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Old 01-08-2013, 11:15 AM   #151
RadioNate
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This is a lot. I'm going to comment below. Full disclosure. My husband did cheat, that is no secret around here and while it's been 2 years since I found out and divorced I'm not completely healed. Believe me, I don't want him but in general I'm not real trusting and tend to lean toward the "bitter" side still.


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Originally Posted by VeganCupcake View Post
Hi everyone.
So a little update, now that I'm calm. cool, and somewhat collected. Although now that I said that this post is going to be completely random thoughts that I just need to get out so I may still seem nutty. I also have horrible grammar, and this is more of a "I have to say this random crap or I will explode" post. I read everyone's responses, and I appreciate all of them.

Before I post anything else I just want to say- I am not a wishful thinker. In fact I usually am a pessimist. None of this is being said because I wish it was so, it's being said because it is so.

I've Checked his phones several times throughout the last 2 nights(while he was sleeping)
no phone calls from anyone I don't know
no texts from anyone I don't know
no emails from anyone I don't know(checked deleted emails as well)
obviously he could erase before going to bed, but I don't think so, only because he hasn't had his phones near him and he has been falling asleep and going straight to bed, way before me and hasn't been being weird with his phones. Also looking back at the text carefully, the text had been sent 3 days before I saw it, and since that time, there was no other contact on the phone or email to or from that person. Also, using her name and other random things I had heard about her, I shamelessly found out info on her online, and I feel like such a mean girl for just coming out and saying this, but there is no way. I know age is just a number, but sometimes it does matter. This is one of those incidents.

My ex deleted each call/text as the came in. Please long into your carriers site and look at the record there. In most cases it is easy to delete individual texts/calls/emails. Also look for accounts you didn't know exist. Like a new gmail account. Twice gmail was my exs downfall. (yes he cheated 2x. The 1st was supposedly just "inappropriate" emails etc w/his college girlfriend so I forgave that....3 years later it was MUCH more w/a coworker.)

1. He knows that my dad's neighbor works at the gym. Sorry I didn't mention this in my last post, I was writing fast and was upset. He probably wouldn't think she would say anything if he was flirting, but knows she definitely would if she saw him doing something physical. We had gotten in a fight about it, because he said he had done cardio with her, but never said she asked how I was doing, which is kinda weird right? If she really knew who he was like he insisted she did, she would ask about how me and our son were doing. This is because even though he knew who she was, she did not at first know he was my dad's SIL. I asked my dad to just mention to his neighbor "oh I heard you see my son in law at the gym all the time" she had no idea that he was who he was. (Does this make sense) I just needed someone at that gym to know that he was married and also to know to "be on the lookout". Immature, maybe. Do I care? No. There are too many dangers when it comes to spouses not being monogamous. I am not going to be a statistic.

I'm going to call YOU out on this red flag. If you felt the need to have someone "check up on him" before this incident you are either acting 1) insecure or 2) being controlling. Neither of which are good for the marriage. Before you get bent out of shape on my comments keep reading. In my marriage, I was both. This is something that I'm working on. That said, I did have reason to be and generally I think the "no one knows he is married" attitude he has helps fuel your insecurity. You are insecure because of his attitude, scared he "might" cheat, so you try to manage and control the situation. This is no way to live. You can't control him. No amount of "checking up," eyes at the gym, eyes at work will stop him if he wants to cheat. I'm sorry. I wasn't going to be a statistic either. I wasn't going to be divorced, PERIOD. My parents were divorced and I wasn't going to do that to my children. Yeah, that worked out well. No court in the country is going to require people to stay married if one wants out. Again, I'm sorry.

2. I asked SM to talk to go through the conversation with her neighbor(who would ahve no reason at all to lie) with me again(sometimes when you are mad, you hear things differently then how they are actually being said) the convo went something like this
R-(neighbor)- Are O and your daughter still together?
SM- yes
R-really?(looked shocked & sounded surprised)
SM- yeah why?
R- then said he never wears a ring, no one knows he is married, I have people come up and ask me all the time if he is married and I say "yes to my neighbors daughter" . He doesn't act like he is married when he is at the gym.

