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Old 01-07-2014, 04:14 PM   #241
lockedoutlogic
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Originally Posted by Yellowstonetim View Post
Woah! That looks like a whole new technology that would improve on Soarin'! Fascinating! Looks simpler than Soarin' but it may also be able to do more.
Simpler than soarin?

Soarin is pretty simple...actually
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Old 01-07-2014, 04:37 PM   #242
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I disagree, those are pretty complex machines the way they hang the seats for boarding and then swing upward with each set of seats taking a different attitude. I love the tech, the film not so much, so I am craning my neck the whole time watching the machine work.

At least according to this drawing, there must be an arm to move the section of seats, but the whole section and floor can be fixed and only individual seats change attitude as the whole thing tilts forward. Seems like a big improvement to me and easier entry and exit.

The crux of the ride would be the technology to move the entire section of seats, which, of course, is hidden so we cannot see.

Looks like a new tech is in the works, but we will have to wait and see what it means.

Oh, and the change means the fixed base could be placed on something that moves for an end result like HP only on a bigger scale. All just guessing from a few drawings at this point, but something new at least.
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Old 01-07-2014, 04:49 PM   #243
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Lol...


Guess you're not a fan of the travel channel?
Ten years ago in one of the "Disney behind the scenes" specials...they had the engineer who came up with soarin and his model explain how it worked...
He built the model with a kids erector set in about an Hour one afternoon and it was built with pretty much the same design.

It's just and elaborate pendulum with some hydraulics.

The problem with that type of system and the avatar thing is the capacity. Wdw rides must handle 2500+ an hour to keep up.

That's why soarin's line is forever... Not
Because its awesome... Because there aren't enough seats.
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Old 01-07-2014, 05:14 PM   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic View Post
Lol...


Guess you're not a fan of the travel channel?
Ten years ago in one of the "Disney behind the scenes" specials...they had the engineer who came up with soarin and his model explain how it worked...
He built the model with a kids erector set in about an Hour one afternoon and it was built with pretty much the same design.

It's just and elaborate pendulum with some hydraulics.

The problem with that type of system and the avatar thing is the capacity. Wdw rides must handle 2500+ an hour to keep up.

That's why soarin's line is forever... Not
Because its awesome... Because there aren't enough seats.
Yes I have seen it and it is simple in principle but not so much in execution, and it is limited in capacity. Note that the illustrated machine is even simpler with a static platform and may have a higher capacity. Of course whatever might be unique and special would be hidden on purpose. But intriguing anyway.
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Old 01-07-2014, 08:15 PM   #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellowstonetim View Post
Woah! That looks like a whole new technology that would improve on Soarin'! Fascinating! Looks simpler than Soarin' but it may also be able to do more.
~Yes, I agree. The design is 'simple' but at the same time more complex. I'm excited because this design concept has the potential to deliver some serious thrills. In contrast, Soarin' has a more complex design but delivers a much more 'simpler' experience. Soarin' is relatively mild -- there is virtually no thrill aspect. But, it will always be a favorite of mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lockedoutlogic View Post
Lol...


Guess you're not a fan of the travel channel?
Ten years ago in one of the "Disney behind the scenes" specials...they had the engineer who came up with soarin and his model explain how it worked...
He built the model with a kids erector set in about an Hour one afternoon and it was built with pretty much the same design.

It's just and elaborate pendulum with some hydraulics.

The problem with that type of system and the avatar thing is the capacity. Wdw rides must handle 2500+ an hour to keep up.

That's why soarin's line is forever... Not
Because its awesome... Because there aren't enough seats.
~LOL. I don't know if you go to Chuck E. Cheese, but there is a bike and when you pedal -- it goes way up in the air. Likewise, once you stop pedaling it goes down. Every time I ride Soarin', it feels just like someone is in a back room "pedaling" for the ride to move.
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Old 01-07-2014, 09:04 PM   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellowstonetim View Post
Yes I have seen it and it is simple in principle but not so much in execution, and it is limited in capacity. Note that the illustrated machine is even simpler with a static platform and may have a higher capacity. Of course whatever might be unique and special would be hidden on purpose. But intriguing anyway.
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Old 01-07-2014, 09:39 PM   #247
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I believe the E ticket will be somewhat similar to the ride system from vekoma called I ride

Which is soarin 2.0 much better than original and with 3D
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Old 01-07-2014, 09:42 PM   #248
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Actually its called Panoramic Flight Simulator
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Old 01-08-2014, 09:01 AM   #249
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And while we speculate about the breakthrough "soar and swoop" technology Disney will use for the dreamed-for "Pandora e-ticket," Universal has already been there and done that:



Which means if Avatar actually opens (which is projected for 2017, but given Disney's and Cameron's history is more realistically 2019+) Universal will still be three steps ahead of whatever the imagineers come up with and what Disney can afford.

