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Old 01-08-2013, 11:08 AM   #61
JennaDeeDooDah
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To be fair, Ohio State was also undefeated


Here's how I see it and no, there is no way to prove that I am right. However, yes, Notre Dame was undefeated. Big deal. They squeeked past Pitt in overtime. It is also noteworthy that during this overtime, Pitt missed the game winning field goal while Notre Dame had 12 men on the field, but it was never called. It took overtime to beat Stanford. Sure, they beat Oklahoma, but A&M proved that isn't some colossal task. Notre Dame was good, but they weren't one of the top two teams in the country. My prediction? Put them in the SEC, Big 12, or PAC and they wouldn't have been undefeated. Shoot, in the SEC, they would have had 2-3 losses and possibly more depending on who they played out of division. But, again, no way to know for sure. I would like to see them continue to climb and get better, but this was not the year for them to be National Champions and most people knew that.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:12 AM   #62
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Saying their schedule "wasn't as strong" is a HUGE understatement.

DH is very happy to see the Irish getting their butts kicked. They don't deserve to be in this game.
Notre Dame had a higher strength of schedule this season then Bama did.

http://bcscentral.info/sos.html
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:26 AM   #63
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Notre Dame had a higher strength of schedule this season then Bama did.

http://bcscentral.info/sos.html
\
Try this chart instead: http://www.gberatings.com/sos/

On strength of schedule: ND: #11, Alabama: #36.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:28 AM   #64
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Instead of making the Championship game in early January, why not move it until the week before the SuperBowl? There's no football that weekend anyway so make it a big game Sunday night? That would also allow more lead time for more playoff games.

And yes, ND was overrated. Alabama is an incredibly good team but they did have a loss & played some teams closer than they played ND last night.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:30 AM   #65
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\
Try this chart instead: http://www.gberatings.com/sos/

On strength of schedule: ND: #11, Alabama: #36.

Who is GBE?
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:33 AM   #66
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Who is GBE?
I'm not sure. I did a search for strength of schedule and that was one that came up. The link earlier has the teams ranked by BCS standings, I don't see how it was ranked via schedule.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:34 AM   #67
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I'm not sure. I did a search for strength of schedule and that was one that came up. The link earlier has the teams ranked by BCS standings, I don't see how it was ranked via schedule.
The columns that followed after showed the different computer strength of schedule rankings used by the BCS and then an average.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:37 AM   #68
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Take away last night's game they played against each other, and Bama played 3 games against teams in the Sagarin Top 10. Notre Dame played 1 (Stanford).

Bama played 5 games against the Sagarin Top 30, and Notre Dame played 4.

Bama's Sagarin strength of schedule is 19, and Notre Dame's is 21.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt12.htm

Each team's SOS was good. To poo-poo either one is misplaced, IMHO.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:54 AM   #69
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Rubbish. They were the only undefeated team in the country, with impressive wins against Stanford, Oklahoma, and USC. Until Oregon and K. State lost, ND was on the outside looking in so clearly the media had no impact on their going to the title game. They clearly deserved to be in the game but were just dominated by a semi-pro NFL team. No shame in losing to that Alabama team.
I think that there are two issues here (and that most are confusing the issues):

1. Did ND deserve to be in the BCS Title game?
2. Is ND one of the top two teams in NCAA division I?

The answer to issue number one is yes. Under the ridiculous, stupid, insulting system in place (the BCS) ND finished in one of the top two spots as determined by the BCS standings. Of course, finishing undefeated according to poll voters and the computers is given great weight. ND had an excellent season and won every game, but finishing undefeated was a result of being a quality team, with a favorable schedule and an incredible amount of luck (see Stanford and Pitt games.)

The computers also give great weight to having no losses. Further, margin of victory is not factored by the computers (per the BCS requirements.) Alabama crushed, embarrassed and demoralized Michigan to start the season. A few weeks later ND beat Michigan 13-6. The computers do not make any distinction - a win is a win.

Finishing undefeated is given too much deference. Can anyone say, based on what we have seen, that ND would have been undefeated playing in the SEC? Consider South Carolina's October schedule:

October 6: Georgia
October 13: at LSU
October 20: at Florida

There is not a team in the country that could win all three. By the Florida game Carolina was beat up and Florida rolled. I do not think that ND would have won any of those games. Did you see the ND defensive lineman by the third quarter? Beat up and exhausted. Can you imagine if next week they had to travel to LSU or Florida?

Until the BCS is changed (and there will be some improvement with the four team playoff) we will continue to get games that do not involve the best teams. Instead, we will get teams that finish in the BCS top two by way of a flawed qualification system.

The answer to number two is no. No way, no how is ND a top two or even top five team. It is fair to say that on a neutral field the following teams are better: Alabama, Oregon, Georgia, Florida, Texas A&M, South Carolina, LSU, and Stanford. Florida State, Clemson and Kansas State are close.