This no one knows he is married has caused many many many fights in our relationship. He'll tell me about how someone said something to him(more than once) about taking their daughter(16!!!) on a date because she had a crush on him from seeing him at the gym(being serious, people are weird, if I saw DH talking to my 16 year old daughter I'd lock her up just based on his looks alone) and he tells me his response is "that's not even legal" or something around those lines. There are other examples of things like this, where someone says something inappropriate and instead of saying "I'm married" he says anything but. He says I just want him to introduce himself as "hi my name is this and I'm married" yes idiot, that is what I want you to do***sarcasm***. If you are working out with someone for more than 15 minutes and having a conversation about things other than working out at some point you think it would come up that you are married. Some people enjoy flirting, there is nothing you can do about how other people act towards you, but you are responsible for 1.leading them on 2.respecting your spouse. I'm not saying I want him to wear a shirt with my face on it that say's "I'm married to this woman" , but I deserve to feel like I exist outside of our home. Does anyone have a similar experience to something like this? I would love to hear about it. Maybe I am petty, IDK.

First, YOU ARE NOT PETTY. NOT at all. People who are in good marriages. People who are happy to be there and respect and love their spouse. People know they are married. It just comes up in conversation. Kids, spouses, significant others, nothing dramatic but it comes up in a matter of fact way. The fact that he doesn't ever really mention it is a HUGE red flag.

This is the biggest thing and I really would suggest marriage counseling because this will continue to cause problems. I think (and I've only had A LOT of my own therapy and read a lot of books) this is part of why you act insecure. You are not petty or crazy or anything of the sort for wanting your husband to publicly acknowledge your marriage.



The never wearing a ring thing, there is a good explanation for- a.he's lost about 50-75 pounds since we've been married, the ring is super loose and would very easily fly off with sweat, I know this and agree with it. He asked me not to wear my rings to the gym after one of them fell off from sweat(we don't go to the same gym I go across the street to a tiny tiny gym maybe like 2-3 times a month when I feel bloated like that does anything) b. He boxes so obviously wearing a ring while shadow boxing of hitting a heavy bag is not smart.

3. The only time he is not at home is 5-7am at the gym 8-5 at work 5:30-7:30ish gym again. Now, He could very well not be going to the gym. However, every time he comes home he smells like he's been working out, and his clothes and socks are drenched in sweat. He did work out this much when I met him(I had hoped once we had a child he would stay at home more but whatever- some of you may remember my 1950's thread) He was always super overweight growing up, and has lost 50-75 since we've been married, and around 100 total since we have been together. Now what I am about to say may offend some people so sorry ahead of time. You know how some people(not all and not most), when they have been heavy for most of their lives lose a lot of weight, and then become obsessive and annoying about anything that has to do with keeping the weight off? I'm not talking about making healthy choices I'm talking about obsessive behaviors and annoying and self righteous(not proud- you should be proud for losing weight, you don't need to be arrogant about it) about it? This is him. He is constantly complaining about the way this looks or that looks. Even when we go up to Disney for only 3 days, he will spend 3 hours of one or two of those days traveling to and from the la fitness up there to work out. It is to the point where I was thinking he had a problem, body dsymorphic disorder?? IDK. So the being at the gym so much makes sense for his personality.

The gym thing is unusual. I get that it "makes sense" but it isn't normal or healthy behavior. I'm going to very much echo what a PP said. He likely still sees himself as "fat" and is seeking physical validation from others. That is a significant weight loss. If he is arrogant about it, like you say, he could be holding some resentment if you haven't "kept up" the way has he. I completely understand that isn't fair AT ALL to you and that it SHOULDN'T be that way. But if he is as obsessive as you say it COULD be.

4. I know he is at work because he works with his family, and right up the road, he knows that I can pop in anytime I was and frequently invites me to do so. He also calls the house a million and one times throughout the day from the shop's phone. * see number 5

5. He calls me throughout the day. to the point of it being an aggravation, but I never really complain because I should be happy he wants to talk right? He calls me on his way home from the gym in the am, on his way to work his way from work to the gym, and on the way home from the gym. It has always been like this.

Neither of these send up HUGE red flags to me unless he is "checking up" on you or accusing you of cheating, etc.

6. I don't really know how to say this so I will say it very carefully. I always think for a guy to stop wanting to have intimate time with their spouse is one of the first signs something is off. He has never stopped acting like a rabbit.

If we are being TMI. This is a frequent myth about cheating. That the intimate time with the spouse stops. I can tell you that mine didn't and from talking to other's who have been through it, there's did not either. In some cases it increases.

7. Seeing how upset I was about the texting, he offered to cancel his gym membership. now, he could have just been offering to make it seem like this or that, but I said yes do that then and he has just been working out in our garage since yesterday morning. That's only 3 workouts he's given up at the gym, but it is something.

