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Old 01-08-2013, 11:49 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by kwelch10377 View Post
...they had gotten into a fight about how instead of staying home and helping clean the house and spend time with the kids he was going to his parents to watch the Steelers game.
WOW, if this doesn't show how it takes two to tango, and how both parties are usually at fault... OMG!!!!

So, if she doesn't want him to have some guy-time and go watch the game, it is okay to make her expectations/demands known, and get into an argument in front of visiting friends, and the kids... that's okay?

Turn the tables, and it isn't okay for him to do the same to her, and let her know that he doesn't want her to be taking off for girl-time. (and 'the house is a mess'... 'the kids', yada yada yada....)

If this doesn't describe a very nasty and co-dependent relationship, then I don't know what would.

Her husband is not just a jerk, he has serious issues.
And, there seem to be some real issues on her part as well.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:03 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Social Worker Sue View Post
Itís insensitive to say somebody is being manipulative?

And, mental illness or not, it is VERY manipulative to pick and choose when you are going to treat your spouse with respect.

Going out of town for something you donít enjoy? Yay. Hubby isnít going to give you a difficult time. He is going to do a great job as a father, because wife isn't having fun at her current location.

Going out of town to do something that you enjoy? Boo! Hubby is going to be depressed and have a difficult time watching his own children. And be natsy to wife. How dare she enjoy herself!

That is what I saw when I read Betsy82ís post when she said: .."but he was fine. That was most probably because I wasn't away by choice, and certainly not somewhere I wanted to be."


I deal with people like this all day. I know the intensity of mental illness. I lived it with my own mother. I know it destroys and hurts families. I also know people who are mentally ill are very good at manipulating other people.

You donít get a free pass to play Head Games just because you are mentally ill.
Of course it is manipulative. What I said was your comment was insensitive. Huge difference there.

And please, I have a black belt in counter manipulation tactics.

Here is the bottom line though.....

Since the issue of mental illness is at play here, that is not something you play games with. You are not being very wise to play games and put your children in the middle of that mess.

If the OP's friend chooses that life for herself, she has to go out of her way to make sure she can do the things for herself. It is just how it is.

Does it suck, yes. It is manipulative on her DH's part? Yes. However staying home fuels the manipulator. You have to be able to stand on your own 2 feet when your spouse is down for the count no matter WHAT the reason is.

The dh is manipulating her and she has to do counter manipulation. Which means figure out how to make things work without the dh's help.

That is not a life I would choose but some people do.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:36 PM   #63
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Let me explain.

My friends want me to do things with them. If I say I just don't 'feel' like doing something they will spend countless hours trying to 'convince' me that I really should do it. Sometimes it's just easier to say you 'can't' do something rather than you don't 'want' to do something.

It's simple really. I would hazard a guess that everyone has done it at one time or another.

I believe, though, that you are purposely trying not to understand this.
I've absolutely done this as well. Sometimes it is just easier to say you can't...it also may hurt less feelings than saying to don't want to do some activity with your friends.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:41 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Wishing on a star View Post
WOW, if this doesn't show how it takes two to tango, and how both parties are usually at fault... OMG!!!!

So, if she doesn't want him to have some guy-time and go watch the game, it is okay to make her expectations/demands known, and get into an argument in front of visiting friends, and the kids... that's okay?

Turn the tables, and it isn't okay for him to do the same to her, and let her know that he doesn't want her to be taking off for girl-time. (and 'the house is a mess'... 'the kids', yada yada yada....)

If this doesn't describe a very nasty and co-dependent relationship, then I don't know what would.

Her husband is not just a jerk, he has serious issues.
And, there seem to be some real issues on her part as well.
Not sure why you are under the assumption that she said he couldn't go, because she actually didn't. He had been working overnights for the past 2 months and has hardly seen his children and this was the first weekend that they were back to normal. She had asked that he spend some time with them in the morning before the game and maybe take them to breakfast or even kill 2 birds with one stone and work with them to clean up their rooms (spend time with them and help clean their rooms) He choose to sleep until 11:30 instead of spending time with his kids. She never even called him selfish, he did that himself.

When he is on his meds they have a pretty good relationship and it isn't nasty and co-dependent, so don't make assumptions and jump to a conclusion about a relationship that you actual have VERY little insight into.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:42 PM   #65
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I do know all the details I need to know to know that she isn't using him as an excuse. #1 I was at their house several days after Christmas and saw first hand how much of a jerk he was being and honestly I wasn't totally surprised that he pulled this. #2 We are very close and do share a lot with each other so if she just didn't want to go or if she didn't have the money she would be honest and up front about it. I do also know her husband pretty well without her having to tell me certain things.

