon camera from the D3/D700 on up. The "consumer" models have more reports of it because they sell more and they are also in the hands of people that are more apt to post online.

The top left of the image will pick up spray and you should anticipate a wet cleaning from time to time. It's a by product of the proxmity of the edges of the sensor to the shutter. On a crop sensor, the edges are further away.

If you are purchasing a full frame DSLR, it's the price you pay for admission. A few quick clicks with the healing brush will take care of it in post.

The trick is to know when to clean and when not to get out the sensor swab or not. For just a few spots, it's usually not worth it as oil in the corners is much harder to get off than dust.

Suprisingly, the dust removal in the camera does a decent job - it just can't do anything with oil. My rule of thumb is to get the rocket blower out turn the camera upside down and see if the spot moves. If so, it's dust. If it doesn't, it's oil and needs a wet cleaning. Also, if you are just seeing it in the corner - chances are it's oil.

I wouldn't let any of this put anyone off Nikon's full frame offerings. The bodies are worth it and most certainly the lenses are.
I'd be curious to see links to reports of other full frame Nikon cameras that have had this issue. To my knowledge, only the DX Nikon D7000 has had a similar issue.

As for it being more reported because it's happening in consumer models, which are owned by more people, the leading "reporter" of this problem was LensRentals.com, with follow-ups by NikonRumors.com. Neither of those outlets are handling exclusively "consumer" gear.

Since Nikon has made a design fix to address this issue, I can't say that I agree with your ultimate "price of admission" conclusion. Clearly, Nikon recognizes this as a problem and is actively addressing it.
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Old 01-15-2013, 05:04 PM   #17
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Another link on the issue: http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012...or-dust-issues
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:12 PM   #18
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All of the full frame Nikon models have had reports of oil on the sensor. Using a search engine of choice, search for the camera model and "oil on sensor" and you will get results. The first full frame (FX) out of the box, D3, was where it first got reported in earnest. Thom Hogan even pointed out in his D3s review that it will sprayed.

I've used each of the models (D3, D3x, D3s, D700, D800e - I haven't played with a D600 yet) at one point or another and they all have had some issue with oil. The only variable is how much oil and how often. My trusty D700 just had its original shutter replaced and even with the new shutter, I get some oil on the sensor. I do think it's less than the original shutter; but, it still happens.

Here's the catch though - all cameras get oil thrown around inside. Even film. With a film camera, the issue only impacted one frame at a time. With digital, the sensor stays in place and will accumulate dust and oil over time.

Canon bodies aren't immune to this either. Do a search for any of their 5D family and oil on the sensor and you will get hits as well.

A full frame sensor is simply going to pick up more junk than a crop sensor because there is so much more footprint for debris to land on and the edges of sensor are much closer to the edges of the mirror box.

Obviously, the D600 has many reports of this problem. Is this due to a "defect", is this due to the large number of D600s sold verus other models, or is it due those with D600 are passionate enthusiasts that perhaps are posting online more than say, a D3x owner? My guess is that it's likely a bit of all the above. Nikon is stepping in and offering a "solution" to the issue; but, I think the false expectation is being set if anyone thinks that the oil problem will ever be resolved in total. A device that can move mass around at 1/8000 of a second will always be suspect to throw debris around inside the chassis. Larger sensors will always be more prone to have the debris land on them than crop sensors. The corner will always be ground zero for this problem as it is closest to the source.

I wouldn't let the prospect of the D600's oil deter anyone from purchasing it. It seems to be a fantastic body and is an incredible value for the price. I would consider picking up one myself; but, I have already decided that my D700 is going to be replaced by two bodies: a D3s and a D800e. My friends will be much happier when I stop mooching their bodies off them. Ironically, the D3s will be my "everyday" camera and the D800e will be what I pull out for critical work.

Of course when using a high megapixel camera like the D800, the irony is that I'd be less likely than ever to have issues with oil and dust as you have to keep a large apature due to diffraction. C'est la vie.
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Old 01-18-2013, 05:53 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMasterMatt View Post
All of the full frame Nikon models have had reports of oil on the sensor. Using a search engine of choice, search for the camera model and "oil on sensor" and you will get results. The first full frame (FX) out of the box, D3, was where it first got reported in earnest. Thom Hogan even pointed out in his D3s review that it will sprayed.

I've used each of the models (D3, D3x, D3s, D700, D800e - I haven't played with a D600 yet) at one point or another and they all have had some issue with oil. The only variable is how much oil and how often. My trusty D700 just had its original shutter replaced and even with the new shutter, I get some oil on the sensor. I do think it's less than the original shutter; but, it still happens.

Here's the catch though - all cameras get oil thrown around inside. Even film. With a film camera, the issue only impacted one frame at a time. With digital, the sensor stays in place and will accumulate dust and oil over time.

Canon bodies aren't immune to this either. Do a search for any of their 5D family and oil on the sensor and you will get hits as well.

A full frame sensor is simply going to pick up more junk than a crop sensor because there is so much more footprint for debris to land on and the edges of sensor are much closer to the edges of the mirror box.

Obviously, the D600 has many reports of this problem. Is this due to a "defect", is this due to the large number of D600s sold verus other models, or is it due those with D600 are passionate enthusiasts that perhaps are posting online more than say, a D3x owner? My guess is that it's likely a bit of all the above. Nikon is stepping in and offering a "solution" to the issue; but, I think the false expectation is being set if anyone thinks that the oil problem will ever be resolved in total. A device that can move mass around at 1/8000 of a second will always be suspect to throw debris around inside the chassis. Larger sensors will always be more prone to have the debris land on them than crop sensors. The corner will always be ground zero for this problem as it is closest to the source.