I'm 50/50 on this one. It seems manipltitive. It depends how the offer was made. A frustrated "fine, I'll just quit the gym since you don't trust me." Is far different from an "I'm sorry if the texts made you uncomfortable, what can we do together to help you feel more comfortable."

8. He goes to 3 different gyms(he goes to which ever one is not having a class in the aerobics room when he will be there as he skips rope and needs the room to himself) My Cousin and Uncle both go to one of the gyms that he goes to(he knows they go there though) and always tell me or my dad how he just works out like a lunatic whenever they see him. I'm going to call Cousin today and see what she says. (I feel like I'm in high school)

I don't really know why I felt the need to post all of this random stuff, but I know I feel better for doing so, thanks if you are still reading my crazy. I am going to try and get more detailed info from Dad's neighbor, and will continue to check phones. I am also going to try and log into the La Fitness website, as they keep logs of when you go to what gym. What should be my next step? Any more ideas? You all have been so helpful.


Read Disney Doll's post. Keep being smart. If I were you, knowing what I know now, I would get into couples counseling asap and work towards strengthening your marriage. There are at least "yellow" flags coming from both sides. Use this as a wake up call and a lesson to change what isn't working in your marriage and strengthen what is working.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:22 AM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadioNate View Post
This is a lot. I'm going to comment below. Full disclosure. My husband did cheat, that is no secret around here and while it's been 2 years since I found out and divorced I'm not completely healed. Believe me, I don't want him but in general I'm not real trusting and tend to lean toward the "bitter" side still.




Read Disney Doll's post. Keep being smart. If I were you, knowing what I know now, I would get into couples counseling asap and work towards strengthening your marriage. There are at least "yellow" flags coming from both sides. Use this as a wake up call and a lesson to change what isn't working in your marriage and strengthen what is working.
Great advice!
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:37 AM   #153
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Great advice!
Thanks.

I wanted to add that I don't think the voice activated recorder is a bad idea. Once I was "onto" the affair my exDH had a burner cel phone so they could communicate. Before that it was a gmail and gchat account. He lied to cover his tracks. I think people, when they want to believe that things will be ok underestimate the amount of lying the spouse is willing to do. I think I'm actually MORE appalled by that than I am the actual physical affair, that becomes secondary to the complete betrayal of trust. That I know there were entire days that when I asked "how was work" I got COMPLETE lies because he didn't even go to work.

I also want to caution anyone against thinking that if people knew he was married he couldn't cheat. While I do see it as a red flag in his behavior. BOTH my ex's affair partners knew he was married. The second one was married herself. He also wore a ring. Didn't matter.

As a single person I am hit on ALL THE TIME by married men. Men who sob story their "awful" wives. Men who I am friends with their wives. Only once, (as his married friend desperately tried to inappropriately dance w/my friend and I) has a guy said he was married and wasn't comfortable w/the situation.

Lastly, I want to remind the OP that blood is thicker than water. Him working with family means nothing. IF (and I can't say for certain) he is cheating they will side with him. They may not condone his behavior or like it but in the end they will side with him. He will come first. Period. I haven't talked to my former inlaws in nearly 18 months. I was very close to my SIL and we haven't spoken in years. Most of his family unfriended me on FB, little stuff like that. I'm NOT saying anything is going on. Just be aware.

I really do with the OP luck. I hope he isn't cheating. I don't see anything that makes me say yes or no either way. But I do see a relationship that has cracks and I wholeheartedly believe that they can fix them and become stronger.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:47 AM   #154
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I dealt with a similar situation 5 years ago. My husband and I had been married for about 5 years at the time. We had one child, and a very active sex life. I was shocked when my husband came to me one night and told me that he had nearly had an affair. I thought we had a great marriage but it turns out a smokin hot bedroom life doesn't equal a great marriage. He was nearly in tears as he told me about the girl in his office and how what began as innocent flirting became dangerously close to affair territory. He stopped it before it got that far but still I was angry and hurt. We decided that we wanted to save our marriage and began marriage counseling. For us, this was the right decision. We will be married 11 years this spring and we are closer than ever. 6 years ago, we were lovers, but today we are best friends. We talk about everything, spend time together outside the bedroom and we both make our marriage a priority. We stroke each others egos, make the other feel loved and wanted, and help each other with everything. He even does the dishes and helps out around the house just so we have more time together. I am not saying that all marriages can be saved with marriage counseling but ours was. I am just saying if both of you want to save your marriage it's worth a shot. I also want to mention it helped my husband with his own self image issues. He was not overweight but he is and always will be a super smart, kinda geeky computer nerd. Think Leonard from Big Bang theory, lol. So a girl hitting on him, married or not, gave him an ego boost. The counseling helped him deal with his self image stuff. I feel for you and your situation. I hope it can be resolved in a way that makes you happy.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:37 PM   #155
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OP-I think that if you are comfortable then that is fine. I would not be but perhaps we have different expectations from our husband's. If you evaluate every bullet point individually you are right, all is well. Taken all together, if you are satisfied then let it go but please, do yourself a favor and be careful.