On that latter tangent, those assuming Disney is ready to plow massive capital into Avatar would be well served to read the below article by Al Lutz. It's a eye-opening assessment of the financial black hole Magic+ has become and how that is already leading to serious belt tightening across the entire Parks and Resorts operation:

http://micechat.com/49401-my-magic-plus-failure/
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Old 01-08-2014, 09:16 AM   #250
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And while we speculate about the breakthrough "soar and swoop" technology Disney will use for the dreamed-for "Pandora e-ticket," Universal has already been there and done that: Which means if Avatar actually opens (which is projected for 2017, but given Disney's and Cameron's history is more realistically 2019+) Universal will still be three steps ahead of whatever the imagineers come up with and what Disney can afford. On that latter tangent, those assuming Disney is ready to plow massive capital into Avatar would be well served to read the below article by Al Lutz. It's a eye-opening assessment of the financial black hole Magic+ has become and how that is already leading to serious belt tightening across the entire Parks and Resorts operation: http://micechat.com/49401-my-magic-plus-failure/
And if Disney doesn't use this already developed technology they will be fine. I don't think Disney will use universal technology if they did that then they wouldn't be gaining anything on universal. With Joe Rohde and James Cameron working on this together I don't see them using something already done by universal. But of course we will have to wait and see Micechat is not always very accurate with their rumors. They said lord of the rings was coming to Disney which I don't see happening they've also said some other questionable things in the last as well.
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Old 01-08-2014, 09:52 AM   #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Borishack View Post
And while we speculate about the breakthrough "soar and swoop" technology Disney will use for the dreamed-for "Pandora e-ticket," Universal has already been there and done that:

Which means if Avatar actually opens (which is projected for 2017, but given Disney's and Cameron's history is more realistically 2019+) Universal will still be three steps ahead of whatever the imagineers come up with and what Disney can afford.

On that latter tangent, those assuming Disney is ready to plow massive capital into Avatar would be well served to read the below article by Al Lutz. It's a eye-opening assessment of the financial black hole Magic+ has become and how that is already leading to serious belt tightening across the entire Parks and Resorts operation:

http://micechat.com/49401-my-magic-plus-failure/
And of course you assume the worst of Disney and ignore the differences in the technology. Universal's machine is limited to 4 people. Very small. Now imagine that on a much large scale, and with better designed technology learned from experience, including HP.

You could give Disney the benefit of the doubt, but of course you won't, because it is Disney, so it HAS to be wrong/bad/stupid/only for money.
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"Remember, no matter where you go... there you are!" Buckaroo Banzai

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Old 01-08-2014, 10:57 AM   #252
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. Universal's machine is limited to 4 people. Very small.
It appears you may not fully understand their "machine." So let's engage in some theme park technology 101. Specifically, one of the most critical rules, which is the law of capacity (number of guests the attraction can handle per hour). The cardinal rule there is the highest capacity attractions employ continuous moving belt technology: think Haunted Mansion.

That is why Universal smartly designed Harry Potter to use that approach: a continuously moving busbar belt, but one that goes far beyond the HM. HP's "very small" four person ride vehicles are each mounted on KUKA robotic arms. As each unit travels through the attraction, it encounters a mix of massive animatronic sets and multiple huge wrap around screens, where the action of the robotic arm is coordinated with the imagery/routines.

And what Universal developed is actually superior to the "batch" technology (think: Soarin' or Star Tours) you are enamored with on two levels : not just higher guests-per-hour capacity, but also better viewing.

For on you mass "batch" seating approach, you run the risk of having someone in front of you obstructing your view (which is why many people are so focused on getting the front center row on Soarin'.).

On Harry Potter EVERYONE gets the front center row.
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Old 01-08-2014, 12:29 PM   #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Borishack View Post
It appears you may not fully understand their "machine." So let's engage in some theme park technology 101. Specifically, one of the most critical rules, which is the law of capacity (number of guests the attraction can handle per hour). The cardinal rule there is the highest capacity attractions employ continuous moving belt technology: think Haunted Mansion. That is why Universal smartly designed Harry Potter to use that approach: a continuously moving busbar belt, but one that goes far beyond the HM. HP's "very small" four person ride vehicles are each mounted on KUKA robotic arms. As each unit travels through the attraction, it encounters a mix of massive animatronic sets and multiple huge wrap around screens, where the action of the robotic arm is coordinated with the imagery/routines. And what Universal developed is actually superior to the "batch" technology (think: Soarin' or Star Tours) you are enamored with on two levels : not just higher guests-per-hour capacity, but also better viewing. For on you mass "batch" seating approach, you run the risk of having someone in front of you obstructing your view (which is why many people are so focused on getting the front center row on Soarin'.). On Harry Potter EVERYONE gets the front center row.
But that doesn't mean Disney won't or can't do better or develop something entirely new. Disney isn't going to copy what universal does they wouldn't draw crowds away then.
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Old 01-08-2014, 12:55 PM   #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Borishack View Post
It appears you may not fully understand their "machine." So let's engage in some theme park technology 101. Specifically, one of the most critical rules, which is the law of capacity (number of guests the attraction can handle per hour). The cardinal rule there is the highest capacity attractions employ continuous moving belt technology: think Haunted Mansion.