Someone mentioned that maybe she doesn't want to go, well considering that she was the one who came up with the idea of us all going I am pretty sure that isn't the case. She has been excited about it for over a month and in talking to her she is upset about not being able to go, especially since this is the first time in quite a few years that we have all been able to see each other at once.
Sometimes I get really excited about an idea and suggest it to my friends and as the time draws closer to actually going, I realize that while it sounded fun in theory, now that the time has arrived I'm hesitant to go for one reason or another...

Maybe that's the case here too?
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:45 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by frndshpcptn View Post
Sometimes I get really excited about an idea and suggest it to my friends and as the time draws closer to actually going, I realize that while it sounded fun in theory, now that the time has arrived I'm hesitant to go for one reason or another...

Maybe that's the case here too?
Again as I have pointed out, my friend and I are very close and if she changed her mind about going for one reason or another she would tell me, not to mention I have actually spoken to her and she is upset about not being able to go.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:55 PM   #67
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I guess I dont know how simply saying "I dont want to go" is stretching it into a production? I am positive that creating a lie and involving your wife is a bit more of a production

As soon as you say "I don;t want to go, then the conversation begins. Really?? why not?? Don't you like us anymore? We used to have so much fun... Is it your husband?? Ever since you got married and had kids....etc etc. I had this conversation 2 dozen times with co-workers, old high school friends etc. They are actually insulted that you have moved on with your life.



How kind of you to say that about yourself. Yet you cant tell your friends the simple truth of why you dont want to do something? That's not very honest, Bob.
And yet it is what many if not most people do every day. Little white lies meant to save the feelings of others. Gee I would love to go out with you and the office gang for drinks but my wife has dinner ready..... They can make it seem as if the decision is off their back entirely, and they would love to do whatever it is , if they could.
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:01 PM   #68
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Again as I have pointed out, my friend and I are very close and if she changed her mind about going for one reason or another she would tell me, not to mention I have actually spoken to her and she is upset about not being able to go.
Or maybe she is just saying she is upset about not being able to go and doesn't want to tell you that she changed her mind (for whatever reason), since it was her idea in the first place?
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:03 PM   #69
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And yet it is what many if not most people do every day. Little white lies meant to save the feelings of others. Gee I would love to go out with you and the office gang for drinks but my wife has dinner ready..... They can make it seem as if the decision is off their back entirely, and they would love to do whatever it is , if they could.
I just did this exact thing last week with a group of my co-workers.
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:08 PM   #70
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I've absolutely done this as well. Sometimes it is just easier to say you can't...it also may hurt less feelings than saying to don't want to do some activity with your friends.
I've done it too, quite often in fact, and sometimes DH isn't my excuse, DS is. "Oh, I'd love to come for dinner, but DS has a Scout campout. It sounds like fun, maybe next time!"

I neglect to mention that I'm not going on the campout, I am selfishly wanting to stay home in my empty, quiet house while I have the opportunity.
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:11 PM   #71
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Or maybe she is just saying she is upset about not being able to go and doesn't want to tell you that she changed her mind (for whatever reason), since it was her idea in the first place?
I'm not sure why you seem to want to make it out like she changed her mind and just doesn't want to tell me. That may be how you are with friends when you change your mind or don't want to do something, but her and I are very up front and honest with each other.
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:14 PM   #72
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I'm not sure why you seem to want to make it out like she changed her mind and just doesn't want to tell me. That may be how you are with friends when you change your mind or don't want to do something, but her and I are very up front and honest with each other.
Does that mean you have told her about this thread discussing the details of her life and family?
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:17 PM   #73
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Does that mean you have told her about this thread discussing the details of her life and family?
The funny thing is, if I did tell her, her response would be if they had any good advice. She honestly wouldn't care.

ETA - I think should would also find some of the comments pretty funny.
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:20 PM   #74
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Maybe with her DH being off his meds she doesn't want to leave the kids alone with him.
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:21 PM   #75
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Sorry, OP...
I based my comments on the specific info in your original post. Nothing more.. Nothing less.... No assumptions at all. They 'argued', she didn't want him to go...
(They obviously would never have gotten into a real argument if she had said... "OKAY, see you later... hope your team wins!")

Now you say he had been working a lot of night hours.
Most of us know what this kind of schedule, along with the unavoidable lack of good regular sleep, can do to one's psychological and emotional health.

We have already mentioned how it might have been unrealistic, given the current circumstances, for her to believe that she could plan a weekend get-away and leave him home with the kids.

Was it really a good and realistic thing to expect, under the current circumstances, that he would get up early, go for brunch, play with the kids, and clean the house, whistling while he works???

She is trying to control things into the way she sees them and wants them, probably almost as much as he is.

Unrealistic expectations will end up in disappointment.

I know that this is a friend of yours. I can see that you have now gone into 'defend my friend' mode.

But, really... it looks like she is living in a a world where what she thinks is right, what she thinks he can do/give, and what she expects are not lined up with reality.
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