Make sure that you have all of your own ducks in a row to make sure that in the event you do find out your husband lied you are not left high and dry. He knows that you are concerned so if this was innocent he will make sure he does not compromise the marriage again. If this was not innocent he knows you found out and may try to continue his behavior more circumspectly and may start to drain your combined finances. Make sure that you monitor all financial transactions and that you have documented your accounts. I would also suggest that you follow other's advice and monitor his calls and texts history online.

My husband never wears a ring, not since we married. He says he wears "married" and I agree. For me, cheating is a deal breaker from which there is no redemption and he know this. I think it is important for people to know what lines are never ever to be crossed and this is one of mine. I wonder if your husband has no idea how fare over your line he has drifted? The behavior is his and the consequences are as well, but I really think that for some people, if the message that they get is that you are willing to overlook some things it is the same thing as permission. For instance, does your husband know what your reaction to an indiscretion will be? My husband and I separated over 10 years ago and he know that if I ever found out that there was any hanky panky going on it was over. He knows that even though we have been back together for a very long time and are a strong couple there is no statute of limitations on this. I would never get over it. He knew this when we decided that we needed to live apart and knew this when we reconciled.

Your husband's flirting is something that you may want to think about. Even if it goes no further than that, is this okay with you? If it is not, why does he still feel free to continue this behavior? This is where your lines come in. I think that is why I feel you really do not want to find out if he has betrayed his vows, you are not ready to make a stand.I am not judging this, I think everyone has the right to their own rule but I believe that if you don't have clear expectations from your husband and he is a man who pushes limits this is going to continue.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:58 PM   #156
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Thanks.

I wanted to add that I don't think the voice activated recorder is a bad idea. Once I was "onto" the affair my exDH had a burner cel phone so they could communicate. Before that it was a gmail and gchat account. He lied to cover his tracks. I think people, when they want to believe that things will be ok underestimate the amount of lying the spouse is willing to do. I think I'm actually MORE appalled by that than I am the actual physical affair, that becomes secondary to the complete betrayal of trust. That I know there were entire days that when I asked "how was work" I got COMPLETE lies because he didn't even go to work.

I also want to caution anyone against thinking that if people knew he was married he couldn't cheat. While I do see it as a red flag in his behavior. BOTH my ex's affair partners knew he was married. The second one was married herself. He also wore a ring. Didn't matter.

As a single person I am hit on ALL THE TIME by married men. Men who sob story their "awful" wives. Men who I am friends with their wives. Only once, (as his married friend desperately tried to inappropriately dance w/my friend and I) has a guy said he was married and wasn't comfortable w/the situation.
Oh I agree, and I can relate. Even if you have a ring on your finger, it doesnt matter. People will hit on you, some dont care that youre married. Some are even more turned on by that little fact! I get hit on by married men, and they dont even hide the fact that theyre married. They dont care, they think we dont care. Its disturbing!! Whats wrong with ppl? Lol.

And yes, the cheater going out of his/her way and lying thru their teeth to cover their tracks is even more appaulling.
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:03 PM   #157
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Without reading the other posts I have two or three theories

1) is the obvious suspicions of cheating
2) is these people work together (my boss will say "You still owe me a date for ____" meaning I owe him an expectation of when I can get ___ done) and either
a) The other person is british and just says love to those they are close to but not necessarily THAT close or
b) The two are close friends and joke around like two of my coworkers that joke the other is their "work spouse" (note that one is engaged to someone else in another department and the other just got married 2 weeks ago, so no they aren't seeing each other like that)
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:06 PM   #158
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OP - the neighbor lady could just be a judgemental busy-body who blows things out of proportion. I've known a few of those. Your husband could be totally oblivious to the attention, and completely be missing the come-ons. I know my husband was like this once upon a time. But I've educated him and now he runs from women who ask him questions in the grocery store.