To the poster above, the wins against Stanford, Oklahoma and Southern Cal were far from impressive. The Stanford game went to OT and the officials failed to give Stanford a touchdown when the runner crossed the line. Oklahoma was an excellent road win though their defense is terrible. Southern Cal? By the ND game they had quit and played without their top quarterback. Yes, these games look great according to the computers but under the eye test the wins are not so impressive.

ND had a great season. If it comforts ND fans to say that they "deserved" to be in the championship game then I will not argue. As long as they agree that the methodology of selecting the top two teams is seriously flawed.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:02 PM   #70
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The computers also give great weight to having no losses. Further, margin of victory is not factored by the computers (per the BCS requirements.) Alabama crushed, embarrassed and demoralized Michigan to start the season. A few weeks later ND beat Michigan 13-6. The computers do not make any distinction - a win is a win.
Didn't Boise St (I think) go undefeated a couple years ago but still not make it into a BCS game? I also don't know if you can fully compare the first game of the season with one a couple weeks later. Teams make the most improvement between the first and second week (I think I've heard that somewhere). So, did Michigan get better? Did ND "overlook" Michigan because Bama walked all over them?

I will agree the BCS system is flawed. BUT, IMO, it is still better than the "voting" system that was in place beforehand. The best solution is a playoff. We're getting there.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:06 PM   #71
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the methodology of selecting the top two teams is seriously flawed.
I dont understand how it's so hard to put in a real playoff. I get that you can't have 65 (or more now) like in bball, but you should be able to do something with more than the 4 teams that they'll have in the near future.

Take some of those crap bowl games that nobody cares about and make them part of the play off.

You should be able to at least take the top 8 teams -- meaning 3 rounds of games.

Play the 1st round games (using this season as an example) Dec 21st/22nd
The 4 winners then play the 2 semi - finals games on Dec 29th
The final game could then have still been played last night.

You could easily add a weeks worth of games and make it a top 16 if you wanted and just drop a game from the regular season (when most of the big schools are playing some directional or DII school you've never heard of) and go back to 11 games like it was a few years ago.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:17 PM   #72
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I dont understand how it's so hard to put in a real playoff. I get that you can't have 65 (or more now) like in bball, but you should be able to do something with more than the 4 teams that they'll have in the near future.

Take some of those crap bowl games that nobody cares about and make them part of the play off.

You should be able to at least take the top 8 teams -- meaning 3 rounds of games.

Play the 1st round games (using this season as an example) Dec 21st/22nd
The 4 winners then play the 2 semi - finals games on Dec 29th
The final game could then have still been played last night.

You could easily add a weeks worth of games and make it a top 16 if you wanted and just drop a game from the regular season (when most of the big schools are playing some directional or DII school you've never heard of) and go back to 11 games like it was a few years ago.
The reasons for maintaining the current system are many - and ridiculous. Anyone interested should read the book "Death to the BCS" by Dan Wetzel. His articles on Yahoo Sports are also informative. The bottom line is that greed and corruption keep the current system in place.

To me, it is simple. There are 11 major football conferences. The winner of each conference gets a bid with five at-large teams selected by a committee (just like the basketball tournament.) The field could be expanded to 18 (with two play-in games) if necessary.

Under this format every team has a shot. Teams will schedule stronger out of conference games to build a resume and non-conference losses do not affect a team's ability to win the conference bid.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:21 PM   #73
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It's not hard to do. There are just a lot of people and entities with a vested interest in maintaining the bowl system as long as possible.

I recommend Dan Wetzel's excellent book Death to the BCS for an eye-opening read on the subject.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:25 PM   #74
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Didn't Boise St (I think) go undefeated a couple years ago but still not make it into a BCS game? I also don't know if you can fully compare the first game of the season with one a couple weeks later. Teams make the most improvement between the first and second week (I think I've heard that somewhere). So, did Michigan get better? Did ND "overlook" Michigan because Bama walked all over them?

I will agree the BCS system is flawed. BUT, IMO, it is still better than the "voting" system that was in place beforehand. The best solution is a playoff. We're getting there.
You are correct on Boise State. However voters are unlikely to put a non-BCS conference team in the championship game.

I understand that teams improve. But under that standard Notre Dame, Michigan and Alabama all improved after the first game. Of course there are many factors that determine winning and losing. ND may have had a bad day against Michigan. But you cannot overlook that Alabama completely demolished Michigan. That was no fluke and Michigan did not simply have a bad day. The point is that the BCS computers made no distinction - except for the fact that ND got to play Michigan in South Bend and Alabama played Michigan at a neutral site.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:28 PM   #75
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These kids are also students.
So are basketball players & they play normally 2 games a week & a student on a team that makes it to the Final Four is going to miss a lot of school as well.
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