I wouldn't let the prospect of the D600's oil deter anyone from purchasing it. It seems to be a fantastic body and is an incredible value for the price. I would consider picking up one myself; but, I have already decided that my D700 is going to be replaced by two bodies: a D3s and a D800e. My friends will be much happier when I stop mooching their bodies off them. Ironically, the D3s will be my "everyday" camera and the D800e will be what I pull out for critical work.

Of course when using a high megapixel camera like the D800, the irony is that I'd be less likely than ever to have issues with oil and dust as you have to keep a large apature due to diffraction. C'est la vie.
Nice post Matt...
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:26 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JediMasterMatt View Post
All of the full frame Nikon models have had reports of oil on the sensor. Using a search engine of choice, search for the camera model and "oil on sensor" and you will get results. The first full frame (FX) out of the box, D3, was where it first got reported in earnest. Thom Hogan even pointed out in his D3s review that it will sprayed.

I've used each of the models (D3, D3x, D3s, D700, D800e - I haven't played with a D600 yet) at one point or another and they all have had some issue with oil. The only variable is how much oil and how often. My trusty D700 just had its original shutter replaced and even with the new shutter, I get some oil on the sensor. I do think it's less than the original shutter; but, it still happens.

Here's the catch though - all cameras get oil thrown around inside. Even film. With a film camera, the issue only impacted one frame at a time. With digital, the sensor stays in place and will accumulate dust and oil over time.

Canon bodies aren't immune to this either. Do a search for any of their 5D family and oil on the sensor and you will get hits as well.

A full frame sensor is simply going to pick up more junk than a crop sensor because there is so much more footprint for debris to land on and the edges of sensor are much closer to the edges of the mirror box.

Obviously, the D600 has many reports of this problem. Is this due to a "defect", is this due to the large number of D600s sold verus other models, or is it due those with D600 are passionate enthusiasts that perhaps are posting online more than say, a D3x owner? My guess is that it's likely a bit of all the above. Nikon is stepping in and offering a "solution" to the issue; but, I think the false expectation is being set if anyone thinks that the oil problem will ever be resolved in total. A device that can move mass around at 1/8000 of a second will always be suspect to throw debris around inside the chassis. Larger sensors will always be more prone to have the debris land on them than crop sensors. The corner will always be ground zero for this problem as it is closest to the source.

I wouldn't let the prospect of the D600's oil deter anyone from purchasing it. It seems to be a fantastic body and is an incredible value for the price. I would consider picking up one myself; but, I have already decided that my D700 is going to be replaced by two bodies: a D3s and a D800e. My friends will be much happier when I stop mooching their bodies off them. Ironically, the D3s will be my "everyday" camera and the D800e will be what I pull out for critical work.

Of course when using a high megapixel camera like the D800, the irony is that I'd be less likely than ever to have issues with oil and dust as you have to keep a large apature due to diffraction. C'est la vie.
Even on the Nikon boards where a lot of full frame users go, there has never been this kind of issue that has gotten this much attention. I don't ever recall seeing this issue pop up anywhere after the D700 was released and that camera had a lot of non pros jump to it from the D300, D200, D90 and D80.

There are other users out there tracking serial numbers of the D600 and it is crazy how many from different lots have the same issue. This goes way beyond any issue the other FF bodies have had combined.
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:24 PM   #21
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I still can't believe that this would be common on FF cameras. I just cleaned the sensor for the 3rd time in a month. It's definitely oil and not just dust because it is pretty tough to get off. The rocket blower doesn't get much off. For my upcoming WDW trip I'll have to order another bottle of Eclipse.

How many of you carry a bottle of sensor cleaning fluid in your camera bag? I never did till now.
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:08 AM   #22
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I believe this to be a model specific issue. I don't think that every FX camera has it as bad as the D600 seems to.
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Old 01-20-2013, 08:25 AM   #23
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If you search for ANYTHING on Google, you will find results. I could start a thread here that I own a new breed of winged dogs that spits fire. That should not be construed as making it true.

Instead of doing a simple Google search, seeing forum results, and assuming all FX cameras have the same problem, I'd suggest actually reading some non-forum posts on this issue. The LensRental articles would be a good place to start. The issues with the D600 are the most serious I've heard of any camera having.
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:16 PM   #24
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Ugh. DH just ordered this camera today. Now I'm less than excited. He claims he researched (I typically do our camera research) and he had it ordered before I even knew what model he was getting.
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:52 PM   #25
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Just make sure you order some swabs and cleaning fluid like Eclipse. I have cleaned mine 4 times so far. I don't mind cleaning but I hate removing spots in PP especially when there are plenty of spots.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:53 PM   #26
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Ugh. DH just ordered this camera today. Now I'm less than excited. He claims he researched (I typically do our camera research) and he had it ordered before I even knew what model he was getting.
If you ordered today from a big retailer that cycles through inventory, you probably won't even have this issue.

Even if you do, this is still an awesome camera.
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Old 01-31-2013, 09:06 AM   #27
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We ordered from amazon. It will be here tonight. So they have corrected the issue with newer bodies?
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Old 01-31-2013, 09:44 AM   #28
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Tom said that they fixed the problem but from what I read on the DPReview forums lately is that people are getting their cameras back from Nikon and the problem continues.
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:42 PM   #29
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Tom said that they fixed the problem but from what I read on the DPReview forums lately is that people are getting their cameras back from Nikon and the problem continues.
Really?! That's disappointing.

Someone on NikonRumors said there was a fix that involved adjusting the way the mirror moved. I can't find a link now, but that was about a month ago. If there are still problems, either that wasn't true, or the Nikon techs making the fixes aren't doing something right.
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:58 PM   #30
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Tom, I dont know. People on Flickr and DPREVIEW who are just getting their cameras back are still getting the oil/dust.

I just sold my body this morning and shipped it off. Maybe next time Nikon!!!!
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