You know his personality best, but IMHO your update makes it seem like he is just unaware and with the added drama from the neighbor your insecurity is getting the best of you. Hopefully that's all it is. I agree that counseling could help him understand how is actions are being perceived by these women, and how it affects you. Good luck!
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:43 PM   #159
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OP, one quick question...WHY does this strange woman even have your DH's cell phone #? There is no reason for him to be handing it out to women.
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:52 AM   #160
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OP - the neighbor lady could just be a judgemental busy-body who blows things out of proportion. I've known a few of those. Your husband could be totally oblivious to the attention, and completely be missing the come-ons.
I don't think so to the first one(she would have been eager to tell before they were drinking maybe?), and he is so arrogant sometimes he probably thinks people are hitting on him when they are not so there is no way he is oblivious.

Quote:
OP-I think that if you are comfortable then that is fine. I would not be but perhaps we have different expectations from our husband's.
No I'm 100% not ok with the flirting,he knows this, it was our agreement when we got together that these were our expectations of each other, but I am not ready to confront him directly about what dad's neighbor said just yet.

Quote:
I wanted to add that I don't think the voice activated recorder is a bad idea.
I agree with this, can someone explain to me how they work? (we need a detective smilie!)

Quote:
First, YOU ARE NOT PETTY. NOT at all. People who are in good marriages. People who are happy to be there and respect and love their spouse. People know they are married. It just comes up in conversation. Kids, spouses, significant others, nothing dramatic but it comes up in a matter of fact way. The fact that he doesn't ever really mention it is a HUGE red flag.
Thank you! now I know I'm not crazy!

I called my cousin last night and spoke with her about what did she see my DH doing whenever she saw him at her gym. She told me she could 100% say that he is always working out by himself in one of the aerobics rooms or on the racketball courts. She also said though that if he knows she and my uncle work out there then obviously he wouldn't act one way or another. She said that some people know how to get away with cheating and sometimes will lie even if the evidence is brought straight to their face.

Quote:
OP, one quick question...WHY does this strange woman even have your DH's cell phone #? There is no reason for him to be handing it out to women.
I agree, he was going to start training people, because his boxing training is so much different then the typical gym workout people would supposedly ask him if he trained all the time. Seems like he gave his number to this woman for that and worked out with her a few times and never got paid, so I guess he trains people for free? Which is the same as just working out with them(something he would not want me doing).

I am glad I started this thread. It has given me a lot to think about and a lot of good ideas.
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:03 AM   #161
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OMG! Ok this morning he went to the gym, I confronted him he said he's going to the boxing gym(which I would be fine with but don't believe) All of a sudden I had just remembered that he has an old phone here that he doesn't use anymore. I went into it and there are like 20 calls in one day to and from this woman and none of the emails are erased. I'm going to put the phone back where I found it(he has no reason to bring it with him) and look at it more once DS is in school and he is at work. I'm livid!
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:06 AM   #162
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OMG! Ok this morning he went to the gym, I confronted him he said he's going to the boxing gym(which I would be fine with but don't believe) All of a sudden I had just remembered that he has an old phone here that he doesn't use anymore. I went into it and there are like 20 calls in one day to and from this woman and none of the emails are erased. I'm going to put the phone back where I found it(he has no reason to bring it with him) and look at it more once DS is in school and he is at work. I'm livid!
As I've said, I am going through something very similar. I feel for you. I'm so tired of being angry and hurt I can't even tell you!
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:51 AM   #163
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I'm so sorry that you are going through this. I have no advice, but lots of virtual for you.

Vent away! That is what we are here for.
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:24 AM   #164
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OP, it's pretty simple.
Go with your gut.
Protect yourself and prepare.
Don't tip your hand until you have protected yourself and prepared.
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:43 AM   #165
The Mystery Machine
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Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Missouri
Posts: 44,370

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeganCupcake View Post

OMG! Ok this morning he went to the gym, I confronted him he said he's going to the boxing gym(which I would be fine with but don't believe) All of a sudden I had just remembered that he has an old phone here that he doesn't use anymore. I went into it and there are like 20 calls in one day to and from this woman and none of the emails are erased. I'm going to put the phone back where I found it(he has no reason to bring it with him) and look at it more once DS is in school and he is at work. I'm livid!
Well, just take it moment by moment and at this point as DDoll says do not tip your hand. Your silence with him is going to be your best asset unfortunately.

Since you say your dh is "arrogant at times" he MIGHT actually do things in order to entice you to continue to snoop and then get a kick out of denying it.

It is like a game of cat and mouse.

Remember when someone is cheating they have played "getting caught" in their minds many times, preparing themselves, unlike you who would be in shock that this is happening.

I hope that the emails are not about him cheating. Fingers crossed here for you.
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