That is why Universal smartly designed Harry Potter to use that approach: a continuously moving busbar belt, but one that goes far beyond the HM. HP's "very small" four person ride vehicles are each mounted on KUKA robotic arms. As each unit travels through the attraction, it encounters a mix of massive animatronic sets and multiple huge wrap around screens, where the action of the robotic arm is coordinated with the imagery/routines.

And what Universal developed is actually superior to the "batch" technology (think: Soarin' or Star Tours) you are enamored with on two levels : not just higher guests-per-hour capacity, but also better viewing.

For on you mass "batch" seating approach, you run the risk of having someone in front of you obstructing your view (which is why many people are so focused on getting the front center row on Soarin'.).

On Harry Potter EVERYONE gets the front center row.
I know perfectly well how it works.

Yes they get front row seat... for a few seconds until it has to move on. Then you get walls and dungeons and other things until you get to the next screen and get so many seconds before you move on.

Don't get me wrong, it is an awesome ride, but there are tradeoffs. In Soarin you get one long experience in front of that screen which can be larger. In HP you get a set of shorter moving experiences. More visceral but also shorter.

Now if Disney can, as those pictures imply, create a Soarin with no feet in the way and provide more movement all while getting one long experience. Then they will have HP beat.

But of course Disney can't possibly do anything right. I bow before the superior intellect, Kahn.
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"Remember, no matter where you go... there you are!" Buckaroo Banzai

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Old 01-08-2014, 02:25 PM   #255
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But that doesn't mean Disney won't or can't do better or develop something entirely new. Disney isn't going to copy what universal does they wouldn't draw crowds away then.
Yes, Disney conceptually could do something ground breaking. My point is their history over the last seven years or so has not been one of technological attraction innovation.

In addition, doing something "better and entirely new" is going to require a lot of capital, which per my prior link is not something Mr. Iger is presently willing to provide to attraction development at WDW.

Frankly, the article I referenced really underscores the strategic issue at Parks and Resorts right now: management is focused too little on customer experience and too much on trying to use technology in (what I feel is a futile attempt) to keep parks continually at 100% capacity and influence guest spending.

But I digress. The core point is the biggest obstacle to "Pandora land" isn't anything I or the others who aren't thrilled with it say. Again, it's the Magic+ debacle sucking all the oxygen away from capital investment in the parks. And with all due respect, trying to diminish that point that by saying "Lutz isn't always right" is wishful spin - he is just reporting the facts on this one.

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Originally Posted by Yellowstonetim View Post
I know perfectly well how it works.
Don't get me wrong, it is an awesome ride, but there are tradeoffs. In Soarin you get one long experience in front of that screen which can be larger. In HP you get a set of shorter moving experiences. More visceral but also shorter.
A matter of taste. The HM and POC are considered dark ride masterpieces; both basically do precisely what you critique HP for (series of vignettes).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellowstonetim View Post
Now if Disney can, as those pictures imply, create a Soarin with no feet in the way and provide more movement all while getting one long experience. Then they will have HP beat.
Two issues: first, implying a single "IMAX" formatted journey is inherently superior to "visceral, shorter experiences" (Soarin' by the way is a series of short vignettes, not a single seamless flight) . Again, that's a matter of taste. Second, regarding "no feet in the way," the pictures of the ride technology on this thread show a typical theatre batch seating structure, ergo seats in consecutive rows. That means one can potentially experience obstruction if you aren't in front, as well as the fact many people inherently get frustrated if they can't get seats towards the center. I suspect an appreciation of those exact issues is what drove Universal to take the "everyone is up front" approach they did with HP.

Last point: the Pandora gang here (excepting rteetz) seem to assume the e-ticket is going to be an extension of Soarin' technology. In other words, not a completely new theme park technology, but an enhancement of an existing one.

Per my earlier point, if that is the plan (which we don't know, all the "Soarin phase II" discussion here is based on assumptions) Disney will still be behind firms that have a mindset to go beyond just enhancement.
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